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Religion Pell Guilty!
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Interested in knowing why the convicted pedo walked free. Anyone else would have gone straight to the jug. It's not as if any of this wasn't known for some time.
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Cancelled
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Gold class.
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Kudos to Jules, our last decent PM, who got the ball rolling.
cartwright
Brownlow Medallist
Maggie5
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Kudos to The Guardian's reporting. Another good article.
From another article for those that doubt the objectivity of the jury...
A new jury needed to be selected for the retrial, which began in November. As with the first trial, journalists watched via videolink from a courtroom on the third floor as 250 would-be jurors crowded into a room on the lower level of the county court.
The unusually large group was called because there were fears that so many people would have biases towards or against the Catholic church that finding non-prejudiced jurors would be difficult.
While only 12 jurors can decide a verdict, 14 were chosen in case any dropped out owing to illness or for other reasons, with two to be balloted off come the deliberations.
Pell had the right to challenge up to three jurors as their numbers were pulled out of a ballot box and their occupations read out. He challenged none. Nine men and five women were sworn in, among them a church pastor, a mathematician, a chef and a schoolteacher.
Kidd repeatedly told the jury he would give no hints as to the verdict they should return, and that they were not to make Pell a scapegoat for the church’s failings. Pell was at a significant disadvantage, he told them, owing to the decades that had passed and the fact he could not gather evidence from witnesses when their memories were more sound.
“You alone are the judges in this case,” he told the jurors. “It is not my responsibility to decide this case. That is your role. The verdict you return has nothing to do with me. You are not bound by any comments I make about the facts. Do not look to me for hints. I won’t give you any.”
He urged jurors to go home each night and clear their heads, he wished them restful weekends, and he acknowledged the gravity of the task they had randomly been assigned.
After three and a half days, word came that the jurors were done. A couple of dozen people filed into the courtroom. After months, a clear outcome appeared to have been reached.
On the surface, Pell’s legal team looked relaxed as they took their seats at the bar table. Minutes later, it was hard for the defence barrister, Robert Richter QC, to conceal his shock as his client was found guilty of one count of sexually penetrating a 13-year-old boy and four counts of sexually assaulting two 13-year-old boys.
Richter’s confident demeanour evaporated. His voice barely rose above a whisper as he discussed bail requirements and a sentencing date with the judge.
From another article for those that doubt the objectivity of the jury...
A new jury needed to be selected for the retrial, which began in November. As with the first trial, journalists watched via videolink from a courtroom on the third floor as 250 would-be jurors crowded into a room on the lower level of the county court.
The unusually large group was called because there were fears that so many people would have biases towards or against the Catholic church that finding non-prejudiced jurors would be difficult.
While only 12 jurors can decide a verdict, 14 were chosen in case any dropped out owing to illness or for other reasons, with two to be balloted off come the deliberations.
Pell had the right to challenge up to three jurors as their numbers were pulled out of a ballot box and their occupations read out. He challenged none. Nine men and five women were sworn in, among them a church pastor, a mathematician, a chef and a schoolteacher.
Kidd repeatedly told the jury he would give no hints as to the verdict they should return, and that they were not to make Pell a scapegoat for the church’s failings. Pell was at a significant disadvantage, he told them, owing to the decades that had passed and the fact he could not gather evidence from witnesses when their memories were more sound.
“You alone are the judges in this case,” he told the jurors. “It is not my responsibility to decide this case. That is your role. The verdict you return has nothing to do with me. You are not bound by any comments I make about the facts. Do not look to me for hints. I won’t give you any.”
He urged jurors to go home each night and clear their heads, he wished them restful weekends, and he acknowledged the gravity of the task they had randomly been assigned.
After three and a half days, word came that the jurors were done. A couple of dozen people filed into the courtroom. After months, a clear outcome appeared to have been reached.
On the surface, Pell’s legal team looked relaxed as they took their seats at the bar table. Minutes later, it was hard for the defence barrister, Robert Richter QC, to conceal his shock as his client was found guilty of one count of sexually penetrating a 13-year-old boy and four counts of sexually assaulting two 13-year-old boys.
Richter’s confident demeanour evaporated. His voice barely rose above a whisper as he discussed bail requirements and a sentencing date with the judge.
People who doubt the objectivity and competence of a jury has no idea how stringent the jury selection process is for criminal cases. In fact, they would have very little knowledge of our legal process in general
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Did they - been a fever dream of rumours in William Street - sorry
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Similarly the stories I've heard from people who have had brief interactions with him paint him as a massive pompous arrogant d-bag, so I'm surprised he not only had people presumably cover up for him, but also managed to keep rising through the ranks with this hanging over his head. I wonder how many favors he may have been extorted out of.
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He always came off as being humourless on the ABC, but for some reason the conservative types loved him for it.
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Not sure if posted yet, but Vatican has released a statement:
Have to laugh at the last sentence. Apparently it takes someone being convicted of child molestation to get the Catholic church to take "precautionary measures" regarding child safety.
A Cut Above
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Power corrupts. You need only hear Pell speak for a few seconds to hear the clear authoritarian tone in his voice, which suggests he knows exactly how powerful he is (was?) and has come to think of himself as untouchable. Countless powerful men throughout history have fallen into the same trap.
- Feb 6, 2013
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Personally I am a fan of Frank Herbert's take on this:
“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”
Bolt did run with something like “the accuser was looking for a scapegoat to blame for another trauma he suffered in life.”
It’s an incredible skill to keep lowering the bar like he does.
- Feb 14, 2002
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A skill of which Pell found himself totally incapable.
Crankyhawk
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And that in itself may be a point brought in an appeal - I suspect your views are shared by many and could this be argued as prejudiced jury?
So the church promoted him to the Vatican while they knew charges would be brought?
Incredible
Incredible
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see thus is tje irony when you have catholic centres like phillipines wjere there are extreme amounts of unnessecary births due to them bejng anti contraception and nothing is done to stop sex despite it aupposedly being a sin
its that arrogance and pompous that makes we wonder about this entire case, I never liked the bloke for those reasons...the logical side of me wonders if it were possible for a priest to shove his penis in a boys mouth so randomly and in such a space where someone might walk in. Think about it for a few mins and ask if it really adds up. Two boys wonder out the back, Pell appears, touches them up, then they leave, meanwhile there's probably a throng of people that could easily walk in.
I don't know..the first jury couldn't reach a verdict.
Assuming it happened, two people would have a clear memory of the incident, and Pell would have had many incidents to remember. The complainant has the best memory, because of its devastating effect.
Other witnesses (who weren’t eye witnesses) probably couldn’t be sure they even were there that day
Other witnesses (who weren’t eye witnesses) probably couldn’t be sure they even were there that day
Im not overly familiar of the jury process so can I ask when juries take time out to deliberate are they allowed to consult the judge for points of clarification etc on evidence?
Oh dear
- Aug 2, 2012
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No worries.
The prosecution applied for the blanket suppression order because they were worried that publicity might stymie the second (swimming pool) trial, and Kidd agreed.
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