Religion Pell Guilty!

[Gough]

And the fall is complete, prisoner Pell.

 

[GuruJane]

You do know Pell has been accused multiple times of sexual assault? The vast majority of those accusations have not been sustained to conviction - quite rightly - but in the instance where enough evidence was obtained, a conviction was recorded.

It isn't like the matters he's been found guilty of are a single lone instance of him being accused of such behaviour.

it doesn't fit the pedo profile - the grooming, the nurturing, the winning of confidence of the child, the grooming of their parents the subtle manipulation of the family
the pedos follow this rulebook because they figure to act intemperantly in public as Pell did is just too risky.
Safer and easier to nurture a relationship.
That's what makes them so insidious.

so little evidence of the other past allegations they got thrown out at committal.
However now that Pell has been convicted it is unlikely to have been a oncer - more allegations of your monster Pell's coercive rapes of minors should surface in near future.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Well read it again, because you are misquoting me. I did not say the 4 victims who had their testimonies upheld were lying.

You’ve also stated that there’s no way Pell could’ve committed those crimes. If I’ve misquoted you I apologise, it doesn’t change the fact I think you’re ignorant and guilty of sweeping things under the rug. It also doesn’t mean because in that case they were not guilty that in the Pell case they’re lying.

 

[giggler99]

She knows him ‘slightly’. Cute.

Divine “I don’t believe Pell who I know slightly and admire greatly could be guilty of sexual assaulting two Chairboys in a busy cathedral after Sunday mass!” What an ignorant stupid statement.

Yeah let’s just ignore all the evidence and victim statements and the jury’s Virdict all because it happened after Sunday Mass!

Surely Bolt and Divine can’t go any lower with their stupid dinosaur concervative views, both should be on the brink of irrelevancey. I for one will not watch or read anything from these two again! (Not that I really did in the past through)

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Divine “I don’t believe Pell who I know slightly and admire greatly could be guilty of two sexual assaulting two Chairboys in a busy cathedral after Sunday mass!” What an ignorant stupid statement.

Yeah let’s just ignore all the evidence and victim statements and the jury’s Virdict all because it happened after church!

Surely Bolt and Divine can’t go any lower with their stupid dinosaur concervative views, both should be on the brink of irrelevancey. I for one will not watch or read anything from these two again! (Not that I really did in the past through)

I’ll just put it this way, what if a Muslim was up in front of a judge and jury convicted of multiple underage sexual assaults? What if it was a Muslim teacher? I’d challenge either to actually uphold the same position. I’d put my life on the fact it would be different.

 

[Craven Morehead]

it doesn't fit the pedo profile - the grooming, the nurturing, the winning of confidence of the child, the grooming of their parents the subtle manipulation of the family
the pedos follow this rulebook because they figure to act intemperantly in public as Pell did is just too risky.
Safer and easier to nurture a relationship.
That's what makes them so insidious.

so little evidence of the other past allegations they got thrown out at committal.
However now that Pell has been convicted it is unlikely to have been a oncer - more allegations of your monster Pell's coercive rapes of minors should surface in near future.

I can assure you that so called Ministers of the Cloth at religious boarding schools did no such grooming etc. There was no rulebook.
They had the power, the privacy and the privilege and took opportunities, with whoever, as they arose.
Pell's case, where he held the ultimate power, within the inner sanctum of a cathedral is no different.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

Divine “I don’t believe Pell who I know slightly and admire greatly could be guilty of sexual assaulting two Chairboys in a busy cathedral after Sunday mass!” What an ignorant stupid statement.

Yeah let’s just ignore all the evidence and victim statements and the jury’s Virdict all because it happened after church!

Surely Bolt and Divine can’t go any lower with their stupid dinosaur concervative views, both should be on the brink of irrelevancey. I for one will not watch or read anything from these two again! (Not that I really did in the past through)

Oh and to answer your question, they can and will.

 

[Gough]

Divine “I don’t believe Pell who I know slightly and admire greatly could be guilty of sexual assaulting two Chairboys in a busy cathedral after Sunday mass!” What an ignorant stupid statement.

Yeah let’s just ignore all the evidence and victim statements and the jury’s Virdict all because it happened after church!

Surely Bolt and Divine can’t go any lower with their stupid dinosaur concervative views, both should be on the brink of irrelevancey. I for one will not watch or read anything from these two again! (Not that I really did in the past through)

It must be a bizarre world to live where a convicted nonce is innocent and Safe Schools is a threat to the kiddos.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

It must be a bizarre world to live where a convicted nonce is innocent and Safe Schools is a threat to the kiddos.

Occupational hazard of the bigot - paranoia

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

You’ve also stated that there’s no way Pell could’ve committed those crimes. If I’ve misquoted you I apologise, it doesn’t change the fact I think you’re ignorant and guilty of sweeping things under the rug. It also doesn’t mean because in that case they were not guilty that in the Pell case they’re lying.

I have not said that it does. I was responding (I think) to the suggestion that accusers never have a motivation to lie and demonstrating that occasionally they do. I have never swept anything under a rug. As to being ignorant, I don't know. I do know that for reasons listed earlier, the circumstances resulting in Pell's conviction are so unlikely as to (by themselves) create reasonable doubt and I am hopeful that the Supreme Court agrees.

I don't share Gough's view that accused people should go to gaol just because society thinks they are a campaigner.

 

[Del191229]

The reaction of Bolt and his ilk just confirm they are some of the most radical people in this country, happy to tear down institutions to suit their own agendas. That they seem to think they are speaking for some sort of silent majority is just point and laugh territory.

The Victorian election should have addressed the "silent majority agree with Murdoch hystericism" line but that was immediately dismissed by their High Priest/King Howard because "Victoria is the Massachusetts of Australia".

It will take the upcoming federal wipeout to make it clear.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

I was there for the prosecution closing and for the verdict. And I have been an altar boy at St Pats in the past.

This verdict won't survive an appeal. Absolutely no chance.

Hate the guy all you like, and I do understand why some do, although I don't share that view of him.

But he didn't do this, and couldn't have done it. And the jury heard at least a dozen altar boys and/or choirboys say exactly that.

Which is why it won't survive an appeal.

But Pell will go inside tomorrow. And will stay there until an appeal is decided.

This is my understanding too. Whilst I want all the perpetrators of these crimes dealt with severely I don't believe Pell is one of them. I could be wrong but from what I know of him and what I have been told he has done more than most behind the scenes to clean up the rot in the catholic church. I don't really like him so I am not biased from that point of view. As for Rome protecting him, forget it, they have hung him out to dry, he is a convenient high profile scapegoat for them.

 

[Craven Morehead]

I have not said that it does. I was responding (I think) to the suggestion that accusers never have a motivation to lie and demonstrating that occasionally they do. I have never swept anything under a rug. As to being ignorant, I don't know. I do know that for reasons listed earlier, the circumstances resulting in Pell's conviction are so unlikely as to (by themselves) create reasonable doubt and I am hopeful that the Supreme Court agrees.

I don't share Gough's view that accused people should go to gaol just because society thinks they are a campaigner.

Again, what you conveniently overlook, is that the 'plausible explanations in your head', don't add up with the accepted evidence which found him guilty.
I ask again, how did the witness know the intricacies of a room within the Cathedral which you claim to be always locked?

 

[Del191229]

This post ignores such accusations as "He (Pell) witnessed me being r*ped from the doorway" when Pell was somewhere in Europe and "He (Pell) stated loudly that Ridsdale's been rooting boys again" when Pell hadn't officiated in any ceremonies in that church that year and "Pell played with my old fella in a cinema when (whatever movie it was) was screening at Ballarat" when that movie hadn't been released in Ballarat at that time.

No it DIRECTLY addresses those.

People made those accusations - and Pell wasn't charged, let alone taken to trial let alone convicted on their strength. That is the system working.

But the other accusations made about the rape in the sacristy were also tested by the same legal system, and found to warrant charges, and prosecution, and conviction.

 

[sherb]

I have not said that it does. I was responding (I think) to the suggestion that accusers never have a motivation to lie and demonstrating that occasionally they do. I have never swept anything under a rug. As to being ignorant, I don't know. I do know that for reasons listed earlier, the circumstances resulting in Pell's conviction are so unlikely as to (by themselves) create reasonable doubt and I am hopeful that the Supreme Court agrees.

I don't share Gough's view that accused people should go to gaol just because society thinks they are a campaigner.

In this case you have said the Pell didn't do it and couldn't have done it.

So where does that place the accuser in your eyes?

Is he lying? Is he making all this up? Did he imagine what he said Pell did to him?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I can assure you that so called Ministers of the Cloth at religious boarding schools did no such grooming etc. There was no rulebook.
They had the power, the privacy and the privilege and took opportunities, with whoever, as they arose.
Pell's case, where he held the ultimate power, within the inner sanctum of a cathedral is no different.

You write this as though you have some inner knowledge, and it seems as though you might be talking of a particular Christian Brothers school in Ballarat.

It was revealed to me recently, by someone who would know, that despite Brothers Dowlan and Best (a bigger pair of monsters it would be hard to find) offending at the same time at the same school, that neither knew of the other's offending. I found this revelation staggering, and still find it hard to believe. But the source is a serious one. If that's your point of reference, do you have a view on this?

It's a genuine question.

 

[Del191229]

it doesn't fit the pedo profile - the grooming, the nurturing, the winning of confidence of the child, the grooming of their parents the subtle manipulation of the family
the pedos follow this rulebook because they figure to act intemperantly in public as Pell did is just too risky.
Safer and easier to nurture a relationship.
That's what makes them so insidious.

so little evidence of the other past allegations they got thrown out at committal.
However now that Pell has been convicted it is unlikely to have been a oncer - more allegations of your monster Pell's coercive rapes of minors should surface in near future.

Pell isn't a paedo, he's a child rapist. You're focusing one specific paedo strand. There's actually quite a few, and in reality, Pell fits very comfortably within the Catholic clergy child rape MO.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

I have not said that it does. I was responding (I think) to the suggestion that accusers never have a motivation to lie and demonstrating that occasionally they do. I have never swept anything under a rug. As to being ignorant, I don't know. I do know that for reasons listed earlier, the circumstances resulting in Pell's conviction are so unlikely as to (by themselves) create reasonable doubt and I am hopeful that the Supreme Court agrees.

I don't share Gough's view that accused people should go to gaol just because society thinks they are a campaigner.

Saying that it couldn’t have happened because it was impossible from a circumstantial perspective is a bit rich. He isn’t going to gaol because he is a campaigner, he will go because he is a sex offender

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

In this case you have said the Pell didn't do it and couldn't have done it.

So where does that place the accuser in your eyes?

Is he lying? Is he making all this up? Did he imagine what he said Pell did to him?

I couldn't make a judgement on that without having seen him give evidence. Or at least read the transcript.

 

[Del191229]

You write this as though you have some inner knowledge, and it seems as though you might be talking of a particular Christian Brothers school in Ballarat.

It was revealed to me recently, by someone who would know, that despite Brothers Dowlan and Best (a bigger pair of monsters it would be hard to find) offending at the same time at the same school, that neither knew of the other's offending. I found this revelation staggering, and still find it hard to believe. But the source is a serious one. If that's your point of reference, do you have a view on this?

It's a genuine question.

Why would a person who has publicly told us they were a victim of a child rapist want to give the time of day to you, who on this thread is openly scoffing at the "believability" of someone who was in exactly that same position with Pell.

Jesus and his mother. You and Pell share a very specific emotional blindness.

 

[Len Nicodemo]

You write this as though you have some inner knowledge, and it seems as though you might be talking of a particular Christian Brothers school in Ballarat.

It was revealed to me recently, by someone who would know, that despite Brothers Dowlan and Best (a bigger pair of monsters it would be hard to find) offending at the same time at the same school, that neither knew of the other's offending. I found this revelation staggering, and still find it hard to believe. But the source is a serious one. If that's your point of reference, do you have a view on this?

It's a genuine question.

I think you’ll find his answer interesting.

 

[Del191229]

Also, the whole "journos were surprised!" thing is bullshit.

One of the key journos who covered Rocco Arico's trial, who knows that whole scene inside out, was adamant to me that Rocco would walk.

Rocco got 12 years.

 

[Craven Morehead]

You write this as though you have some inner knowledge, and it seems as though you might be talking of a particular Christian Brothers school in Ballarat.

It was revealed to me recently, by someone who would know, that despite Brothers Dowlan and Best (a bigger pair of monsters it would be hard to find) offending at the same time at the same school, that neither knew of the other's offending. I found this revelation staggering, and still find it hard to believe. But the source is a serious one. If that's your point of reference, do you have a view on this?

It's a genuine question.

My inner knowledge comes from being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of protestant cloth wearers in Qld, and others. So no.
In my case the perps most certainly knew what each other was up to.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Why would a person who has publicly told us they were a victim of a child rapist want to give the time of day to you, who on this thread is openly scoffing at the "believability" of someone who was in exactly that same position with Pell.

Jesus and his mother. You and Pell share a very specific emotional blindness.

I was aware of one poster who had revealed that. I wasn't aware if the one I was responding to had. If that's the case, I am unreservedly sorry.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

My inner knowledge comes from being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of protestant cloth wearers in Qld, and others. So no.
In my case the perps most certainly knew what each other was up to.

Thanks for answering. It was a genuine question and I am sorry if it caused pain. I didn't intend it to.