Player development

[SellarStardom]

I know this has probably been covered under other threads but why does it seem we are so crap at player development, particularly ruckmen?

I know we have had success with other people, the likes of Scott Thompson is often quoted, but let's be honest, the more recent recruits of Lynch, Tambling, Johnston have not been winners to date. Most of this I believe is related to our development.

Watching Richmond v Freo right now and seeing Knights, Griffin and Maric playing well does not make me warm with pride. More so the recent decline of Sauce is a worry.

So is this a result of our line coaches (Matt Clark, Bickley), our player development side of the organisation, or a exult of he SANFl situation?

 

[Cap]

but wait....didn't we develop Maric and Griffin and Knights?

I might just point out that the players rated most highly in our team...Walker, Danger, Sloane, Rutten, Talia, Wright, Petrenko et al are all developed by AFC?

 

[fabs33]

Given that we have some pretty decent talent on our list (Walker, Dangerfield, Sloane, Smith, etc...) without ever having the benefit of a slew of high draft picks, the likes normally found in teams bottoming out, I'd say we've done alright in our player development.

 

[FR0GGY]

It's hard to quantify good development with high draft picks or players that are rated highly before we pick them up (danger and walker smith) it's a lot easier to tell from a player like jack watts that his development has been nothing short of ordinary.
Our ruck development have always been a worry but I think you could always see the potential in griffin not so in maric.

 

[Ravenous Crow]

Relevant username.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I was about to start the exact same thread.....

If I were an opposition club I would be targeting our fringe to average players like Hendo, Mackay, Douglas, Mckernan, Martin, Jaensch, Lyons....
And if you were a fringe player at Adelaide, I would be sniffing around elsewhere...

Griffin, Knights, Armstrong, Maric all almost ready for the chop.... Now playing bloody good football

Do we have a development problem? Is it the SANFL?

 

[Elite Crow]

The two damming ones are Griffin and Maric. How he hell are they playing the football they are now? I reckon Griffin beat Maric last night and was everywhere. He was a spud with us. The other issue is their opportunities were limited with Kurt in the side.

As for Knights, one good game doesn't mean his development has improved. He had those with us, he needs to maintain it.
Armstrong was and is an enigma, I liked him, he provided good speed and skills. That he's getting a game with the premiers shows we didn't give him enough opportunities or get the best out him. At this stage we've definitely lost that trade.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

You can throw in Mattner, Lee, Curnow... Even bloody Sellar and Pfeiffer for the sake of the argument.

Who have we brought in in that time that we have improved? Sauce

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Knights was always a talent imo. Just had several years of injuries, interrupted pre seasons etc.

Maric and Griffin are hard to guage. Everyone knows rucks take time to come on. We traded both before the usual age where they make a mark on the game (well maric was on the cusp really) . Mumford, Cox, Hille, McEvoy etc all took the same amount of time to develop.

Armstrong is the one I would like to still be at Adelaide. Need that run badly now.

 

[cmndstab]

Maric is probably the only relevant example - and he was playing decent AFL footy with us anyway. He just wasn't going to get a game with Jacobs here.

Griffin was always good at having a quality game here and there followed by pea-hearted efforts for a month.

Knights' issue was his body, not his form. Every time he started to come good, he'd get another two week injury and then spend two months trying to remember how to play footy again.

Lynch, Tambling and Johnston are not failures of development. Lynch and Johnston are both performing very well in the league comp but don't have a place in our current structure - perhaps a failure of list management? As for Tambling, he had been developed for six years by the time we got him. The damage was already done there. The only blame to lay there is on the person who decided to trade away our compo pick for him (and yes, I'll admit I was in favour of it at the time ).

If Armstrong was still here, he'd either be playing league footy, or copping the bagging Jaensch does each week on here. Absolutely no loss there. He's just not that good a player.

Lee and Curnow were victims of being given only one year. Again, a list management issue rather than a development issue - though in Lee's case, he didn't want to stick around anyway.

Overall our development programs have been very strong, in my opinion. The legitimate criticism, if any, is that our players seem to go backwards (or at least stagnate) after their development period is complete.

 

[Glenno23]

I think ruckmen are a poor example of this

Most rucks don't hit their straps until they're 24/25 years old. And a lot are actually recruited from another club. They may not be getting an opportunity as a youngster at their current club (Jacobs) due to someone else having the role and not being able to break in for an extended run

Jacobs, Mumford, Warnock, Giles, Hale, Jolly, Hudson are all at their 2nd club or more

There may be more, as that was just off the top of my head

Rucks i feel are better suited to recruiting from another club, due to their longer times to mature and perform, with the exception of a Cox or Nic Nat who are freaks

Its safe to say that Curnow, Sellar, Pfeiffer and Lee haven't exactly set the AFL on fire in their 2nd stints

Mattner was an error due to NC's incompetence in what role to play him in and tried to curtail his natural flair

Gunston has done no more or no less then when he was with us.

Armstrong has had some more opportunities and he's been solid without being amazing. But he is playing for the premiers, so thats a tick for him

Bock has been injured, but played his best footy for us. If he had stayed and been injured as much as he has been at GC, we'd be pissed he isn't on the park

Davis hasn't gone onto amazing heights at GWS (yet) He's playing at the same very solid standard he did for us

It seems Mattner, Griffin and Maric are the best performers that have left the club in recent times, and i feel Mattner was a NC issue (but boy could we use his dash off HB now under Sando ) and that Maric and Griff are part of the "Ruckman age" rule

Griff was also extremely homesick with a sick dad. Its amazing what being home can do for some player's form and performance. Maybe for McKernan's sake, we'd be better off trading him to a Vic club. Then everyone would bitch we didn't get the best out for him when he chops But maybe some players were just not designed to be away from home.....

 

[Bicks]

You can throw in Mattner, Lee, Curnow... Even bloody Sellar and Pfeiffer for the sake of the argument.

Who have we brought in in that time that we have improved? Sauce

On our current list...

Thompson is the standout.

Jenkins will be the big mover in coming seasons IMO.

It could be argued too that Chris Knights, Ivan Maric and Griffin had to shape up with their new clubs as they were all on their last chance at AFL, fair bit of motivation there!!!!

Another factor not to be underestimated, all 3 are back home with their families and close friends.....worked for Thompson with us. Just listening to Chris Knights and Ivan Maric when interviewed on the radio over here, they both have mentioned how rapt they are to be back home close to their families and friends. To both guys credit they both spoke of their time at the Adelaide Football Club in extremely glowing terms.

In Griffin's case it was often mentioned he was homesick and to my eye he has certainly bulked up and seems to have a harder edge to his game, no longer a beanpole that seemed to have no heart for the contest, so most likely a "maturity issue.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

On our current list...

Thompson is the standout.

Jenkins will be the big mover in coming seasons IMO.

It could be argued too that Chris Knights, Ivan Maric and Griffin had to shape up with their new clubs as they were all on their last chance at AFL, fair bit of motivation there!!!!

Another factor not to be underestimated, all 3 are back home with their families and close friends.....worked for Thompson with us. Just listening to Chris Knights and Ivan Maric when interviewed on the radio over here, they both have mentioned how rapt they are to be back home close to their families and friends. To both guys credit they both spoke of their time at the Adelaide Football Club in extremely glowing terms.

In Griffin's case it was often mentioned he was homesick and to my eye he has certainly bulked up and seems to have a harder edge to his game, no longer a beanpole that seemed to have no heart for the contest, so most likely a "maturity issue.

Thompson left Melbourne 10 seasons ago.

I will give you Jenkins and Sauce.
Surely that is not good enough

 

[Cap]

I still don't understand what this thread is on about.

is Patrick Dangerfield shit all of a sudden? Matty Wright? Tex Walker? Talia? what about Riley? a guy who wouldn't have made an AFL list in heart beat is banging down the door for selection due to the development put into him from the AFC?

how many examples of A grade AFL players do we need to have produced before silly threads like this don't pop up? honestly.

The fact that Maric and Griffin are playing ok football is a testament to the development skills of the club, not the other way round.

 

[skoobydoo]

Agree. Griffin certainly stepped up last night and it was all about absolute effort. Needs more similar performances before he is rated as 'improved'. Armstrong similarly, his effectiveness is still in question with me. And I also think the Knights saga is yet to play out.
No doubt about Maric, but he has a huge work load and it will be a long season.

With every new coach there are players that fall in love with the coach and players that feel spurned or simply don't gel with the new arrangement. Bernard Vince? stagnating?

 

[Slippery Pete]

I still don't understand what this thread is on about.

is Patrick Dangerfield shit all of a sudden? Matty Wright? Tex Walker? Talia? what about Riley? a guy who wouldn't have made an AFL list in heart beat is banging down the door for selection due to the development put into him from the AFC?

how many examples of A grade AFL players do we need to have produced before silly threads like this don't pop up? honestly.

Fair post.

The players the OP is talking about haven't suddenly become A Graders at other clubs. They're playing ok football - they played ok football with us too.

One of the things Craig was roundly criticised for was his insistence on turning B graders into a "backbone" group who he relied on to win games, gave them big jobs, and elevated them into leadership positions. If anything, I think we've invested TOO much in B graders in the past, and that's been a much discussed topic in these parts. Spackler, hurry up and finish your breakfast.

I missed last night's game - did Knights have a good one? He must have, for this thread to have been created.

That takes Knights up to about four good games in four years.

 

[Bicks]

Thompson left Melbourne 10 seasons ago.

I will give you Jenkins and Sauce.
Surely that is not good enough

When you think about it we haven't really recruited many players from other clubs over recent times. Why we recruited Tambling and now Graham still baffles me, though in Tambling's case I think we only got him after negotiations fell over with Carlton re Andrew Walker who has since risen to far greater heights. I guess with Graham it was just to fill the "back up" ruck role when Ivan decided to move on for more opportunities elsewhere, though IMO Cameron Wood would have been a better option especially given he is a SA boy and may have lifted being home with family and friends....and we would have got him cheaper no doubt.

 

[Carmo]

I still don't understand what this thread is on about.

is Patrick Dangerfield shit all of a sudden? Matty Wright? Tex Walker? Talia? what about Riley? a guy who wouldn't have made an AFL list in heart beat is banging down the door for selection due to the development put into him from the AFC?

how many examples of A grade AFL players do we need to have produced before silly threads like this don't pop up? honestly.

Me either!

Which of these teams these guys are playing in finished higher than us last year? Which will finish higher than us this year?

Too much sky is falling cos we had an off start to the year.

Too much black and white in here, not enough grey, player is great or spud, and can be great one week and spud the next and then back to great again! amazing! Great team one year, shit one the next, that's us right? Or perhaps we were/are a bit more in the middle in both?????

 

[Bicks]

Thompson left Melbourne 10 seasons ago.

I will give you Jenkins and Sauce.
Surely that is not good enough

Ben Hudson I think it could be argued showed massive improvement after joining us from the VFL too!!!

Scott Stevens??

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Ben Hudson I think it could be argued showed massive improvement after joining us from the VFL too!!!

Scott Stevens??

Stevens was 10 seasons ago....
Hudson played his best footy when he left.

Out of the 16 established clubs we must be 16th in developing recycled players

 

[Slippery Pete]

Out of the 16 established clubs we must be 16th in developing recycled players

But we've had more 250 and 300 one-club players than any other club.

You can't have everything.

 

[Vader]

I was about to start the exact same thread.....

If I were an opposition club I would be targeting our fringe to average players like Hendo, Mackay, Douglas, Mckernan, Martin, Jaensch, Lyons....
And if you were a fringe player at Adelaide, I would be sniffing around elsewhere...

Griffin, Knights, Armstrong, Maric all almost ready for the chop.... Now playing bloody good football

Do we have a development problem? Is it the SANFL?

Hendo, Mackay and Douglas are not fringe players. McKernan, Martin, Jaensch & Lyons are. I really don't understand how you could include the first 3 players on the same list. Makes no sense at all.

 

[Vader]

You can throw in Mattner, Lee, Curnow... Even bloody Sellar and Pfeiffer for the sake of the argument.

Who have we brought in in that time that we have improved? Sauce

Jenkins, Lynch...

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Jenkins, Lynch...

Jenkins yes.

Last week you were saying Lynch has only looked lost so far for Adelaide

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Hendo, Mackay and Douglas are not fringe players. McKernan, Martin, Jaensch & Lyons are. I really don't understand how you could include the first 3 players on the same list. Makes no sense at all.

Where do you rathe these 3 on our list? I would say 15 plus