List Mgmt. Player Ages Thread

[eth-dog]

Boyd probably would need a year maybe 2 in the magoos but seriously i dont think hooker is as important as people believe. After the year he has had he holds more currency than say pears for example....

Everybody you have to remember it was only last season that we were mostly against hooker ever playing another game in the red and black...

This was because he can not mind a player. He is ok running around lose or on a lesser like down back but he can not match it with the big guys. Shit even jason cloke used to look like an AA until the tried making him man up.. Then he was smashed every week and it was goodbye buddy.

No, we weren't. He had no protection second half of last year

 

[BrunoV]

He's also overestimating Boyd, more specifically his ability to play immediately.

How many key forward have walked into really good teams from day one and delivered the output we're gonna need. He'd need a year to marinate in the two's imo

Daniher?

 

[yaco55]

Boyd probably would need a year maybe 2 in the magoos but seriously i dont think hooker is as important as people believe. After the year he has had he holds more currency than say pears for example....

Everybody you have to remember it was only last season that we were mostly against hooker ever playing another game in the red and black...

This was because he can not mind a player. He is ok running around lose or on a lesser like down back but he can not match it with the big guys. Shit even jason cloke used to look like an AA until the tried making him man up.. Then he was smashed every week and it was goodbye buddy.

Wow

Hooker plays on the second best tall forward most weeks - Do u watch games ?

You never use a first round selection on a small forward.

 

[Keystone agony]

Should we go after a Hayes, NDS, Sylvia if we can get for a cheap rate.

The small forwards seem hard to get and wed have to trade of a quality one and give up something of quality. Most our players right now seem untouchable esp if TBC plays at the year and finals like he did vs port. Crameri is best 22 no doubt and im confident in him staying on for some reason.

I know it probably puts guys like Howlett, Myers, Melksham even further back but all 3 can add something in a big final IMO. NDS without a tag is lethal he can also play across halfback and his ideal position should be a wing ever since the days of Hayes and Goddard at the saints have passed he has struggled with no help.

Sylvias been brillant the last 5 games, I know he had an article saying he wants to stay a dee but hes looking for extra money nothing else. We probably don't have enough for him.

 

[tazzawazza]

Would you trade Daniher for pick no 1?

 

[yaco55]

Would you trade Daniher for pick no 1?

Of course not.

In effect you are trading Daniher for Boyd.

Pointlesss.

 

[Zach Package]

From what i've seen of both at U18 level, Daniher > Boyd anyway

 

[Smyth94]

Definitely no to trading Hooker or TBC - just no.

IMO we're one key forward who can consistently hit 50+ goals to go all the way and we've already got him on the list.

Could use a little more outside speed and a more consistent small forward but really our list as it stands is very balanced and I wouldn't be trading anyone as I don't want the balance upset.

 

[Keystone agony]

Are we the best list on paper? id say wed go bloody close

Mitchell - J.Selwood - Jobe Watson
Hodge - SJ - Stanton
Bailey - D.Simpson - Ryder
Hale - Blicavs - Bellchambers
Lewis - Bartel - Goddard
L.Shiel - T.Hunt - Hocking
Sewell - Kelly - Heppell
Rioli - M.Stokes - Zaharakis
Roughead - Podsiadlly - Crameri
Birchall - Enright - Hibberd (gee all will be AA after this year and 2 probably this year)
Burgoyne - Varcoe - Dempsey
Franklin - T.Hawkins - Hurley
Gibson - Harry T - Hooker
Lake - Lonergan - Carlisle
Stratton - Mackie - Fletcher
Breust - Christensen - Winderlich (One im strugging to split)
Puopolo - Motlop - A.Davey
I.Smith - Duncan - Howlett
Guerra - Guthrie - Baguley (Again I cant split)
B.Hill - J.Corey - Melksham (Cant split, Corey has the experience but his best is well past him and the others I right next to him now)
Whitecross - Caddy - Myers

That's 21 players. A tough exercise may have left players out ect (Suckling deliberate), Hunt aswell and Pears for dons.

Geel end up with 13
Hawks 6
Ess 12

Some oppo fans and on here would obviousily disagree but these are close to best available teams this year

You sometimes wonder why hawks are so good they probably do come 2nd in quite a few aswell though

Didn't do for Sydney or Freo. They are probably ahead of the hawks on paper both IMO. Maybe I just underrate to many of those hawks. I think Sydney would probably go very close to geelong probably better and maybe freo aswell.

 

[Yoda_]

What could we offer for Jeffy Garlett?

 

[HirdyLannister]

What could we offer for Jeffy Garlett?

Dunno but he is the only Carlton player I want, his form right now is exceptional.

What does Carlton need the most? A forward to help Waite Imo, I can only think of a straight swap with Gumby ....

 

[jsd09]

I don't want to see him go but I honestly think Gumbleton will be gone at years end not by Essendon's choosing but more so that at one stage he was one forward injury or a player with bad form to get into the side... now he has Daniher to compete with, not only does he have to play well enough to get into the side but he has to play better then Daniher... & Maybe not so much this year but 2014/2015 realistically as a football club we don't want Gumbleton taking games from Daniher he need's AFL exposure and development

 

[Kakkle]

As long as Gumbleton does not go to Carlton. It'd break my f**king heart.

 

[ant555]

Can not see why we need to be trading for early draft picks now. A couple of seasons ago yes but we do not need to be trading to get Boyd or anyone else who is going to take 2 to 3 seasons to be up and running.
We have spent time developing Hooker and Bellchambers and now people are looking at trading them. It is simply crazy. Hooker is in his prime now and is in sensational form. Bellchambers is not far of finding a consistent level.
What we need to do now is add an experienced midfielder like Griffen or similar, someone who does not have to be totally inside but adds run and finishes well. Then we simply keep doing what we have been doing in the draft and finding good players. There is no need for any more rebuilds or mini rebuilds.
We have spent enough time getting the list to where it is. It is close to being with the best in the comp. There is plenty of good youth on it and is set up to give us a good run in the finals for the next 4 or 5 seasons.
And before anyone starts yes i did say i would consider trading Myers a number of weeks back but please do quote me correctly as i would only consider it if the deal was an upgrade and no i would not be simply looking for picks for him. As i said above we need a good finishing mid with a bit of pace and run, we may be able to move on one of our mids to achieve that.

Do not see the value in simply trading the tall players. If some want to go then sure look at trades then but why would you want to go out of your way to trade them off at this stage for early picks ? Just crazy

 

[ant555]

Obviously drafting is not a guarantee. But with our projected picks, those are the best players I expect to be available. Neagle I think is a chance to get drafted, Clothier 50/50. If we do take him, it's with our last or a rookie pick so not much is lost.

For the Hille retires and Ryder injured scenario: D.Cameron is a 203cm athletic ruck prospect. I would also draft a mature age back up ruckman so Daniher and Gumby aren't forced in massive ruck minutes. They are both far better suited to the forward line and I wouldn't be risking them in centre bounces too often.

If you looked at the two sides I posted you would have noticed that the reserve team players match the roles of the senior team players. This ensures depth and injury coverage. My recruiting strategy holds the club in good stead going forward.

I will concede that the club is a year further away from a flag under my proposals. But that is only due to adding some youth to the starting 22. In doing this we remain a quality premiership threat for much longer, ensuring a Geelong / Sydney like dynasty of success. There is no guarantee the current 22 are good enough to beat the top sides and win a flag.

The simple question is why ? After getting in Merv Keane and spending the last 6 years building the list to what it is now and being a fraction away from a top 2 side do we need to trade for the sake of trading ?

Our window is now, Ryder and Bellchambers will be a sensational ruck duo who both kick goals.
Hooker is now one of the best defenders in the leauge.
Why do we need to change that ?

I can say i see more of the under under 18 footy than anyone who posts here and by that i mean getting out and seeing games, usually 2 to 4 a weekend depending on the draw. I have seen Boyd a lot, yes he is very good, yes he is a top 5 pick, yes i think he will make it but we already have Joe, we already have Gumby. We have Carlisle and Hurley who can play both ends. All are young.
As said we have 2 rucks that can play forward as well.
Our time is now ! it is not time to be sending of one of the leauges best defenders or most promising rucks.
We are not a basket case outside the 8 anymore. the list simply needs some fine tuning around the edges and not 5 or 6 young kids who will take time to develop !

 

[ant555]

I've noticed a few times that you seem very much in favour of keeping Gumbleton around. Would like to know what you would do with the list (the talls in particular).

Keep as many as possible which sounds simple and most likely will not happen.
It is a given that Fletcher has probably 2014 season max in him, maybe 2015 in a reduced role with limited games.
There is a lot of love for Pears, i have not been a big fan but will admit i really liked his last game but i still think that Hooker, Carlisle and Hurley are better defenders.
I like Gumby over Crameri long term and if Hurley, Carlisle and Hooker are holding up the defense then i like the forwards to be Joe, Gumby and one of Ryder or Bellchambers.
For mine the two that get squeezed out are Crameri and Pears and that is not a blight on their form but more of how i rank them in the order.
Have been saying for 2 seasons i thought Hooker was better than Pears and i doubt i would change my mind now. I am on record here as saying the offers to trade Hooker to the GC and then to WC where bloody stupid and i stand by that. The bloke is an underrated gem.

Keep Bellchambers is a must. Hille will retire and Ryder and Bellchambers will be one of the best ruck combos going around. Young Joe will develop into your 3rd ruck by year 4 and if we retain Gumby he can be number 4 followed by a young bloke. having Ryder and Bellchambers at 1 and 2 is a must. Big Tom should be priority number 1.

What would i do with the list, well keep it simple. Deal with the blokes who may want to leave as they come and be flexible and take reasonable value for them other than in no circumstances do we trade Gumby to the Blues. Could just live with him going home or to the Dogs.

Look for another quality outside mid with good skills. Hard to find yes but if we have a couple want to leave then who knows otherwise it could be FA 2014.

Then just keep doing what we have been doing with our drafting and keep finding a reasonable good mix of young under 18's and a few 21 to 23 year old state players to work on the fringe of the list.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

You really underestimate our list me thinks

Maybe I do. Until we've played finals footy against the best we can't really be sure of exactly where our list is at. I just feel on paper it doesn't quite add up to the premiership sides of the past 5 years. We need more skilled kicks going inside 50 and some genuine outside leg speed. Apart from Dempsey and when he's up and going Zaha, we don't have genuine line breakers. Don't get me wrong, the likes of Davey and Hibberd are quick runners, they're just not in that elite speed bracket. Dayle Garlett is almost a necessity this draft.

Tom Boyd would be icing on the cake that gives more balance to the side (Daniher / Ryder as the KPF/R duo gives the side more run and better forward like functionality). However, I am more than happy with Ryder/Bellchamber as R/KPF and Daniher/Gumby as KPF is not T.Boyd trade can be made.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

He's also overestimating Boyd, more specifically his ability to play immediately.

How many key forward have walked into really good teams from day one and delivered the output we're gonna need. He'd need a year to marinate in the two's imo

I see Boyd's physicality similar to J.Hogan. Would be able to play 10 - 15 games for probably 20 - 25 goals in a good side. Second year builds on that similar to the way Jack Darling kicked 24 in his 1st year and then 50 in his second.

Him developing alongside Daniher would lead to a scary forward setup heading into the 2016 season (think Buddy and Roughy in 08)

He's done pretty well on the second forward when Carlisle took the first key forward, he's hardly been beaten. He's not the kind of player I would call 'important' but he is a valuable member of the team and clearly in our best 22. Would not trade him unless he wanted out.

I agree he is valuable, but it is that value that means you get something in return for him on the trade table. And while he is valuable, he is able to be covered at Essendon, with Hurley moving back and Pears continued improvement.

I would definitely select Carlisle, Hurley & Pears over Carlise/Hurley, Hooker, Fletcher/Pears

No, we weren't. He had no protection second half of last year

KPD's shouldn't rely on protection. While a functional back 6 that gives one another a chop out and assistance is beneficial, genuine KPD's should be able to hold their opponent KPF in 1v1 contests. Carlisle, Hurley and Pears are all capable of this when given the right match ups, and the three of them cover all types of key forwards, whether it be stay at home giants (Hawkins), leading KPF (Riewoldt), Small marking targets (Le Cras) or Mid sized brutes (Darling).

He's also overestimating Boyd, more specifically his ability to play immediately.

How many key forward have walked into really good teams from day one and delivered the output we're gonna need. He'd need a year to marinate in the two's imo

Also J.Cameron in a terrible side, T.Cloke took 12 marks on debut, Patton was good before doing his knee, T.Lynch has played good footy from day one, J.Brown played in 3 flags first up, Riewoldt and Kosi both won rising star awards, J.Darling kicked 75 goals in his first 40 games, J.Hogan has 40 goals in the VFL as a 17 year old.

T.Boyd is considered as good, if not better than most of these (Riewoldt excluded). He's got mammoth size, great hands and like Daniher takes the ball at the highest point. He is incredibly well spoken and reeks of leadership. And, unlike many young KPF, he is a wonderful set shot.

Wow

Hooker plays on the second best tall forward most weeks - Do u watch games ?

You never use a first round selection on a small forward.

I would take J.Billings or D.Garlett with our first selection (but I'm hoping Garlett slides to our 2nd pick). They're both small forwards with 'some' midfield capability.

Should we go after a Hayes, NDS, Sylvia if we can get for a cheap rate.

The small forwards seem hard to get and wed have to trade of a quality one and give up something of quality. Most our players right now seem untouchable esp if TBC plays at the year and finals like he did vs port. Crameri is best 22 no doubt and im confident in him staying on for some reason.

I know it probably puts guys like Howlett, Myers, Melksham even further back but all 3 can add something in a big final IMO. NDS without a tag is lethal he can also play across halfback and his ideal position should be a wing ever since the days of Hayes and Goddard at the saints have passed he has struggled with no help.

Sylvias been brillant the last 5 games, I know he had an article saying he wants to stay a dee but hes looking for extra money nothing else. We probably don't have enough for him.

Of those I think Sylvia's game style suits us most. He's a crash and bash, fast faced and skillful footballer at his best (a poor man's Dangerfield so to speak). Could add needed pace, grunt and finishing skill.

Definitely no to trading Hooker or TBC - just no.

IMO we're one key forward who can consistently hit 50+ goals to go all the way and we've already got him on the list.

Could use a little more outside speed and a more consistent small forward but really our list as it stands is very balanced and I wouldn't be trading anyone as I don't want the balance upset.

How good does Daniher and Boyd sound though. Clubs kill for combinations like that. We were lucky for so long to have Lloyd and Lucas.

I agree with the outside speed. Must target Dayle Garlett with our 2nd pick. Must!

What could we offer for Jeffy Garlett?

Get Dayle instead. Offers much more in that he can rotate through the middle, has better set up kicks (my like Cyril) and can win contested ball. Also has been kicking 3 goals a game in the WAFL, so can hit the scoreboard.

 

[BrunoV]

Daniher?

I was being sarcastic Rancid Trogs. The whole point is that even the best of the best is years off.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I agree he is valuable, but it is that value that means you get something in return for him on the trade table. And while he is valuable, he is able to be covered at Essendon, with Hurley moving back and Pears continued improvement.

I would definitely select Carlisle, Hurley & Pears over Carlise/Hurley, Hooker, Fletcher/Pears

And when one of our talls goes down injured? What then?

Just because there is a trade period doesn't mean we have to use it. A draft pick is always a risk, an established player like Hooker on the list for 3 more years is much less of a risk. I'm a little shocked that after our experiences with Gumby, Myers, Pears, A. Long, and Winderlich that people are still prepared to gamble away established players for an unknown quantity.

 

[BrunoV]

I was being sarcastic Rancid Trogs. The whole point is that even the best of the best is years off.

I don't understand why you are liking my posts (although it tends to confirm my view that you're just out having a fun with this).

 

[Rancid Trogs]

And when one of our talls goes down injured? What then?

Just because there is a trade period doesn't mean we have to use it. A draft pick is always a risk, an established player like Hooker on the list for 3 more years is much less of a risk. I'm a little shocked that after our experiences with Gumby, Myers, Pears, A. Long, and Winderlich that people are still prepared to gamble away established players for an unknown quantity.

I would of course be adding to our ruck stocks through the draft - a young 'to be developed' ruckman and a mature aged pick up. I would also probably try to eke one more year out of the Hille's Hoist - much like Collingwood is doing with Hudson / Jolly while Witts and Grundy come on.

Hooker is not a required player (we have ample KPD's ahead of him), so you're not losing massively if Boyd doesn't come up trumps. But most people would suggest Boyd's upside far outweighs the loss of a Hooker type player that we have cover for anyway.

In 5 years time people will be saying Boyd for Bellchambers and Hooker would have been an Essendon win. Sometimes, you've got to take the educated risk to get the greatest outcome

 

[Rancid Trogs]

I don't understand why you are liking my posts (although it tends to confirm my view that you're just out having a fun with this).

I like quite a bit of what you say, and instead of writing something tacky like 'good point', I acknowledge them with a like. You tend to make quite a bit of sense, we just disagree on some points.

You can't have a discussion with one opinion. While we differ on some things, I tend to respect what you say because you often make good points.

 

[Old Campaigner]

We wouldn't get pick #1 for Hooker and TBC. We aren't desperate enough to do that trade and there are 4 or 5 other clubs that are prepared to give a lot more for it. I still think we can get all the players we need from our regular draft picks plus one or two additional later ones obtained by trading fringe players like Jetta/Hardingham/Davis/Colyer.

And all this assumes both Hooker/TBC/whoever actually want to go to GWS, and that we don't get a player like Crameri or Gumby heading off to the Bulldogs or Carlton.

Hille is past it, he didn't look up to AFL standard the times he's played this year. He won't be any better next year. Any plan that involves Hille playing on for one more year is not the first choice for anyone.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

We wouldn't get pick #1 for Hooker and TBC. We aren't desperate enough to do that trade and there are 4 or 5 other clubs that are prepared to give a lot more for it. I still think we can get all the players we need from our regular draft picks plus one or two additional later ones obtained by trading fringe players like Jetta/Hardingham/Davis/Colyer.

And all this assumes both Hooker/TBC/whoever actually want to go to GWS, and that we don't get a player like Crameri or Gumby heading off to the Bulldogs or Carlton.

Hille is past it, he didn't look up to AFL standard the times he's played this year. He won't be any better next year. Any plan that involves Hille playing on for one more year is not the first choice for anyone.

Hooker and TBC may not get the job done - in that case we keep them and continue forward with our draft picks as you suggest. And that is fine. But while there is a chance to get Boyd, you've got to look at it.

Hille was ok in the couple of games he played. No world beater, but serviceable. Would only need to play when Ryder was out of the side and if the backup mature aged ruck was unavailable. He'd largely be insurance against massive KPP injury. A role he can no doubt still fulfill.