Analysis Pies lacking goalkickers

[Manic Magpie]

An article by Rohan Connolly in today's Age. Can't bring it up on google.

'For Collingwood at the moment it's Cloke and Elliott or bust. Over the past four games they've combined for 51% of the Magpie's goals. Roughead and Breust = 35%, Franklin and Goodes = 36%, Westhoff and Schultz = 36%. Our midfielders don't kick enough goals, with Pendlebury and Swan's contributions down this year. Collingwood has had more than 8 individual goalkickers once - against WC in round 10 when it had 13. In that game, Cloke only kicked 1, with the rest kicked by small men. Connolly described the proliferation of small men creeping forward to score in that game as 'like trying to deal with a mice plague'.

We average 7.3 goalkickers per game, which is 15th, better only than Melbourne, Brisbane and St Kilda. Hawthorn average most goalkickers at 9.62.

The article goes into more depth citing individual players whose contributions have either gone up or down. For instance, Sidebottom's suspension, injuries to Reid and Fasolo, along with a list of mids who contribute little to the scoreboard - Thomas, Young, Adams, Macaffer and Dwyer.

Lack of rebound out of the backline is also linked to our thin list of goalkickers, particularly with the absence of Maxwell.

Mods are welcome to merge this elsewhere if the article does not deserve a thread of its own. Are there any suggestions how we can start to rectify this area of our game or further analysis on why it's occurring.

 

[frizzle]

Hence the bewilderment that Martin has not been given a chance & Kennedy is copping the same deal.
It isn't like the encumbents are taking all before them & hitting the score board hard.

 

[Seedsfan]

That will change when Fas Reidy and PK are fit

 

[Kilmo]

That will change when Fas Reidy and PK are fit

Yep. And Martin.

 

[Seedsfan]

Yep. And Martin.

No not Martin if he comes in it will be for mid field role not as a forward

 

[PTpie]

Our lack of goal kickers isn't to concerning given our defense has been so effective for most of the season. That said, in the last 2 weeks we have been pummeled by the Dogs and Hawks, as you rightly highlighted, because they restrict our rebound ability. This is more apparent when we lack leadership in the back line as offered by Maxwell, Reid or Brown.

When you only conceed 11 goals a game (as we did on avg for rounds 2 - 12) your offence doesn't need to be the best. We carried Cloke until he hit form and still won more than we lost.

In any sport defense needs to come first and we are too often guilty of trying to turn defense into offense often before we have created an opportunity. This leads to some of our mids not running hard enough in defense leaving our defenders 1 out and exposed.

Our defenders first kick out of defence to often places them under incredible pressure. We have some excellent ball users in the back half - Seedsman, Young (most times) and Langdon yet Keefe, Frost and Toovey seem to do the majority of kick-ins. We struggle to realise when we have been forced to kick it long to the boundary and often fiddle with it resulting in a turnover. That has to be a game plan issue. The pressure on the guys doing the kick ins mounts the further we fall behind in the game and they make more blunders as the game wears on. What ever happened to kicking it 55 meters to the ruckman/CHF 5 in from the boundary? I'd back our mids to win contested ball/clearances against most sides so lets use that and move the ball away from our danger area.

I'm confident that once Maxwell comes back into the team our defence will tighten up under his direction and the boys will have more confidence in their ability to clear the defensive zone and create rebounds. Great leadership can't be underestimated and personally I think Collingwoods back half is lacking at the moment.

 

[Kilmo]

No not Martin if he comes in it will be for mid field role not as a forward

Do you think? What makes you say that? I can't be bothered looking it up, but didn't he come in last year and kick 2 in one game and 3 in another? At any rate, he should still be able to pop up for a few goals from the midfield anyway, as we have seen sprinkled throughout our midfielders throughout the year.

 

[Seedsfan]

Do you think? What makes you say that? I can't be bothered looking it up, but didn't he come in last year and kick 2 in one game and 3 in another? At any rate, he should still be able to pop up for a few goals from the midfield anyway, as we have seen sprinkled throughout our midfielders throughout the year.

Well he is not going to play in the forward line ahead of Elliott or Fasolo. He is a mid when he comes in to the side he will rotate in to the forward line a bit but will predominantly play in the middle

 

[Big Bryza]

That will change when Fas Reidy and PK are fit

Miracles do happen??

 

[mattys123]

Of course our forward line is our biggest concern, and it's not just kicking goals that is the problem as strange as that sounds.

At the moment we are reliant on Cloke, Elliott and the mids to kick our goals, wnd we are all praying that Reid, PK and Fasolo get back this year, but that's unlikely to happen now, so we live with it.

There is no immediate answer, Martin and Kennedy aren't proven goal kickers at VFL level, in fact as some have pointed out both are better as mids than they are as forwards anyway.

Adding a young Moore to the mix next season might help, but unless Reid and PK are fit next year we will struggle again, White is a 3rd forward at best, maybe even a 4th forward, so he's not going to help much unless we can add better players than him to the forward line.

 

[DaVe86]

Yeah the inclusions of Fasolo, Reid and Karnezis could change that.

We also aren't getting the same midfield goals out of Pendlebury, Beams and Swan that we are used to which is concerning.

I also think Goldsack and Blair might start getting onto a few more if there are more attacking weapons up there.

Also, Jessie White will flourish as the 3rd tall option as opposed to the 2nd tall and ruck. He has never enjoyed playing 2nd tall because he is not good enough. He needs the 3rd best defender with midfield time as well.

 

[Seedsfan]

Yeah the inclusions of Fasolo, Reid and Karnezis could change that.

We also aren't getting the same midfield goals out of Pendlebury, Beams and Swan that we are used to which is concerning.

I also think Goldsack and Blair might start getting onto a few more if there are more attacking weapons up there.

Also, Jessie White will flourish as the 3rd tall option as opposed to the 2nd tall and ruck. He has never enjoyed playing 2nd tall because he is not good enough. He needs the 3rd best defender with midfield time as well.

Would preffer Grundy and Witts to play over White, Grundy showed he can take a contested mark. Witts ruck Grundy forward

 

[Kilmo]

There is no immediate answer, Martin and Kennedy aren't proven goal kickers at VFL level, in fact as some have pointed out both are better as mids than they are as forwards anyway.

Sorry Matty, did you mean at AFL level? Because I would argue that Martin is certainly a proven goal kicker at VFL level, and there is an argument that says he has done that reputation no harm in his albeit limited AFL appearances. I agree on Kennedy though, I think he is great but he definitely is not going to be the answer to our goal kicking woes, in the short term at least.

 

[Big Bryza]

It's a tough one because I think we've placed a big emphasis on the mids to be defensive so it's hard for them to push forward as often to kick goals. Far out, the amount of times we broke through half back on the weekend to Cloke v 5 hawks players was simply ridiculous. Our smaller guys dont need to push so far up the ground. Whites no more than a 3rd tall forward/2nd ruck unfortunately. He can't take a contested mark to save himself. We are seriously lacking a 2nd tall option. Ben Reid, y u do dis??

We're very predictable with our setup as well. Its always 3 talls deep, 3 smalls on the 50m/edge of square at a centre ball up. Why don't we change it up a bit? Push Cloke up the ground. Get a Beams/Swan type isolated deep. Just try something different. As much as I dislike the hawks what they do so well is be unpredictable to the opposition. Different set ups in the middle and forward line all the time, always making the opposition guess.

It's going to be hard until we get Reid and Karnezis in but we just need to experiment a little bit in the meantime.

 

[TradeDraft]

Intresting before Cloke came good all our Mids where kicking lots Goals and Now Cloke is Kicking them. The Mids are not Kicking the Goals

 

[Seedsfan]

Intresting before Cloke came good all our Mids where kicking lots Goals and Now Cloke is Kicking them. The Mids are not Kicking the Goals

Well now the kick it to a forward, against the Saints everyone kicked them then Melbourne was a scrap.It was the Doggies and Hawks game that the mids didn't hit the score board

 

[mattys123]

Sorry Matty, did you mean at AFL level? Because I would argue that Martin is certainly a proven goal kicker at VFL level, and there is an argument that says he has done that reputation no harm in his albeit limited AFL appearances. I agree on Kennedy though, I think he is great but he definitely is not going to be the answer to our goal kicking woes, in the short term at least.

Yeah you know what I meant.

I think there's a reason why Martin hasn't been promoted yet and it's one of two reasons;

1. We don't have the salary cap room for the round 11 upgrade rule
2. We simply don't believe he's a better option than those already in the selection frame

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah you know what I meant.

I think there's a reason why Martin hasn't been promoted yet and it's one of two reasons;

1. We don't have the salary cap room for the round 11 upgrade rule
2. We simply don't believe he's a better option than those already in the selection frame

Then that says to me we could look to move Martin off in a Trade at seasons end

 

[TheWing121]

Would preffer Grundy and Witts to play over White, Grundy showed he can take a contested mark. Witts ruck Grundy forward

White is pretty quick and agile. He will allow us to play Cloke, Reid, White & Goldsack / Karnezus and still be fairly mobile in the forward line

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Forwards like Blair, White and Goldsack just don't hit the scoreboard enough. This is made worse when our mids dont chip in either.

Our lack of genuine goal scorers is one of our biggest problems at the moment. It is reflective of how poor our midfield has been this year as they are getting beaten in clearances as well.

 

[Travis bloke]

No goal kickers ? Lets see Clokey,sidey,Pendles,Goldsac,fasolo,White,Swanny, Elliot, Reidy, and a few cameos we have the goalkickers we just cant deliver the ball properly.If we did that we would be unstoppable. and a few are still injured

 

[BEEG]

Need to throw big money at another forward its pretty simple

 

[Travis bloke]

Gee guys if we had White ,Cloke. Reid,Goldsac,and or Karnesis (When he is finally fit) with players like fasolo and Elliot at their feet we are looking very dangerous but we need all these in the team playing.........The unkown factor is Sharenberg and freeman when fully fit what can they add?

 

[Manic Magpie]

Yeah you know what I meant.

I think there's a reason why Martin hasn't been promoted yet and it's one of two reasons;

1. We don't have the salary cap room for the round 11 upgrade rule
2. We simply don't believe he's a better option than those already in the selection frame

It's hard to believe we don't have the money to upgrade Martin. Do we have so little room in our salary cap despite the loss of Dawes, Shaw and Thomas? Does this mean we won't have money at the end of the year to throw at a good player from another team?

 

[Travis bloke]

Need to throw big money at another forward its pretty simple

Yes Beeg but we have Darcy Moore coming to us next year but he will take time,unless we get aggressive and pry a big guy out of GWS one of their 4 forwards one will go........Paton,Cameron,Boyd,or forget the other chaps name he was second best forward next to Boyd