Autopsy Post Mortem vs Melbourne

[jackcass]

Think it's certainly a factor when we are playing Brown, Langdon, Crocker... because Wells, Goldsack, Reid and Elliot are missing. No way the club runs out with an inexperienced side like that if given the choice.

Think we accounted well for ourselves considering.

We had our chances even with those players playing.

 

[swiftdog]

I thought you had more quality players out but they were all replaceable. Can't replace a gun FF and an AA ruck

Elliott is just as important to a Collingwood as Hogan is to Melbourne. We're 4-2 with Elliott in the side and 1-5 without him this year. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation but there's no doubt about it, our forward line looks so much better with Elliott in there. He's our most important player (even more important than Pendlebury and Treloar in my opinion). Can't replace Gawn (and I presume Spencer is his immediate back-up?) but our inexperienced backline got shown up at times. Langdon, Maynard, Smith and Scharenberg are all young and relatively inexperienced and all made bad errors at some point (but did some nice things also). Replace just one of those with Goldsack, Reid, Varcoe or possibly Sinclair and it's probably enough to win. Does Gawn's injury = half the first-team back and half-back line? Who knows but all teams need to deal with injuries and your mids were good enough in the second half to rove to Grundy so got to give kudos for that.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

If Buckley doesn't play De Goey up front.. kiss kiss your coaching job goodbye.

 

[jackcass]

the only thing is melksham would have followed him to our forward line. where as you put pendles behind the ball it forces melksham to either create or Melbourne have to break the tag.

I think Melksham has played enough footy at HFF that he'd actually enjoy the player he's tagging taking him there.

 

[jackcass]

I thought you had more quality players out but they were all replaceable. Can't replace a gun FF and an AA ruck

Yeah, guessing an AA CHB and our best forward aren't even in the same discussion.

Just for your information...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=12&type=A&pid1=3625&pid2=3916&fid1=S&fid2=S

If you're going to be a troll, at least make it realistic.

 

[LeverPuller]

Phillips is going to be a worry.

For a guy who says "I can run all day", he has no acceleration in his game.
Jayden Hunt burnt him on multiple occassions 1v1 yesterday on the ground level ball.

He also has a tendency to kick the turf as much as he kicks the ball.
This results in drop punts that do not spin properly or fail to have any penetration of around 35-40m.

Sure he kicked 2 goals but they were relatively easy under very little pressure and he didn't have to kick a drop punt.

I'm not sure what role he will have moving forward because he lacks speed and evasiveness to play forward of centre, is poor 1v1 to be a half back and isn't skilled inside enough to be an inside midfielder with quick hands.

Wouldn't judge him on this, Hunt is a nightmare for any defensive forward. Outran the Cathy Freeman at Scienceworks in the week.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Aish was 1 of our Better Players

Did lol.

As soon as the heat went into the game Aish went straight out of it. Shame because he started okay.

 

[DaVe86]

Putting aside the fact we lost it was an enthralling contest and a great game, maybe building the old rivalry again.

We looked very good in the first half at times, with most of their goals being gifted by our poor turnovers. The game should have been iced at half time but we gave them a sniff and they were good enough to take it.

I think we did run out of legs, which is why we needed that bugger. Has been little mention of the fact that we were coming off a trip to Perth where we were down 2 rotations. Melbourne on the other hand was nice & fresh off the bye. I don't like excuses but that played more a part than any umpiring decisions. Its another game that we should have won - there is quite a pile now and we really have been a bees dick from a great season to a bad season. With maturity, they will learn how to win when the opportunity is there to take.

Again our forward line looks disjointed with Greenwood somehow being our go to man, good to see Fas show a bit though. I am ho-hum on Crocker, he tries hard and does the right things but he may just not have enough top end ability to be anything more than a role player, I hope he proves me wrong. I do feel like Mayne would have been suited to a game like yesterday where the heat was on and he could apply his pressure game.

There was some positives with guys like Aish, Broomhead, Scharenburg & Maynard all looking that bit better. Maynard's smothers were great to see. Langdon had his problems but I did forget how good he is in the air. Tough game to make a come back in and will be better for the run. Brown similarly stepped into a hot game on debut, but he didn't take a backward step.

On the downside, we made some bad errors. I am a big fan of Adams but he must learn his limitations. He can't be the one to take the risks by foot. He really needs to sit down with a guy like Luke Ball. Ball was a great player but knew he was not a great kick so he never went for too much, he focused on bringing others into the game. I think Adams needs to be the player bringing others into the game, by winning the ball and giving it to a runner or a good ball user. These type of players like Ball are more valuable than most as they lift the guys around them at the expense of their own kudos.

Grundy dominated the ruck but second half we lost the clearances and he got beaten around the ground. This I think is a fatigue issue and the bye comes at a good time for him. Moore has given him some chop out but I think both are on the verge of a burn out. It is really important to manage them through the year and not just use them up until they break down. Mason Cox does need to come in and carry some load for these guys.

I think all that is pretty well summarized. Adams had a shocker. He has been ok by foot this year, but when the pressure was on his footskills turned to water, as did his decision making. He needs to play to be smarter with the ball. He cost us 2 first half goals when we could've really run away with the game.

Hard to assess Grundy's game. He was obviously dominant in the hitouts, but it didn't translate to clearances in the 2nd half. Was his ruck-work poor, were our midfielders poor, were their midfielders just good, or are the structures too predictable???????? Either way, we should've at least been breaking even and in the end Melbourne really got the ascendency.

The bye comes at an ok time given the injuries, but I do feel like we have been playing decent footy. let's hope we come out after the bye with the same intensity.

Can't fault the endeavor.

 

[LeverPuller]

hahaha are you for real... The Cathy Freeman at sciencworks. mate of mine nearly died cause a fuse blew on the isolator switch, Dave Hughes was right when he slagged off scienceworks...

Okay, you try running 15m off a standing start in under 2 seconds.

What I was trying to show is just how bloody fast he is. He is in the top 5 quickest players in the comp in a sprint IMO.

Phillips is a damn good player but he isn't the first to have his colours lowered by Hunt this year.

 

[DaVe86]

Good performance overall, but due to our pathetic start to the season good performances don't cut the mustard.

It irks me that Greenwood missed that set shot from 30 out dead in front, that the umpire pinged him for holding the ball, that WHE didn't charge Watts when he had support in behind Garlett and that we allowed so many one on one's in our D50, but what irked me most was the lack of action from the coaches box.

Melbourne rolled the dice in the third and ran numbers off the back of the square enabling them to get on top at the stoppages and we had no way to counteract it. The inability to free up Pendles. Forward or back it didn't matter, but he needed to be moved away from the contest where he had no positive impact in the second half.

Those sorts of moves would have had more of an influence on the contest than the umpires, which it appears are in the gun, but we blew it and our season now hangs by a thread when we had a fantastic opportunity to consolidate our position in the lead up to the bye. Its equal parts disappointing and frustrating just like the past 3 years have been overall.

It's been our problem for years now.....when the opposition puts loose men behind the ball, we get exploited. We have never had an answer to it. Probably because we haven't had a dominant half back ourselves since Heath Shaw left. If they have Hunt, and we have Smith...I know which side is going to get the advantage.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Elliott is just as important to a Collingwood as Hogan is to Melbourne. We're 4-2 with Elliott in the side and 1-5 without him this year. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation but there's no doubt about it, our forward line looks so much better with Elliott in there. He's our most important player (even more important than Pendlebury and Treloar in my opinion). Can't replace Gawn (and I presume Spencer is his immediate back-up?) but our inexperienced backline got shown up at times. Langdon, Maynard, Smith and Scharenberg are all young and relatively inexperienced and all made bad errors at some point (but did some nice things also). Replace just one of those with Goldsack, Reid, Varcoe or possibly Sinclair and it's probably enough to win. Does Gawn's injury = half the first-team back and half-back line? Who knows but all teams need to deal with injuries and your mids were good enough in the second half to rove to Grundy so got to give kudos for that.

I was hoping spencer would play then Melbourne would be a bit more optimistic around stoppages and perhaps let us work cleaner there as well. without spencer they played purely to grundy and in the second half out muscled our mids.

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

Phillips is going to be a worry.

For a guy who says "I can run all day", he has no acceleration in his game.
Jayden Hunt burnt him on multiple occassions 1v1 yesterday on the ground level ball.

He also has a tendency to kick the turf as much as he kicks the ball.
This results in drop punts that do not spin properly or fail to have any penetration of around 35-40m.

Sure he kicked 2 goals but they were relatively easy under very little pressure and he didn't have to kick a drop punt.

I'm not sure what role he will have moving forward because he lacks speed and evasiveness to play forward of centre, is poor 1v1 to be a half back and isn't skilled inside enough to be an inside midfielder with quick hands.

Tad Harsh. Jayden Hunt would burn anyone, the headband has next level speed and acceleration. I have been a bit critical of Phillips in the past but both his goals and the one he set up to sidebottom gives me a more positive feel towards him. The pleasing thing about the first goal he kicked was he took his time, summed up the situation and delivered a perfect snap. Many young players in that situation we see just chuck it on the boot. His second goal while a relatively easy goal, I don't think we can under sell the pick up at pace also given the stage of the match.

In saying that Phillips worries me with his decision making, but yesterday's game was much better!

 

[CarnMags]

I refuse to turn on any of our players after that loss - everyone gave it there all.

Like all of us, I am fuming with the umpires - specifically:

1. The holding free kick to Jack Watts in the pocket in Q1 - resulted in a goal
2. The chopping the arm free kick to McDonald 20m out on QT - resulted in a goal
3. Maynard called for throwing in Q3, when he didn't even have disposal of the ball - resulting in a shot goal (I believe?)
4. The no-call to Adams when clearly pushed in the back in Q4 - resulting in a turnover as we entered F50
5. The no-call on Hunt who had prior opportunity and dropped the ball in Q4 in our F50
6. The Greenwood holding the ball in F50 in Q4 - giving the Dees the release kick out of defence
7. The Sidebottom holding the ball in F50 in Q4- giving the Dees the release kick out of defence

This just killed us.

The blatant inconsistency within a 60 second period just baffled me. The game was hot - umpires clearly get caught up in the moment, and need to recognise this and put the whistle away unless it is an absolute clear free. It's not the ones they don't pay - it's the ones they do....

 

[TradeDraft]

I've officially calmed down now. Fair to say I may have overreacted a touch but that's why you all love me.

I am still Pissed at the Umps

 

[TheSierBear]

Okay, you try running 15m off a standing start in under 2 seconds.

What I was trying to show is just how bloody fast he is. He is in the top 5 quickest players in the comp in a sprint IMO.

Phillips is a damn good player but he isn't the first to have his colours lowered by Hunt this year.

He might be quick but that cathy freeman beep thing is a shambles. Put it this way a fuse blew on the Cathy Freeman isolator switch causing a power outage to the suburb of Spotswood and it is so dilapidated that it's been nearly a year and still not fixed. I know for a fact that their electronics for all the other educational science activities are out of whack.

Scienceworks is a shambles most of all this Cathy Freeman beep test your talking about.

 

[bucksisbest]

I refuse to turn on any of our players after that loss - everyone gave it there all.

Like all of us, I am fuming with the umpires - specifically:

1. The holding free kick to Jack Watts in the pocket in Q1 - resulted in a goal
2. The chopping the arm free kick to McDonald 20m out on QT - resulted in a goal
3. Maynard called for throwing in Q3, when he didn't even have disposal of the ball - resulting in a shot goal (I believe?)
4. The no-call to Adams when clearly pushed in the back in Q4 - resulting in a turnover as we entered F50
5. The no-call on Hunt who had prior opportunity and dropped the ball in Q4 in our F50
6. The Greenwood holding the ball in F50 in Q4 - giving the Dees the release kick out of defence
7. The Sidebottom holding the ball in F50 in Q4- giving the Dees the release kick out of defence

This just killed us.

The blatant inconsistency within a 60 second period just baffled me. The game was hot - umpires clearly get caught up in the moment, and need to recognise this and put the whistle away unless it is an absolute clear free. It's not the ones they don't pay - it's the ones they do....

Good specific, pick ups there, that I agreed with. There has to be 50 free kicks inside 50 if you are going to pay the Watts and McDonald ones in the first quarter and then it got to farcical levels, especially late in the last when it got tight.

I'm still working through venting about this, so I can then go on to be more analytical about the actual game

 

[Fonzeno1]

Wouldn't judge him on this, Hunt is a nightmare for any defensive forward. Outran the Cathy Freeman at Scienceworks in the week.

That scienceworks thing is about as accurate as the pies set shots this year. Means absolutely nothing!

 

[Fruit]

Hopefully yesterday reinforces something I've been banging on about for a long time. Surely we can never draft another player who doesn't have excellent disposal again regardless of how tough they are, how much of the ball they get or how good they are one on one. There's just no room for players who turn over the ball any more. It's an opposition goal more often than not. How many players did Hawks have during their success that had average disposal?

 

[TradeDraft]

Hopefully yesterday reinforces something I've been banging on about for a long time. Surely we can never draft another player who doesn't have excellent disposal again regardless of how tough they are, how much of the ball they get or how good they are one on one. There's just no room for players who turn over the ball any more. It's an opposition goal more often than not. How many players did Hawks have during their success that had average disposal?

But Hine and Bucks and co like there Contested Mids that are Poor Kicks

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I'm a better kick than that.

I do not doubt that!

 

[Roverjg]

I refuse to turn on any of our players after that loss - everyone gave it there all.

Like all of us, I am fuming with the umpires - specifically:

1. The holding free kick to Jack Watts in the pocket in Q1 - resulted in a goal
2. The chopping the arm free kick to McDonald 20m out on QT - resulted in a goal
3. Maynard called for throwing in Q3, when he didn't even have disposal of the ball - resulting in a shot goal (I believe?)
4. The no-call to Adams when clearly pushed in the back in Q4 - resulting in a turnover as we entered F50
5. The no-call on Hunt who had prior opportunity and dropped the ball in Q4 in our F50
6. The Greenwood holding the ball in F50 in Q4 - giving the Dees the release kick out of defence
7. The Sidebottom holding the ball in F50 in Q4- giving the Dees the release kick out of defence

This just killed us.

The blatant inconsistency within a 60 second period just baffled me. The game was hot - umpires clearly get caught up in the moment, and need to recognise this and put the whistle away unless it is an absolute clear free. It's not the ones they don't pay - it's the ones they do....

Whilst I agree that the above decisions (particularly 2 and 3) and some impact on the outcome, I am more upset at the 12.9 that Melbourne kicked from our direct turnovers, particularly when we had the run of play.

Sidebottom's dicky little kicks costs us two goals. He marked at HB and had a player on his own 25m up the ground to his right, but his stopped and turned back and to his left and tried to hit up a player on a one on two situation.

Crisp (1), Smith (2), Scharenberg (1), Adams (2) all cost us by going back and across

 

[ThePhantom777]

Our other mids should have been smashing Melksham when he was tagging Pendles. That's something missing from our current midfield. Treloar is not that kind of guy. Needed to put Greenwood in there or tell DeGoey to throw his big body around a bit.

 

[ZEV]

There is one question that I need to ask of somebody that was actually at the game. In the turnover where Melbourne scored their first goal, did Sidebottom actually kick it into Hannan from Melbourne or did he intercept it? Its hard to see on the replay but to me it looks like his arms were defending himself from the ball rather than trying to attack it.

 

[Countrypie]

Hopefully yesterday reinforces something I've been banging on about for a long time. Surely we can never draft another player who doesn't have excellent disposal again regardless of how tough they are, how much of the ball they get or how good they are one on one. There's just no room for players who turn over the ball any more. It's an opposition goal more often than not. How many players did Hawks have during their success that had average disposal?

ON the flipside, Geelong were exposed last year for having too many outside players who couldn't win their own ball. Every side has an in and under player with the possible exception of GWS. Trouble is we probably have 1 or 2 too many

 

[Anzacday]

There is one question that I need to ask of somebody that was actually at the game. In the turnover where Melbourne scored their first goal, did Sidebottom actually kick it into Hannan from Melbourne or did he intercept it? Its hard to see on the replay but to me it looks like his arms were defending himself from the ball rather than trying to attack it.

Kicked it into him.