'Players running out of time' - WADA boss David Howman urges co-operation

[Daytripper]

No, it really wasn't

You don't get the ban discount unless you spill. No rainchecks.

Don't cry when they show no mercy later. You had your chance.

Smart move.

Sigh - the AFL set the penalty.
Jesus. Have people still not grasped this yet.

ASADA could say 2 years and the AFL could say 2 games and the penalty would be 2 games.

 

[rumply]

You are a funny one DT. Come out when there's a scerick of information that you think clears Essendon, then goes missing for days when the news is not good. Or are you tag teaming with mxett?

................

 

[the distributer]

"THE head of the World Anti-Doping Agency has warned the players at the centre of the current investigation into Australian sport they are running out of time to co-operate with the inquiry."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ges-co-operation/story-e6frg7mf-1226633428488

This is code for saying ''We haven't caught anyone yet, please hand yourselves in so we don't look like complete muppets!!"

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Hurry up guys, we got no evidence. We need to justify our pay packets and government funds.

Maybe they should start encouraging people to come forward by offering free Ipads.

Essendon would be front of the queue if it was free Ipeds

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Can we just clarify something, TODN.
Its most people on this particular part of the Big Footy board. Which as you know, is basically now Bay 13.

That is not indicative of broader society - at least I hope not as otherwise we have a lot of morons running around.

Broader society would toe the media line. Just reading comments attached to these articles tells me what the prevalent attitude is. Besides, we are on BigFooty talking about why Essendon supporters are defending this on BigFooty, so what the majority on here believe is very much the rule of thumb.

The greater point is that supporters support, until their position is untenable and everybody has a different interpretation as to when the untenable stage is reached.

 

[DermottsFacelift]

Sigh - the AFL set the penalty.
Jesus. Have people still not grasped this yet.

ASADA could say 2 years and the AFL could say 2 games and the penalty would be 2 games.

Then ASADA appeal the AFL's penalty and the players still get 2 years.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The only people bringing the comedy relief are the collective ****wits thinking Essendon are guilty as supposedly charged.

I hope you all have pretty damn good sorry letters waiting - the body of evidence of the stupidity is astounding by the brain-dead.

Pazz, at a minimum you guys are guilty of horrendous management practices - getting players to sign confidentiality agreements, shithouse record keeping, virtually no due diligence on your supplement program, ignoring concerns of your doctor, and creating a situation where your management cannot tell players they know 100% what supplements they took.

Even if the players avoid sanction, the AFL will go through you like a dose of salts for s**t management.

You have no chance of having EFC walk out of this clean. The only thing worth focusing on is determining who knew and did what (so you can fire their arse), and minimizing the impact upon the players (even if it means throwing everyone from Hird down under the bus).

If you're waiting for apology letters, you will be waiting a long time.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

BS. Any player who comes forward and brings forward the demise of Essendon will be treated like a god by opposition supporters. Would have absolutely no bearing at all on whether another club would pick them up.

Not sure. Surely after all the ASADA posturing and the heat this issue is drawing, a whistle-blower will look like they are coming forward to save their own skin, rather than out of any moral obligation. Unless the whistle-blower is someone that has not taken any substances themselves of course.

 

[Daytripper]

Broader society would toe the media line. Just reading comments attached to these articles tells me what the prevalent attitude is. Besides, we are on BigFooty talking about why Essendon supporters are defending this on BigFooty, so what the majority on here believe is very much the rule of thumb.

The greater point is that supporters support, until their position is untenable and everybody has a different interpretation as to when the untenable stage is reached.

Mate - I just want to get back to talking about football.

Oh for the days of Andrew Walker's hat.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Mate - I just want to get back to talking about football.

Oh for the days of Andrew Walker's hat.

Oh, the amount of times I have wanted something to just go away and focus on why we are really here. Sometimes it seems we are privy to too much for mere supporters. What I have seen can not be unseen. Innocence is lost.

 

[blackshadow]

Sigh - the AFL set the penalty.
Jesus. Have people still not grasped this yet.

ASADA could say 2 years and the AFL could say 2 games and the penalty would be 2 games.

Then WADA appeals to the CAS, WADA set the rules at the CAS.

You can bet the AFL want to get the sanctions right to avoid being made look incompetent by WADA.

 

[Daytripper]

Then WADA appeals to the CAS, WADA set the rules at the CAS.

You can bet the AFL want to get the sanctions right to avoid being made look incompetent by WADA.

I don't think that is humanly possible.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Then WADA appeals to the CAS, WADA set the rules at the CAS.

You can bet the AFL want to get the sanctions right to avoid being made look incompetent by WADA.

And the AFL would be rather keen to continue receiving Federal funding.

Want to thumb your nose at ASADA? It'll cost you...

 

[DapperDon]

And the AFL would be rather keen to continue receiving Federal funding.

Want to thumb your nose at ASADA? It'll cost you...

You get fired from your big city lawyer gig?

 

[Hearts to hearts]

stick to you bra burning, comedy is not your strong suit...

I can't find the "you're a dick" button.

 

[IanW]

Sigh - the AFL set the penalty.
Jesus. Have people still not grasped this yet.

ASADA could say 2 years and the AFL could say 2 games and the penalty would be 2 games.

The level of self-delusion is, as usual, stunning.

That very case happened with an amateur footy player. He got pinged for 9 months. ASADA appealed to CAS. CAS pinged him for 18 months.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/vf...upplement-anyway/story-fnelctok-1226450791290

Because you cant be bothered to understand how the rules work, heres the short version.

If ASADA or WADA dont like the AFL's penalty, they appeal to CAS, and what CAS says, goes.

17. APPEALS34

17.1 Decisions Subject to Appeal

Decisions made under this Code may be appealed as set out below. Such decisions
shall remain in effect while under appeal unless CAS or the Appeals Board orders
otherwise. Before an appeal is commenced, any post-decision review authorised in the
NAD Scheme must be exhausted.

(a) WADA Not Required to Exhaust Internal Remedies
Where WADA has a right to appeal under this Clause and no other party has
appealed a final decision within the process set out in this Code, WADA may
appeal such decision directly to CAS without having to exhaust other remedies
set out in this Code.35

http://www.aflvic.com.au/fileadmin/.../Club_Resources/AFL_Anti-Doping_Code_2010.pdf

 

[blackshadow]

I don't think that is humanly possible.

WADA are not human, they're an all powerful killing machine

 

[BF Tiger]

Correct - any player who whistle blew on a team-mate would never get picked up by another club again. And nor would I blame them to be honest.

The amount of abuse that player would get from opposition supporters would be astronomical.

What rubbish! There would be at least 10 players at the Bombers I'd be happy to have at Punt Road in that situation. If the club didn't look at, for example, Zaharakis, just because he had done the right thing I'd be very disappointed.

 

[Daytripper]

The level of self-delusion is, as usual, stunning.

That very case happened with an amateur footy player. He got pinged for 9 months. ASADA appealed to CAS. CAS pinged him for 18 months.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/vf...upplement-anyway/story-fnelctok-1226450791290

Because you cant be bothered to understand how the rules work, heres the short version.

If ASADA or WADA dont like the AFL's penalty, they appeal to CAS, and what CAS says, goes.

17. APPEALS34

17.1 Decisions Subject to Appeal

Decisions made under this Code may be appealed as set out below. Such decisions
shall remain in effect while under appeal unless CAS or the Appeals Board orders
otherwise. Before an appeal is commenced, any post-decision review authorised in the
NAD Scheme must be exhausted.

(a) WADA Not Required to Exhaust Internal Remedies
Where WADA has a right to appeal under this Clause and no other party has
appealed a final decision within the process set out in this Code, WADA may
appeal such decision directly to CAS without having to exhaust other remedies
set out in this Code.35

http://www.aflvic.com.au/fileadmin/.../Club_Resources/AFL_Anti-Doping_Code_2010.pdf

I don't know why I bother Ian but all I stated was that the AFL set the penalty not ASADA. Yes, the decision can be appealed but so could any decision the other way as well - ie if a penalty is too harsh it can be appealed. Refer recent Vijay Singh example.

Its on google.

 

[telsor]

And the AFL would be rather keen to continue receiving Federal funding.

Want to thumb your nose at ASADA? It'll cost you...

I try and post "wait until the investigation is complete" posts regarding guilt or innocence, but some people really need to work out how drugs in sport gets done.

Firstly, with WADA/CAS/etc. it doesn't take a lot of evidence before you're deemed guilty, and it doesn't have to be 'performance enhancing.

Secondly, the government provides a lot of funding to the AFL, and while I'm sure they wouldn't cut it all off over this, I'm sure there would be notable cuts if the AFL wasn't seen to be playing ball (and we all know Vlad loves the money).

Third, especially in the wake of Lance Armstrong, sponsors (etc) will be careful about associating with any organisation (both Essendon and the AFL more generally) with even a hint of the bad PR drugs will provide. The AFL will want very much to be seen as strong on this subject when handing out punishment.

I reiterate, I don't know what, if anything, Essendon has done, but anyone who thinks that anything that reaches WADAs low standard of guilt will be washed away with a slap with a wet lettuce leaf (AKA the Melbourne tanking punishment) is kidding themselves.

 

[blackshadow]

I try and post "wait until the investigation is complete" posts regarding guilt or innocence, but some people really need to work out how drugs in sport gets done.

Firstly, with WADA/CAS/etc. it doesn't take a lot of evidence before you're deemed guilty, and it doesn't have to be 'performance enhancing.

Secondly, the government provides a lot of funding to the AFL, and while I'm sure they wouldn't cut it all off over this, I'm sure there would be notable cuts if the AFL wasn't seen to be playing ball (and we all know Vlad loves the money).

Third, especially in the wake of Lance Armstrong, sponsors (etc) will be careful about associating with any organisation (both Essendon and the AFL more generally) with even a hint of the bad PR drugs will provide. The AFL will want very much to be seen as strong on this subject when handing out punishment.

I reiterate, I don't know what, if anything, Essendon has done, but anyone who thinks that anything that reaches WADAs low standard of guilt will be washed away with a slap with a wet lettuce leaf (AKA the Melbourne tanking punishment) is kidding themselves.

Excellent summary of the environment.

 

[blue harvest]

BS. Any player who comes forward and brings forward the demise of Essendon will be treated like a god by opposition supporters. Would have absolutely no bearing at all on whether another club would pick them up.

Not so sure on this, nobody likes a dibber dobber.

 

[IanW]

I don't know why I bother Ian but all I stated was that the AFL set the penalty not ASADA. Yes, the decision can be appealed but so could any decision the other way as well - ie if a penalty is too harsh it can be appealed. Refer recent Vijay Singh example.

Its on google.

When you said this

"ASADA could say 2 years and the AFL could say 2 games and the penalty would be 2 games."

you described the exact circumstance of Matt Clark. Which I cited, and then cited the rules under which that happened.

And did the AFL's penalty or the one ASADA wanted stick ?

Similarly, if the AFL wants to let off Essendon players, coaches or the club with a slap on the wrist and WADA wants them nailed to a tree, CAS will hear the penalty.

Festina doesnt compete in a lot of cycle races at the moment.

 

[rumply]

How completely and utterly condescending of you. Well done.

sorry, on reflection it was a tad over the top, original post edited,

 

[The Dodger]

Nobody still involved in the game wants to be the one that causes the dam to burst. I think they would rather 2 year bans than become a pariah in the AFL world. They might be lauded for being a whistle-blower from the outside, but I'd be surprised seeing their team take them back after they served their own 6 months. These teams are negotiating for the best joint outcome if they are found guilty, whilst still looking for technicalities and defences to avoid any penalty at all. The stalemate will remain and any bluff by ASADA will be tested.

If I was in that situation and I got whiff that the club had sent us up s**t creek I would see if you could organise the playing group as a whole and step forward. If the club f'd up they shouldn't begrudge the players trying to do whats best for them in this situ.