Science/Environment Phasing out Plastic Packaging

[Lethality]

Plastic packaging is in my opinion becoming more and more egregious, as we face a climate crisis and we have totally valid alternatives.

I've personally found that most plastic packaging is avoidable. For most products that are largely in plastic packaging, there's a paper or cardboard alternative if you are willing to look out for it.

Chocolate mostly comes in soft plastic wrapping which doesn't even get recycled, but you can get cardboard packaged chocolate such as Lindt which is just as good or better. Plus it's cheap.

Toilet paper is still mostly packaged in plastic, but you can get it in paper packaging which works just as well. So once again there's no excuse to buy this product in plastic packaging.

Meat is only plastic packaging at the supermarkets, but you can get it wrapped in paper at the butchers I think. This requires a bit more effort, but it's doable, and you can support small business as well as the environment.

Milk is available in cardboard cartons, no problems. Coke is available in cans.

So what's the solution to put an end to plastic once and for all? Nonplastic packaging seems like the sane choice, so maybe consumers will eventually vote with their feet. Or perhaps we need a law or tax, or other measures to get this the attention it deserves?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Plastic packaging is in my opinion becoming more and more egregious, as we face a climate crisis and we have totally valid alternatives.

I've personally found that most plastic packaging is avoidable. For most products that are largely in plastic packaging, there's a paper or cardboard alternative if you are willing to look out for it.

Chocolate mostly comes in soft plastic wrapping which doesn't even get recycled, but you can get cardboard packaged chocolate such as Lindt which is just as good or better. Plus it's cheap.

Toilet paper is still mostly packaged in plastic, but you can get it in paper packaging which works just as well. So once again there's no excuse to buy this product in plastic packaging.

Meat is only plastic packaging at the supermarkets, but you can get it wrapped in paper at the butchers I think. This requires a bit more effort, but it's doable, and you can support small business as well as the environment.

Milk is available in cardboard cartons, no problems. Coke is available in cans.

So what's the solution to put an end to plastic once and for all? Nonplastic packaging seems like the sane choice, so maybe consumers will eventually vote with their feet. Or perhaps we need a law or tax, or other measures to get this the attention it deserves?

This is actually a really good issue.

Overpackaging if rife in things like food and toys. You don't need a plastic window to see inside a toy box, and a lot of the internal material is about holding it perfectly in the window.

Food also has issues. My fav is individual wrapping for individual biscuits, which are then grouped in a poly bag and then put in a cardboard box.

 

[Scotland]

About time.

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Plastic wrapped fruit-and-veg gives me the shits most of all. So needlessly wasteful.

Some items will be too difficult - meat especially would just get too messy for widespread sale. I expect we'll eventually develop a hybrid approach of reducing where possible, but hopefully also doing better using and conserving recyclable plastics in other cases.

Some of the UK supermarkets have started doing this without government direction, which gives me hope we can eventually do the right thing here. I think the more important role for government would be looking at recycling and the idea of a circular economy for raw materials like cardboard and plastic. Make sure that any work on recycling packaging is for some benefit, and that it doesn't just get dumped overseas or in landfill.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I wonder what they will do with all of those petroleum distillation long chain alkene byproducts now? This is a lot more complex than you think folks.

From an environmental aspect, I would rather have to deal with relatively inert polymers (plastics) than carcinogenic distillation waste.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Problem is you can't use wood or wood derivatives, like cardboard or paper because it would get wet and fall apart.
Also the front would fall off.

Joking aside there will be an need to do away with it. Whats the substitute though?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Problem is you can't use wood or wood derivatives, like cardboard or paper because it would get wet and fall apart.
Also the front would fall off.

Joking aside there will be an need to do away with it. Whats the substitute though?

Some polymers can be created from non petroleum sources, but there's still an environmental cost in their manufacture.

If folks want to see the end of plastics, then they are only being hypocritical if they continue to utilise fossil fuels. The same wastes still pile up.

 

[Scotland]

The biggest problem with plastic is that like most things people don't value it.

Drink your Coke, throw the bottle in the bin, walk away. It all ends up somewhere.

I take my soft plastics back to Coles and put them in the recycling thing there. Good on me, environmental hero etc. I would be surprised if even 1% of people do that

 

[Lethality]

The biggest problem with plastic is that like most things people don't value it.

Drink your Coke, throw the bottle in the bin, walk away. It all ends up somewhere.

I take my soft plastics back to Coles and put them in the recycling thing there. Good on me, environmental hero etc. I would be surprised if even 1% of people do that

I do it but it probably just ends up in landfill. The only way to ensure it doesn't is to not buy it in the first place.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I wonder what they will do with all of those petroleum distillation long chain alkene byproducts now? This is a lot more complex than you think folks.

From an environmental aspect, I would rather have to deal with relatively inert polymers (plastics) than carcinogenic distillation waste.

They won't go away completely. Many metal bottles/cans contain a poly liner inside. Cardboard cartons have a micro film veneer to create a better oxygen seal.

What is achieved though is reducing the material needed

 

[Snake_Baker]

What is achieved though is reducing the material needed

Perhaps needed for plastic, but it doesn't reduce the raw materials.

Long chain alkanes are not freely available in the environment.

 

[Proper Gander]

I would like to see some companies get ahead and give more people options to avoid excessive throw-away.

I live very close to markets so can buy all food other than meat without wrapping - I put all groceries straight into my trolley with wheels thingy.

There is a hippy shop there that does cleaning products. It’s great. I bring along empty hard plastic containers and get them refilled with dishwashing liquid, clothes washing liquid, fabric softener. Cheap too. I haven’t had to buy new containers for that stuff in years.

I would love to see regular supermarkets come up with refill stations for regular cleaning products. Offer a discount to customers who bring back the original container for a refill rather than just throwing away and buying again.

 

[Scotland]

I do it but it probably just ends up in landfill. The only way to ensure it doesn't is to not buy it in the first place.

Those big plastic bags at the front of the store that you put your own plastics in go to Amcor or similar with all the plastic generated by the store itself (a shitload). Exactly what happens after that... not sure.

The other issue facing plastic (and glass, and paper) recycling is that it's a very low value product. You can get a 10c refund on every aluminium can because it's more efficient to recycle them than produce fresh metal from bauxite, but the same can't be said for the others.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Perhaps needed for plastic, but it doesn't reduce the raw materials.

Long chain alkanes are not freely available in the environment.

I don't know much on how each of these is made, but a lot of oil based products have no realistic replacement yet.

There are a number of medical, cosmetic, and food ingredient items that will need to be oil derived for some time

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don't know much on how each of these is made, but a lot of oil based products have no realistic replacement yet.

There are a number of medical, cosmetic, and food ingredient items that will need to be oil derived for some time

Thia is true to some extent, but it's just as much about putting millions of litres of petroleum refinery byproducts to some use.

The "plastic" problem won't end until fossil fuel use ends.

 

[Scotland]

I would like to see some companies get ahead and give more people options to avoid excessive throw-away.

I live very close to markets so can buy all food other than meat without wrapping - I put all groceries straight into my trolley with wheels thingy.

There is a hippy shop there that does cleaning products. It’s great. I bring along empty hard plastic containers and get them refilled with dishwashing liquid, clothes washing liquid, fabric softener. Cheap too. I haven’t had to buy new containers for that stuff in years.

I would love to see regular supermarkets come up with refill stations for regular cleaning products. Offer a discount to customers who bring back the original container for a refill rather than just throwing away and buying again.

Everything old becomes new again.

When my dad was a kid, someone delivered milk to the house. You put the empty glass bottles from the day before outside and the milkman took them with. They were washed and reused at the dairy processor.

Some time between then and my childhood, that changed to buying your milk at the supermarket in a plastic bottle/bardboard carton and then throwing the empty away.

Then people started to think that wasn't the best idea, so the empties went into the recycling.

Now I'm old enough to have young kids and society is obsessed with home delivered everything. Fridge, delivered. Shoes, delivered. McDonald's, delivered. Surely we can't be too far away from the next incarnation of reciprocal arrangements for all the shit that gets delivered.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Thia is true to some extent, but it's just as much about putting millions of litres of petroleum refinery byproducts to some use.

The "plastic" problem won't end until fossil fuel use ends.

Don't disagree, but I think the move to EV and or hydrogen will work with that

 

[Proper Gander]

Everything old becomes new again.

When my dad was a kid, someone delivered milk to the house. You put the empty glass bottles from the day before outside and the milkman took them with. They were washed and reused at the dairy processor.

Some time between then and my childhood, that changed to buying your milk at the supermarket in a plastic bottle/bardboard carton and then throwing the empty away.

Then people started to think that wasn't the best idea, so the empties went into the recycling.

Now I'm old enough to have young kids and society is obsessed with home delivered everything. Fridge, delivered. Shoes, delivered. McDonald's, delivered. Surely we can't be too far away from the next incarnation of reciprocal arrangements for all the sh*t that gets delivered.

When I was a kid we left bottles out for the milkman to be collected and reused.

I don’t blame people today for buying the convenience items with their throwaway packaging, but I wish we could give more people a choice. My shopping practices of avoiding throwaway excess are only possible because of where I live. It would be great to see some big companies with broader reach allow more people the choice

 

[Scotland]

When I was a kid we left bottles out for the milkman to be collected and reused.

I don’t blame people today for buying the convenience items with their throwaway packaging, but I wish we could give more people a choice. My shopping practices of avoiding throwaway excess are only possible because of where I live. It would be great to see some big companies with broader reach allow more people the choice

I had a fun size packet of Maltesers at work today. 6 Maltesers in it, I counted every last one. What a ****ing waste of a piece of packaging.

 

[Proper Gander]

I had a fun size packet of Maltesers at work today. 6 Maltesers in it, I counted every last one. What a ******* waste of a piece of packaging.

Yeah that ‘fun size’ lark should be done away with

 

[Lethality]

I would love to see regular supermarkets come up with refill stations for regular cleaning products. Offer a discount to customers who bring back the original container for a refill rather than just throwing away and buying again.

There's a Woolworths over in Moonee Ponds that is trialling this.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Everything old becomes new again.

When my dad was a kid, someone delivered milk to the house. You put the empty glass bottles from the day before outside and the milkman took them with. They were washed and reused at the dairy processor.

Some time between then and my childhood, that changed to buying your milk at the supermarket in a plastic bottle/bardboard carton and then throwing the empty away.

Then people started to think that wasn't the best idea, so the empties went into the recycling.

Now I'm old enough to have young kids and society is obsessed with home delivered everything. Fridge, delivered. Shoes, delivered. McDonald's, delivered. Surely we can't be too far away from the next incarnation of reciprocal arrangements for all the sh*t that gets delivered.

The issue of milk bottles is collection, it's a logistical nightmare to do cost effectively.

It used to work because labour was.cheap and dairies were local.

 

[Scotland]

The issue of milk bottles is collection, it's a logistical nightmare to do cost effectively.

It used to work because labour was.cheap and dairies were local.

We went from buying everything from Westfield centres to having everything delivered.

In terms of something like milk all the bottles still go from the dairy to the shop and then the truck goes back with the empty crates from the day before, so there's some degree of back and forth. I'm a firm believer that supermarkets should be a lot more two way. Take your plastic, glass, whatever there and then it can go back from a central point.

 

[CheapCharlie]

There is an Australian company making biopolymer packaging and bags (secos ASX:SES). There must be a lot of money to be made in this area for the companies that can bring a cost effective product to market.

Some of these bags are designed to be put in the green waste collection bins and are certified to break down in "municipal aerobic composting facilities"

Those particular bags are labelled bioplastics so Im not sure of how that all works

 

[Borough Blood]

Australia is miles behind in recycling flexibles. RedCycle can only do so much and it appears to have a horribly low usage rate. Our infrastructure needs to catch up as they aren’t going away.