Pick 14

[Frigate]

Yeah, I remember the Rich & Hill arguments. There's a similar one with Harvey and Smart over Fyfe and Bastinac too.



That's true but I think a lot of people are on the hill bandwagon because of family sentiment, not necessarily WAFL associations. There's a lot of upside to Hill and that's what you're banking on - his potential.

As for Jordan Clarke I wrote this elsewhere.
Clark's progression in the WAFL is what you want to see for a WA player. Play Colts > Selected U/18's > Was consistent in the championships > All Australian selection > Reserves > League team selection for Claremont. Plus I lose my shit for players with poise and an ability to read the play. He just doesnt have much upside from an athletic standpoint.

I personally, don't mind both I just think Ian Hill could be Jarrod Pickett - a kid who dominated when given time and space, a luxury you don't get in AFL these days.

I agree, you know more than me! I think Clarke is first pick (only on what I read here) - I know nothing. Then it is Hill. No name sentiment. From phantom drafts though, Clarke will not be there at 14 though.

 

[Chris25]

Natural forwards with skills are always useful. Bit of a concern with the speed test though. Does he "play quicker" than his test results though?

I was a tad surprised by Smallwood’s testing. He’s not some super athlete playing football, but he tested slower than I expected. I do think he plays faster though. Michael Walters tested even slower.

If you’re looking at small forwards later in the draft, I’d back him over someone with nothing but speed to offer.

 

[Joao]

I was a tad surprised by Smallwood’s testing. He’s not some super athlete playing football, but he tested slower than I expected. I do think he plays faster though. Michael Walters tested even slower.

If you’re looking at small forwards later in the draft, I’d back him over someone with nothing but speed to offer.

Fair enough. If he is smart he will appear quicker. As you say, Sonny never looks like a liability in the forward half.

Definitely not against it, I think we can find a place but we'd have to be wary who else we put up forward with him.

 

[eastfreo75]

I was a tad surprised by Smallwood’s testing. He’s not some super athlete playing football, but he tested slower than I expected. I do think he plays faster though. Michael Walters tested even slower.

If you’re looking at small forwards later in the draft, I’d back him over someone with nothing but speed to offer.

Testing doesn't include quick thinking, poise, technique, decision making and awareness.

What have seen of Smallwood he has the above in shades.

 

[Taylor]

The testing does include a cognitive reflex test.

 

[eastfreo75]

The testing does include a cognitive reflex test.

can you say more about that?

 

[Taylor]

can you say more about that?

It's basically a test of a board of buttons that light up in a seemingly random order (but it isn't) and the person being tested is measured on how long it takes them to identify which is lit up and press the button.

 

[eastfreo75]

It's basically a test of a board of buttons that light up in a seemingly random order (but it isn't) and the person being tested is measured on how long it takes them to identify which is lit up and press the button.

how do you rate the test?

 

[Taylor]

how do you rate the test?

It's a fancy what-a-gator game, I should say it's an eye-to brain-to hand reflex test. I don't have data on correlation between a low reflex time and a fast handball (or otherwise reaction) time but I would expect the athletes who score well on that test to appear to react faster to their opponents and situations.

Personally, I'd like to see how their scores compare between being at rest, which is how they do it now, and after running their yo-yo test, then again after running their time trial just for a bit of extra data.

I know for me I lose the ability to count when I'm at the lungs burning point of a run, anything over about four and I start getting anxious that I've miss counted. I'd like to see how the combine athletes test when calm and when their body is diverting resources.

The most interesting results would be that they test exactly the same, that would add validity to the test result and hopefully indicate that a player's ability to react in ground ball/contested marking contact/moving in traffic situations etc would be predictably stable regardless of their fatigue level.

That would make it a great measure for identifying elite players.

 

[Joao]

I think for "footballing speed" you'd just have to make a qualitative judgement watching the player play. If Chris reckons (and Ysaye for that matter) Smallwood plays faster than he is, then that is good enough for me.

 

[eastfreo75]

It's a fancy what-a-gator game, I should say it's an eye-to brain-to hand reflex test. I don't have data on correlation between a low reflex time and a fast handball (or otherwise reaction) time but I would expect the athletes who score well on that test to appear to react faster to their opponents and situations.

Personally, I'd like to see how their scores compare between being at rest, which is how they do it now, and after running their yo-yo test, then again after running their time trial just for a bit of extra data.

I know for me I lose the ability to count when I'm at the lungs burning point of a run, anything over about four and I start getting anxious that I've miss counted. I'd like to see how the combine athletes test when calm and when their body is diverting resources.

The most interesting results would be that they test exactly the same, that would add validity to the test result and hopefully indicate that a player's ability to react in ground ball/contested marking contact/moving in traffic situations etc would be predictably stable regardless of their fatigue level.

That would make it a great measure for identifying elite players.

cool

 

[Moo]

Take your minds back to the 2008 draft.

This is an extract from Duffield on https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/th...t-a-fremantle-recruiters-career-ng-b88446455z which is not a bad read, and similar discussions going around this year, only it is number 14 and not number 3. Please don't bother with the anti West etc. here. Just the discussion on track. I get tired of the chip on the shoulder tripe. Save it for other discussions - thanks.

"As the draft neared it became apparent Melbourne were going to pick Jack Watts at No.1, the Eagles were going to take Naitanui at two and it was assumed the Dockers would take Rich — until Smart made his views clear.

Others made their views of his view clear.

Externally, Subiaco coach Scott Watters declared it the sort of decision that would cost a recruiter his job.

Club heavyweights Rick Hart (president) and Ben Allan (director and the club’s first captain) presented powerful arguments for Rich.

Smart received a 10-page internal summary outlining in great detail why it HAD to be Rich.

However, he had the support of fellow recruiters John Nykyforak and Justin Longmuir, who agreed that Hill would edge Rich as a player in the long term.

“It might have cost me a few brownie points at the club at the time,” Smart laughed this week.

“We had a footy affairs group and it got very heated. I always liked guys with a bit of flair.

“I felt Hilly offered that.

“He had good speed, good evasive work, he was clean.

“He was a very good kick and he was a top-quality kid.""

Conca was pick 6, similar stats to Dustin Martin in his first year. We get him for nothing 7 years later, 102 games, and 26.
He is that big bodied midfielder. He has had injury issues lingering as a youngster.

The Eagles had their big stocks heading to last years draft and went small with speed in the draft last year. Well done them.

I am not sure what we need, but Ian Hill sounds like a good pick assuming Clark is not available, as he sounds like a good long term pick for us too.

The main reason I point out the article is, that whenever a WA lad is about to get drafted, there are heated discussions around other WA players, and it is usually around connections of that player that develop a bias point of view. It is understandable, but to me, I only look at the black and gold, and I do not care which WAFL club etc they come from or which coach, which family or which part of WA - North South East West.

14 is a good pick going into this draft, but it is not clear cut. The needs of FFC are now unclear too.
With Hogan and Lobb now we certainly do not need a tall. I think speed and skills is the key. It would be disappointing if we took someone that "has suspect kicking" or someone that is not fast enough - not elite speed, but faster than average AFL. Size to me is not an issue, as long as they can find the footy and utilize skills under pressure.

Thanks for reading, if you got to here!

I remember the Hill/Rich wars well .....I took a piece of shrapnel in my thumb but I managed to keep manning the keyboard until Memories led a relief column of posters to allow me to safely retreat.

Big difference in picking at 14 than 3 though, at 3 you pretty much can break it down to player A vs Player B ....at 14 it is really going to depend on sliders and in reality we may end up with 3 or more players we think are thereabouts. If you are outside the top 10 there is also normally some factors that have you at that spot - could be injury concern, need of development in a skill area, dickhead factor .....

Looking at out list I just think the first has to be a mid, another young mid to complement Cerra & Brayshaw would be great.

So a Collier-Dawkins, Stocker type ...assuming no one drops (Caldwell, Hately etc).

 

[theGav56]

I remember the Hill/Rich wars well .....I took a piece of shrapnel in my thumb but I managed to keep manning the keyboard until Memories led a relief column of posters to allow me to safely retreat.

Big difference in picking at 14 than 3 though, at 3 you pretty much can break it down to player A vs Player B ....at 14 it is really going to depend on sliders and in reality we may end up with 3 or more players we think are thereabouts. If you are outside the top 10 there is also normally some factors that have you at that spot - could be injury concern, need of development in a skill area, dickhead factor .....

Looking at out list I just think the first has to be a mid, another young mid to complement Cerra & Brayshaw would be great.

So a Collier-Dawkins, Stocker type ...assuming no one drops (Caldwell, Hately etc).

Love your moosings.

The other thing with it being a later pick is the club may be able to get a handle on what players could be available at our second pick. If the outside mids are disappearing off the board early, they may move in one direction, or another direction if the inside mids have disappeared first. We saw something along these lines in the Apeness draft where the tall forward options were looking good, then pretty much vanished just before our pick, leaving us with Apeness.

But I am not sure what a Collier-Dawkins/Stocker type is? They seem fairly different.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I would love us to take Sam Sturt if he is available at pick 14 (probably 17), then Stack if he available at 30 and Michael Bennell with our 4th pick or a rookie.

Sturt and Stack would be close to best 22 next year, and Michael Bennell would be very good depth.

 

[Moo]

Love your moosings.

The other thing with it being a later pick is the club may be able to get a handle on what players could be available at our second pick. If the outside mids are disappearing off the board early, they may move in one direction, or another direction if the inside mids have disappeared first. We saw something along these lines in the Apeness draft where the tall forward options were looking good, then pretty much vanished just before our pick, leaving us with Apeness.

But I am not sure what a Collier-Dawkins/Stocker type is? They seem fairly different.

My take is they're both mids who win their own ball ...we just get smashed in the clearances and with Lachie gone I just want a boost to this.

 

[Taylor]

Lachie Neale was at the bounce a third more than the next two most common team mates and we were smashed in the clearances.

What if..

 

[jinxd]

Of the draft highlight videos I've seen so far, I'd be happy with Ian Hill, Riley Collier-Dawkins, or Bailey Williams. The others don't seem that great, IMHO. They fumble, their kicking skills appear to be poor to average, and there's no endeavour there. To me the ideal recruit, is someone who has the tenacity of Brady Grey, the foot-skills of David Mundy, and the speed of ... err... Lachie Weller. Hmm... Any suggestions on who might fit this profile?

 

[blue shark]

Straight line speed is fantastic if your game plan can take advantage, Hawks champions used brains, braun, to get the ball
to their outside runners.
Their mids weren't exactly speed freaks, but quick of mind and natural instinctive players and rarely wasted the ball or
panicked.
Unless we dramatically change our run and spread, and even with the Hills, Langdon, outright speed is wasted at Freo.
The congested, contested game doesn't create time and space, and when was the last time we saw the Hills dominate?
We need more footy smarts first than headless chooks, and that includes the coaching box.
Pretty disappointed that Sandi, Balla weren't shown the door or even rookied.

 

[Alfonz]

Players his height and shorter

5 ft 9 in
Allen Christensen, Orazio Fantasia, Jade Gresham, Billy Hartung, Jack Higgins, Malcolm Karpany, Rory Laird, Zac Langdon, Lachie Neale, Tom Papley, Cameron Polson, Cyril Rioli, Michael Walters, Sam Gray, Dylan Moore, Lachlan Murphy, Devon Smith

5 ft 8 in
Tarir Bayok, Shai Bolton, Travis Colyer, Zac Fisher, Stefan Giro, Cory Gregson, Mitch Honeychurch, Nathan Hrovat, Kym Lebois, Dion Prestia, Willie Rioli, Lewis Taylor, Dayne Zorko, Eddie Betts, Jarryd Blair, Mitch Crowden, Ben Jarman, Jack Lonie, Kieran Lovell, Darcy MacPherson, Jake Neade, Will Snelling, Liam Baker, Hayden Ballantyne, Jay Kennedy Harris, Brandon Matera, Paul Puopolo, Charlie Spargo

5 ft 7 in
Tyson Stengle, Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti

5 ft 6 in
Brent Daniels, Caleb Daniel

Considering the quality you want from a late first rounder, plus body type (tanks like Zorko, Neale, Prestia are irrelevant) and playing position (Hill is not a genuine forward) ... there's not many success stories for a Hill type.

There is Walters (the midfielder). Maybe Fisher. That's over a lot of drafts, the odds are not great for the little fellas. We'd be laughing to get another Sonny, especially a faster one. But I'm not sure the risk is low enough to use pick 14. Then again, the other guys in the mix don't seem that great to me either.

 

[Dale147]

cool

Like Whack a Mole

 

[eastfreo75]

Like Whack a Mole

Games are good

 

[Paracleet]

Lachie Neale was at the bounce a third more than the next two most common team mates and we were smashed in the clearances.

What if..

Let's not invent problems. Our clearance differential was -0.2. That's mid table.
We may have been low on total clearances but that was because we played in games with less total clearances.

 

[DaveLister]

I'm asking because I don't know, how many of the great small forwards were small forwards at junior level? Seems to me that if the small player is good enough to play midfield then they do so. Walters was a mid a junior level, right?

 

[Taylor]

I'm asking because I don't know, how many of the great small forwards were small forwards at junior level? Seems to me that if the small player is good enough to play midfield then they do so. Walters was a mid a junior level, right?

Walters was, even the gun key position players play midfield lower down.

The game has changed. Speed and skills is the path to what I think a world class AFL competition would look like.

That is to say what I think an EPL version of AFL would look like being able to draw all the athletes of the world to it. I think it would be tall, fast, skillful players.

 

[Purple Suit]

Yeah, I remember the Rich & Hill arguments. There's a similar one with Harvey and Smart over Fyfe and Bastinac too.



That's true but I think a lot of people are on the hill bandwagon because of family sentiment, not necessarily WAFL associations. There's a lot of upside to Hill and that's what you're banking on - his potential.

As for Jordan Clarke I wrote this elsewhere.
Clark's progression in the WAFL is what you want to see for a WA player. Play Colts > Selected U/18's > Was consistent in the championships > All Australian selection > Reserves > League team selection for Claremont. Plus I lose my shit for players with poise and an ability to read the play. He just doesnt have much upside from an athletic standpoint.

I personally, don't mind both I just think Ian Hill could be Jarrod Pickett - a kid who dominated when given time and space, a luxury you don't get in AFL these days.

I recon the Hill band wagon is bigger because we missed Bradley Hill 2nd time round and picked up Forster instead. It'd be nice if it didn't occur twice after the Hill/Rich debate landed in our favour. I'd be great if he did make it to our 2nd pick...