Pick 4

[dominguez]

The name calling is poor form Supersonic Docker.

 

[hedgehog]

The more I think about it, the more I start to lean towards Martin. The one question seemed to be about his pace, but he has put those questions to rest.

We can't underestimate the ability to be an elite kick. Maybe Morabito is an okay kick, but he doesn't seem to be up to Martin's standards.

I feel the same Alfonz. Martin ticks all the boxes a midfielder needs to, and would be just what we need to top of a gun young midfield of Suban, Hill, Palmer, De Boer and Ibbotson.

Our midfield is quick enough as is, with Hill, Palmer, De Boer, Ballantyne, Mayne, Hinkley, Ibbo as well as Hall and Ruffles to come, do we need a quick midfielder with averageish skills? Especially given that we have seen Martin is no slouch pace-wise.

I wonder how our recruiters would rate the top 4. If it were me in charge, I'd pick whoever out of Morabito, Scully, Martin and Trengove was left. I'm not sure were Rohan comes in to this howevre, he seems to have very similar attributes to Hill. I guess that's not a bad thing though...

Is Martin more of a genuine/natural midfielder than Morabito? It seems to be that way from what I can gather, so that holds some appeal.

Yes. Martin is what you would call a genuine inside midfielder, whilst Morabito is more unconventional, but probably a more damaging player.

 

[Chris25]

Rohan at 4 would be a mistake. He isn't a genuine midfielder, he is a half forward who can push into the midfield. His tackling is good and can be quite damaging with the ball, but he just doesn't get enough of the ball to be a worthwhile pick at #4. He's a late first rounder for me.

Trengove
Morabito
Butcher
Cunnington
Martin
Lucas

That would be my order, although I'm liking Cunnington more and more and he'd be pushing Butcher for the third spot on my list. He's a pretty similar player to Martin, but more damaging in the air and on the scoreboard. Also apparently the toughest and most professional player in the draft.

On a related note, the kicking test was today at the draft camp. Rohan was the winner, although I still think he has kicking problems when at full pace. Martin, Gysberts, Harwood, Panos, Black and Winmar were the other likely first and second rounders who performed well. Bollenhagen also did well, and he is one player I would be looking at in the fourth round.

 

[prattsta]

Bollenhagen also did well, and he is one player I would be looking at in the fourth round.

Sounds like a german beer, whether that's a good or bad thing I have no idea.

 

[DCFCFAN84]

Has Morabito been confirmed as a "natural midfielder", someone who is a midfielder first?

He has been compared to Adam Goodes can play a variety of roles but midfield is where he is best suited.

 

[hedgehog]

Trengove
Morabito
Butcher
Cunnington
Martin
Lucas

Chris, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts as to why you would have Butcher at 3 (or 4 if you included Scully I presume). Is that an order of how you rate them or who you would prefer to see at our pick?

For me, the difference between Butcher and players like Black, Carlisle and Fitzpatrick who could be around at Pick 20 is less than the difference between Morabito/Martin and the midfielders who would be around at Pick 20 like Gysberts, Jetta and Bastinic.

 

[Freo Blood]

That would be my order, although I'm liking Cunnington more and more and he'd be pushing Butcher for the third spot on my list. He's a pretty similar player to Martin, but more damaging in the air and on the scoreboard. Also apparently the toughest and most professional player in the draft.

Based on what type of player harvey seems to like we may end up with this guy. I also think mids who can find the goals are invaluable. Compare Geelongs goalkicking mids versus the Saints. It spreads the load enormously.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Read my whole first post it was a discussion about tall forwards ala john butcher... Though if you want to cherry pick to manipulate you have done fantastic. The reason I treat your first initial moronic post was for a lack of reading and true insight. None of what you wrote there is a reasonable argument at all.

Do you watch football? Because last time i checked Milburn, Enright, Mackie and Kelly use the ball better than most and have provided more than enough run out of Geelong's backline. This is where your first contradiction starts... Scarlett having to play on Franklin was not what cost them dearly on Grand Final day. It was leaving Dew loose on the half forward line and a few missed opportunities. Franklin's and Roughhead had minimal impact because it was a battle of service from the midfield

Secondly , I never said if a tall doesn't dominate they are not important. Once again you seem to lack to ability to read english and a whole discussion before jumping in and trying to prove something that doesn't exist. I said no matter how good your talls are, if you do not have the midfielders and crumbers around them they become irrelevant. I also said, you can have good talls not elite ones and win a grand final. WHICH IS WHAT GEELONG HAVE JUST DONE? Once again I do not see how you can possibly say and elite tall is more important than an elite midfield.

Find me the last time the team who won a GF didn't have the best midfield at the time?

Oh and on getting the best midfield? Of course I want Fremantle to get the best midfield? Whats wrong with you, or are you just one of those naysayers who likes to cop the flak from your co workers every week because its the only time they talk to you... Find me someone else who doesnt think this club should be trying to get the best possible midfield...

The part in bold is where you truly showed to have no clue. Geelong have four forwards better than any of ours... Yes okay. Good call Google the word Pavlich

port adelaide.... carr/james/burgoyne/burgoyne/cassisi versus voss/black/akermanis/power/lappin

 

[IbbosBFF]

The push for Martin all over BF in the last 3 days has been amazing.

 

[prattsta]

port adelaide.... carr/james/burgoyne/burgoyne/cassisi versus voss/black/akermanis/power/lappin

Sydney over WC, Hawthorn over Geelong; it happens. A great midfield helps, but it's not the be all and end all.

 

[Chris25]

Chris, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts as to why you would have Butcher at 3 (or 4 if you included Scully I presume). Is that an order of how you rate them or who you would prefer to see at our pick?

That's how I rate them. I think there is a reason why Butcher was touted as a top 2 pick for so long, and I don't see any reason why that has changed. It's like Rich last year, talked up for so long and then slipped down the order when it mattered, but look at what he did this season...

Butcher was playing injured for a lot of this year, and still played pretty well. But it looks like he too will slip down the draft order, and for any team in the market for a key forward overlooking him would be a mistake.

But it's good news for Fremantle though. Butcher slipping will hopefully mean a Black/Panos/Carlisle will make it through to our second round pick. Although that is not guaranteed. Of the teams picking before us, I'd expect these teams to go tall;

#9 Port/Carlton (Hawthorn's original pick)
#11 Melbourne
#18 Melbourne
#19 Richmond

While I also wouldn't be surprised if any of the Bulldogs, Collingwood, Geelong or the Saints were to take a tall particularly if Butcher or Talia were to be available.

I think there is a good chance of a quality tall being available at our second rounder, but I wouldn't be banking on it. And if it wasn't to fall our way, perhaps a Fyfe/Houghton second and third round combo could be on the cards...

 

[IbbosBFF]

I wouldn't bother thinking to hard about it until after trade week.

Sadly, the PP would have been quite handy right about now....How many games did we win this year? I've forgotten already.

 

[prattsta]

I think a lot of it, on BF in particular, has to do with the lack of high quality talls in the draft. Everyone wants to take one of the gun midfielders first and pick up whichever tall is leftover in the second round. Butcher is 'sliding' as a result.

Butcher is tall, fast and can take a mark, that's the three of the most important boxes ticked for a KPF. His goal kicking isn't as bad as it's being made out to be either - besides goal kicking can be worked on. I'd rather a guy kicked 3.6 with 9 marks than 2.0 with 2 marks (Ryan Murphy anyone???) As for his endurance, just take a look at Dean Cox, all it takes is hard work. More running means more marks, more marks means more kicks, more kicks means more goals.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

Sydney over WC, Hawthorn over Geelong; it happens. A great midfield helps, but it's not the be all and end all.

My comment was at the time, not on paper...

As for the 2004 GF, Port got a hold of that team just running out of steam with a few pairs of old legs not quite able to do it.

2005 West Coast had a better midfield on paper when you look back, but at the time Sydney had a game plan and structure through their midfield with work around stoppages etc. that the eagles free flowing midfield hadn't learnt how to deal with as best as possible. In 2006 they increased the use of blocking around the stoppages etc. and managed to just deal with it.

As for last year, Bateman/Sewell/Lewis/Hodge(playing out of his skin)Mitchell/Rioli/Osborne were playing better and more aggressive football than the Geelong mids.

As for who we draft, i think its very fortunate for us that guys like Cunnington and Martin have come on strongly towards the end of the year making our first pick more of a win win than what it was previously looking like earlier in the year when we were all hoping melbourne or richmond would take butcher for us. Even though I still think Morabito, Scully and Trengove are a step above the rest...The step has certainly shortened and it looks like we will get a gun player regardless.

As for this discussion on Butcher, I am inclined to think we will still benefit if we decide to go for him. As guys like Chris25 have pointed out there has been a lot of talk about him carrying injuries and what not. He also, from my first hand witnessing has been mobbed at every opportunity as his teams were far too "butcher orientated" this season and kicking to him in the most insane of scenarios.

He has a great pair of hands, is accurate in front of goal, has good speed off the mark and seems to have a good football brain... Wouldn't be upset if we took him, I think it would show maturity in our drafting and would show a genuine desire to build a premiership winning team

 

[SupersonicDocker]

I think a lot of it, on BF in particular, has to do with the lack of high quality talls in the draft. Everyone wants to take one of the gun midfielders first and pick up whichever tall is leftover in the second round. Butcher is 'sliding' as a result.

Butcher is tall, fast and can take a mark, that's the three of the most important boxes ticked for a KPF. His goal kicking isn't as bad as it's being made out to be either - besides goal kicking can be worked on. I'd rather a guy kicked 3.6 with 9 marks than 2.0 with 2 marks (Ryan Murphy anyone???) As for his endurance, just take a look at Dean Cox, all it takes is hard work. More running means more marks, more marks means more kicks, more kicks means more goals.

Good post,

Complaining about a players endurance is feeble when they are 17 years of age. Professional athletes who train 6 1/2 days a week take years and years to build endurance (34+ for marathon runners) So a 17 year old kid who is still in high school and plays footy 3 or 4 times a week with questions on endurance doesn't bother me. Its if his willingness to learn and push himself is there that is the issue.

As for his kicking action, only BF posters have commented on that with legitimate concern... Its his follow through that is grabbing peoples attention, as for contact on the ball and the lead up to it that is fine. Strangely enough when i watch him kick for goal he reminds me of Mark Ricciuto kicking on the run

 

[Nodgey]

I'm concerned that teenagers are playing injured or carrying niggles into games. These kids are still growing FFS.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would much rather a player forge out a career of 260 games over 16 years, than 240 over 12 years.

 

[SupersonicDocker]

For anyone who is curious i asked Emma Quayle what she had heard the clubs saying in regards to Butchers kicking and the response she sent was this

I asked her had there been talk about John Butchers kicking by clubs at the camp and what she had heard.



"Yep, people have different opinions, some think its a problem, others think they could fix it. He'll work hard to improve."

 

[DCFCFAN84]

I wouldn't bother thinking to hard about it until after trade week.

Sadly, the PP would have been quite handy right about now....How many games did we win this year? I've forgotten already.

We won 6 games

 

[kp junior]

We won 6 games

I think Ibbo's point was that 4 wins would have been beneficial draft pick-wise.

 

[rgauci]

I think Kane Lucas is being underestimated. If the following occurs:

1 Scully
2 Trengove
3 Morabito

I would take Lucas at 4. Lots of push for Martin early in Victoria. It's understandable. He's a ball magnet with polished skills. But i think Lucas' endurance would be a real asset at Subiaco. Personally i think being a local boy should push it over the line. Though the kicking skills of Martin would be great at Fremantle. Tough choice.

Kane Lucas 20m Sprint 2.93 5th
Kane Lucas Vertical Jump 67.00 7th
Kane Lucas Agility 7.95 1st
Kane Lucas 3km time trial 10.05 3rd

Dustin Martin Repeat Sprints 24.56 7th
Dustin Martin 20m Sprint 2.89 2nd
Dustin Martin Kicking efficiency 22/30 2nd

Would be nice to know Martin's endurance.

 

[DCFCFAN84]

Would be nice to know Martin's endurance.

Yeah that would be pretty intresting to know AFL.com is useless they could easily post everyones times Martin could have been just outside the top 10 or he could be one of the least fit players in the draft pretty hard to tell when they dont post the damn results.

 

[mayne iac]

Over the past couple of weeks I have turned to a Lucas fan.
The Draft camp has really intensified my feelings.
I reckon he'll be a 250 game player - and I've got this horrible feeling the scum will get him.
For me personally - hes got the runs on the board - starred at WAFL Level 5 goals from the midfield iirc. Blitzed the DC and has wait for it............ good foot skills.

Whats Morabito done to cause all the froth?

 

[Bradesmaen]

Over the past couple of weeks I have turned to a Lucas fan.
The Draft camp has really intensified my feelings.
I reckon he'll be a 250 game player - and I've got this horrible feeling the scum will get him.
For me personally - hes got the runs on the board - starred at WAFL Level 5 goals from the midfield iirc. Blitzed the DC and has wait for it............ good foot skills.

Whats Morabito done to cause all the froth?

He's tall and can run fastish. Apparently that makes you a good footballer now.

 

[rgauci]

Over the past couple of weeks I have turned to a Lucas fan.
The Draft camp has really intensified my feelings.
I reckon he'll be a 250 game player - and I've got this horrible feeling the scum will get him.
For me personally - hes got the runs on the board - starred at WAFL Level 5 goals from the midfield iirc. Blitzed the DC and has wait for it............ good foot skills.

Whats Morabito done to cause all the froth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TsIKpFAmvo

 

[mayne iac]

That footage is all well and good in small parts -

What I saw from that footage was :

1 he's big and gives away alot of frees
2 Gets caught with the ball
3 Good over head mark against a midget
4 Shanked it into the fifty numerous times (Peake like)
5 1 good check side
6 Bombs it long again (Peake like)
7 Missed most shots on goal - bar the check side and the burst from the pack)

Thats just what I wrote down as I watched it, geez if thats what everyone is frothing on then I'm worried.

It seems like everyone is barring up over him because of this so called amazing x factor and potential. I reckon we need someone solid with good foot skills. On that footage alone, he aint that.