Primus - how is the gloss looking

[Kimbo]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I don't confess to knowing much about how Primus is coaching, but the body language today from him (and the whole coaching box) mirrored that of the players on the ground.

It must hurt to feel so early in his tenure that you have no confidence in the coach. After paying out Choco's contract early, you can't really do it again. Hope for your sake guys that things turn around (with a brief respite in Rd 14) otherwise it's going to be a long journey.

 

[finbarr]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

It's certainly no coincidence Williams enjoyed his most success when he had a well resourced football department and the best support staff in the league. You really have to feel for Primus. When the cameras pan up to the box and you see part timers like Laidley and Bishop sitting there you can see what he's up against.

 

[Pedro59]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

and all the doofus' behind choco are still there

this....

I'll give MP his year but for #### sake get in new assistants

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

and all the doofus' behind choco are still there

this....

I'll give MP his year but for #### sake get in new assistants

I suggest that you ring Whicker and ask him if we are allowed to spend an extra $1m in the footy department, because that is what it is going to take to get 'good' assistants.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I suggest that you ring Whicker and ask him if we are allowed to spend an extra $1m in the footy department, because that is what it is going to take to get 'good' assistants.

You're hammering this point home, and there is a bit to it, but I don't think it's purely down to the $$. You can always find the 'next big thing' or a hungry newcomer looking to stake their claim to an assistant coaching role. The MLB's Oakland A's have shown their ability to extract the best value for money by getting the underpriced, yet smart, options (albeit in terms of their playing, not coaching, roster).

In other words, I'd hate to see us throw our hands in the air and not get assistants from elsewhere (i.e. more jobs for the boys) because the money isn't there. Just allocate it smartly.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I wanted Primus to get the job at the end of last year.

I was very very wrong. I have zero faith in him. I get embarrassed when I even think about the fact that he is our coach.

Whereas at the time I wasn't sure Primus was our best option but now I couldn't be happier.
We were on a road to nowhere and now we seem to be trying to find a direction. It will take time and the road will be very bumpy but there are no shortcuts.

 

[PhoenixPower]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I have ZERO faith in him and our game plan that looks stagnant and useless continually having us empty up forward and always stopping and kicking down the boundary to a contest rather than the run and carry through the middle

 

[manureid]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Whereas at the time I wasn't sure Primus was our best option but now I couldn't be happier.
We were on a road to nowhere and now we seem to be trying to find a direction. It will take time and the road will be very bumpy but there are no shortcuts.

I will give you full credit for your optimism......or I am going to ask you who your dealer is?

 

[ClintEastwood]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We were on a road to nowhere and now we seem to be trying to find a direction. It will take time and the road will be very bumpy but there are no shortcuts.

This is exactly the situation, and it will take a considerable time to really know if Primus is moving us in the right direction.

At the moment we have no idea really, if he is doing so. We're up shit creek without any bearings to tell us if the guy in the bow of the canoe is steering us in the right direction.

****.

My intuition tells me he's not the right guy, but I hope to **** he is.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

You're hammering this point home, and there is a bit to it, but I don't think it's purely down to the $$. You can always find the 'next big thing' or a hungry newcomer looking to stake their claim to an assistant coaching role. The MLB's Oakland A's have shown their ability to extract the best value for money by getting the underpriced, yet smart, options (albeit in terms of their playing, not coaching, roster).

In other words, I'd hate to see us throw our hands in the air and not get assistants from elsewhere (i.e. more jobs for the boys) because the money isn't there. Just allocate it smartly.

We tried to get Neeld, McCartney and one other assistant but couldn't - I suspect it had to do with money and the perception of our club in that order.

I know that it is an easy cop out, but compare our coaching spend to say Essendon and Collingwood - we would be spending less than half that they are.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

'Less than half' is probably a nice way of putting it. I'm betting half their assistants are on more than our actual coach.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I have ZERO faith in him and our game plan that looks stagnant and useless continually having us empty up forward and always stopping and kicking down the boundary to a contest rather than the run and carry through the middle

That is not our main problem and has not been our main problem for years.
Our biggest issue is and has been our midfield.
We have
Two of Rodan and Pearce.
Two of Kornes and Cassisi.
Two of Thomas and Logan.
Two of Broadbent and (name any one of many here).
Two of Boak and Salopek.

Before anyone mentions Hartlett and Gray, just remember that Hartlett was being played as a HBF and Gray as a HFF.

Individually all good players but balanced it isn't and hasn't been for years.
Because of this our defence is under the pump more often than not and our forward line doesn't get the delivery it should.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

After watching the first few minutes of today's game, I'll say that one thing I have NOT been at all happy with about Primus so far this year, is his apparent inability to get the players PUMPED when they come out in the first quarter (or at just about any time, for that matter, 2nd-3rd quarter of the Showdown notwithstanding).

To me this is one of the central functions of the coach - manipulation of the mental state of the group.

Primus couldn't get our guys to start at full pace, even with the shitstorm that they currently find themselves in, but Brad Scott could for the Roos.

Not a good sign.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

'Less than half' is probably a nice way of putting it. I'm betting half their assistants are on more than our actual coach.

I think you are correct here - but the $ issue won't looked at until it starts to impact on the hybrids, and based on the way their crowds are going - 33k tonight - it might be sooner than later.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I will give you full credit for your optimism......or I am going to ask you who your dealer is?

Optimism is not quite the right word.
I am 100% with Pred except for the last part.

I would replace it with "I do not know if he's the right guy or not, but I hope to **** he is. What we do know from his playing days is that he is a good/superb leader and (from what we have seen so far) we also know that he is trying."

This is exactly the situation, and it will take a considerable time to really know if Primus is moving us in the right direction.

At the moment we have no idea really, if he is doing so. We're up shit creek without any bearings to tell us if the guy in the bow of the canoe is steering us in the right direction.

****.

My intuition tells me he's not the right guy, but I hope to **** he is.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Optimism is not quite the right word.
I am 100% with Pred except for the last part.

I would replace it with "I do not know if he's the right guy or not, but I hope to **** he is. What we do know from his playing days is that he is a good/superb leader and (from what we have seen so far) we also know that he is trying."

I have a similar view and Matty needs time to show the way - it's only fair as we should do to the rookies.

Irrespective of results by season end, part of his measure will be who gets chopped (hard decisions, not the obvious ones) and who is playing by round 22 - that will tell us that this year has been determined to be a watershed for the playing list.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

What we do know from his playing days is that he is a good/superb leader and (from what we have seen so far) we also know that he is trying."

Yes, but he is not the captain now, he is the coach.

Whether he was a good/superb leader as a player is not the point - we need a guy or two out on the FIELD being that. He needs to be a smart enough guy to be able to read and manipulate the psyche of an entire squad from week to week. He needs to be super intelligent and have impeccable knowledge of the game. I'm not convinced at all on either of these counts, let alone him being able to get a group of blokes "up" as a coach, even though he seemed to be able to do it as a player.

 

[kaysee]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

That is not our main problem and has not been our main problem for years.
Our biggest issue is and has been our midfield.
We have
Two of Rodan and Pearce.
Two of Kornes and Cassisi.
Two of Thomas and Logan.
Two of Broadbent and (name any one of many here).
Two of Boak and Salopek.

Before anyone mentions Hartlett and Gray, just remember that Hartlett was being played as a HBF and Gray as a HFF.

Individually all good players but balanced it isn't and hasn't been for years.
Because of this our defence is under the pump more often than not and our forward line doesn't get the delivery it should.

This is the problem... they're not all good players... they're capable of playing good football, but they all have problems sustaining it.

 

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We tried to get Neeld, McCartney and one other assistant but couldn't - I suspect it had to do with money and the perception of our club in that order.

Neeld and McCartney applied for the senior position. Not sure if we had the temerity to offer them a 2IC role after that.

Neeld wouldn't have been anywhere near top coin before he made his bones at the Lexus Centre though, and that's the lesson.

If we actually cast our net wider than a few freshly retired Chocobots on bottom dollar I'm sure we could find some fresh talent and ideas without breaking the bank.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Yes, but he is not the captain now, he is the coach.

Whether he was a good/superb leader as a player is not the point - we need a guy or two out on the FIELD being that. He needs to be a smart enough guy to be able to read and manipulate the psyche of an entire squad from week to week. He needs to be super intelligent and have impeccable knowledge of the game. I'm not convinced at all on either of these counts, let alone him being able to get a group of blokes "up" as a coach, even though he seemed to be able to do it as a player.

Right said Pred.

 

[finbarr]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is the problem... they're not all good players... they're capable of playing good football, but they all have problems sustaining it.

They were good enough to get drafted onto an AFL list. At this level the gap in raw talent right across the board should be fairly marginal. They all have two arms, two legs and a brain. Some players just apply themselves better and work harder at what they do.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Neeld and McCartney applied for the senior position. Not sure if we had the temerity to offer them a 2IC role after that.

Neeld wouldn't have been anywhere near top coin before he made his bones at the Lexus Centre though, and that's the lesson.

If we actually cast our net wider than a few freshly retired Chocobots on bottom dollar I'm sure we could find some fresh talent and ideas without breaking the bank.

Theoretically I agree, but you only have to look at what it took to get Falloon to come to SA and then realise how hard it is to attract talent - the Vic clubs are going to do what we are and they will usually get first dibs on these guys unless we offer a shipload more money - which we don't have or are not allowed to spend.

 

[*PAF]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Yes, but he is not the captain now, he is the coach.

Whether he was a good/superb leader as a player is not the point - we need a guy or two out on the FIELD being that. He needs to be a smart enough guy to be able to read and manipulate the psyche of an entire squad from week to week. He needs to be super intelligent and have impeccable knowledge of the game. I'm not convinced at all on either of these counts, let alone him being able to get a group of blokes "up" as a coach, even though he seemed to be able to do it as a player.

He needs time. Malthouse was given time and he was an experienced coach to start with.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

He needs time.

I could have sworn I said that...

 

[PJ Power]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Great posting, Pred.

Primus' biggest failure at present (amidst plenty of them) is that he is not getting the players, other than Brogan, to play with any sort of passion or emotion. Their demeanour on the field reflects his off it. I'm all for cool and composed, but there's a time and a place to implore the players to play with heart and passion or force it from them. He's not doing this and it's the most heartbreaking aspect of all of this.