Discussion Prison Bars debate

Should Port be allowed to wear the PBs as their home jumper?


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TheLoungeLizard

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Apples There is no "current AFL incarnation of Port" the Port in the AFL is the exact same Port from the SANFL - they just moved leagues - similar to how clubs do in English Football.

A new Port was created for the SANFL after that fir historical reasons and around 2010 the two clubs merged together again to have one united Port across both (like how Collingwood have a seniors and reserves)

The AFL and SANFL both have historical links to the PBs and it is historically their jumper
 

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Heardy_101

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Apples There is no "current AFL incarnation of Port" the Port in the AFL is the exact same Port from the SANFL - they just moved leagues - similar to how clubs do in English Football.

A new Port was created for the SANFL after that fir historical reasons and around 2010 the two clubs merged together again to have one united Port across both (like how Collingwood have a seniors and reserves)

The AFL and SANFL both have historical links to the PBs and it is historically their jumper
Sssshh

You're letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

When do we tell him that there's no much thing as the Port Power FC?
 

El_Scorcho

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As long as Port have control over when and where we wear the heritage guernsey and don't have to ask permission, I'd be very happy with this.

That's all we want, control over our when we wear our guernsey within AFL clash rules.
 

El_Scorcho

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Let's get a few facts straight regarding the Port prison bars. The current AFL iteration of Port Adelaide Power has no claim whatsoever on black and white stripes or the magpie logo.

When Port entered the competition in 1997, it was provisional upon them agreeing to forfeit all claims to black and white stripes and the magpie logo. That should be the end of the argument. I do understand the history of Port Adelaide and why Port fans would like the team to wear the stripes and adopt the magpie logo, but the deal was agreed to by Port Power's leaders and the AFL. Collingwood was adamant that Port could not wear black and white stripes, the AFL agreed and Port signed off. That's it.

Regardless of later deals between Port and Collingwood for Heritage Round, where Collingwood obliged Port's request, the original deal and contract must stand. Tim Lane's thinly disguised Collingwood hate on Friday night on 3AW, suggested that Port being the only new club that came into the AFL from an existing entity, should be able to wear black and white stripes. I suspect Tim would would do an about face if Carlton's beloved jumper were challenged in the same way.

David Koch and the current PA leadership is being disingenuous in trying to bully Collingwood and the AFL into submission. As far as I'm concerned, Port has no legal right to the stripes or the magpies and Koch and Co are winding up their supporter base in order to get its own way.

Collingwood agreed to allow Port to wear the stripes once a year for Heritage Round. All good. Then Port requested to wear the stripes for their 150 Anniversary. Collingwood complied. All good.

Because the Heritage Round no longer exists, Port now asks for permission to wear the stripes twice a year for Showdowns. This would be the thin edge of the wedge. What's next? Port plays a home final and thinks it deserves the right to wear the stripes? Port makes the grand final and makes a request? Where does it end? The supporters have already embraced the stripes and magpie and it is seen Port merchandise at every game.

Port and Koch have offered up plenty of rhetoric and emotional clap trap, but precious little objective evidence for their ongoing, tedious campaign.
They have undermined the rules regarding the colours and logo at every opportunity. The coaching panel wears colours that might as well be Collingwood's. It's all black with a PA logo, white stripes and a scintilla of teal. It is taking every opportunity to get its own way and undermine Collingwood and the AFL's trademark.

Port currently has a fantastic official jumper. They won an AFL premiership wearing teal, black and white. It's one of the better guernseys in the league. Instead of embracing their colours, Koch and Co hark back to the past and embolden their supporters in an unwinnable quest.

As a compromise, perhaps Collingwood could agree to allowing Port to wear the stripes in one Showdown per year. Either that, or perhaps Collingwood could offer up this alternative prison bar design.

View attachment 1117548
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jakson68

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I for one think Port should be able to wear their prison bar jumper.
In their 200th anniversary!

If we give into this minnow club, where will it stop. They already have sneaked in the magpie emblem on their scarfs, their trainers and coaches nearly look the same as Collingwood.
I am afraid that Mr Koch unfortunately thinks his little club has way more clout than what it does.
Come back and beg again in another 50 years, maybe then Port might be able to stand on their own two feet and have become relevant to the league.

If Port want to wear the prison bars, that is fine but make the bars Teal.
 

TheLoungeLizard

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Sssshh

You're letting the facts get in the way of a good story.

When do we tell him that there's no much thing as the Port Power FC?
Do you know what Port is legally registered as?

It wouldn't surprise me if they are still Port Adelaide Magpies, trading as Port Adelaide Power (similar to Footscray/Western Bulldogs)
 

Heardy_101

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I for one think Port should be able to wear their prison bar jumper.
In their 200th anniversary!

If we give into this minnow club, where will it stop. They already have sneaked in the magpie emblem on their scarfs, their trainers and coaches nearly look the same as Collingwood.
I am afraid that Mr Koch unfortunately thinks his little club has way more clout than what it does.
Come back and beg again in another 50 years, maybe then Port might be able to stand on their own two feet and have become relevant to the league.

If Port want to wear the prison bars, that is fine but make the bars Teal.
Everyone in this thread is now dumber thanks to your post
 

Apples

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As long as Port have control over when and where we wear the heritage guernsey and don't have to ask permission, I'd be very happy with this.

That's all we want, control over our when we wear our guernsey within AFL clash rules.
And there ladies and gents, is the issue. Power supporters still want the club to agitate for control over when it wears the heritage jumper.
I think I could tolerate Port wearing its black and white stripes once a year for its home Showdown clash. At all other times it must wear the jumper the AFL deems appropriate. All clubs need to abide by that rule. Port is nothing special in this regard.
 

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El_Scorcho

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And there ladies and gents, is the issue. Power supporters still want the club to agitate for control over when it wears the heritage jumper.
I think I could tolerate Port wearing its black and white stripes once a year for its home Showdown clash. At all other times it must wear the jumper the AFL deems appropriate. All clubs need to abide by that rule. Port is nothing special in this regard.
This isn't a gotcha.

We want control over when we wear our own playing uniform at home, just like every other major sports team in the world has.
 

Spuddd

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This isn't a gotcha.

We want control over when we wear our own playing uniform at home, just like every other major sports team in the world has.
I think you'll find a lot of leagues govern what jumpers can be worn and when, its rarely a free for all.

Lets just prefix the next part by saying, yes I am a Collingwood supporter.

But what gets me is the whole selling prison bar jumpers for commercial gain, which is in breach of the signed agreement.

Just like most things in life, if you want something changed its much easier to play by the rules and build some trust. Going rogue is only going to anger those that have input into the decision.

For that reason alone, I'm comfortable with the current stance.
 

bomberclifford

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But what gets me is the whole selling prison bar jumpers for commercial gain, which is in breach of the signed agreement.
The only prison bar guernseys we've sold have been approved by AFL/Collingwood or are for the SANFL side.

This year however, we cannot sell our SANFL guernsey because it has our new logo on it, which is an AFL trademark. So we are abiding by that agreement/directive.

Interestingly though, we CAN sell a heritage SANFL bars guernsey with our old Magpie logo on it.
 

Prison bar Pete

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But what gets me is the whole selling prison bar jumpers for commercial gain, which is in breach of the signed agreement.
What is the problem with us selling prison bar jumpers anyway? How does this affect Collingwood at all? How will this affect Collingwood's bottom line? As a club we need all the money we can get at the moment! If the AFL is genuine in making our club a success then it would be encouraging and promoting the sale of as many of these jumpers as possible. If an agreement is outdated &/or unreasonable then it should be abandoned or renegotiated.
 

Spuddd

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The only prison bar guernseys we've sold have been approved by AFL/Collingwood or are for the SANFL side.

This year however, we cannot sell our SANFL guernsey because it has our new logo on it, which is an AFL trademark. So we are abiding by that agreement/directive.

Interestingly though, we CAN sell a heritage SANFL bars guernsey with our old Magpie logo on it.
This is not true.
What is the problem with us selling prison bar jumpers anyway? How does this affect Collingwood at all? How will this affect Collingwood's bottom line? As a club we need all the money we can get at the moment! If the AFL is genuine in making our club a success then it would be encouraging and promoting the sale of as many of these jumpers as possible. If an agreement is outdated &/or unreasonable then it should be abandoned or renegotiated.
You’re not getting at the point. There is/was an agreement that the jumper wouldn’t be sold.

The agreement was broken.

That’s where the issue lies for me.
 

El_Scorcho

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I think you'll find a lot of leagues govern what jumpers can be worn and when, its rarely a free for all.

Lets just prefix the next part by saying, yes I am a Collingwood supporter.

But what gets me is the whole selling prison bar jumpers for commercial gain, which is in breach of the signed agreement.

Just like most things in life, if you want something changed its much easier to play by the rules and build some trust. Going rogue is only going to anger those that have input into the decision.

For that reason alone, I'm comfortable with the current stance.
Can you think of another example like ours, where a club publicly wants to wear it's most famous uniform but is specifically banned from doing so by the league?

I can't.

We've been playing by the rules for 25 years and we've really gotten nowhere with it. We don't have any more control over the use of our own guernsey any more than we did in 1997. The supporters got fed up and have started a campaign that's now publicly supported by the club.

Civil disobedience gets results. We haven't resorted to it yet, but there is a significant portion of the supporter base who'd be happy to cop the 4 point penalty this week, and those feelings will only get stronger the longer we are denied.
 

Spuddd

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Can you think of another example like ours, where a club publicly wants to wear it's most famous uniform but is specifically banned from doing so by the league?

I can't.

We've been playing by the rules for 25 years and we've really gotten nowhere with it. We don't have any more control over the use of our own guernsey any more than we did in 1997. The supporters got fed up and have started a campaign that's now publicly supported by the club.

Civil disobedience gets results. We haven't resorted to it yet, but there is a significant portion of the supporter base who'd be happy to cop the 4 point penalty this week, and those feelings will only get stronger the longer we are denied.
I mean, Richmond didn’t want to wear their yellow jumper in the 2017 grand final...


There’s a lot of huffing and puffing but the simple answer to this is take the argument to court.

Get a ruling one way or another.
 

El_Scorcho

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This is not true.
Yes, it is. The AFL approved everything we sell with an AFL logo on it. Without their approval, we're not allowed to sell it.

We currently don't have approval to sell our SANFL Guernsey because it has the club logo on it, with rights owned by the AFL who haven't provided approval.

You’re not getting at the point. There is/was an agreement that the jumper wouldn’t be sold.

The agreement was broken.

That’s where the issue lies for me.
The agreement has been broken a lot of times. We were told we'd be able to wear the guernsey once a year and we've had it pre-approved twice since, and a 3rd time at the last minute due to an AFL stuff up.

The AFL have total control here and will disregard whatever agreement they want to suit their political position.
 

Craegus

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Sorry, but I just had to post;



Such a good read in this thread for a complete neutral. Two totally different ways to argue.

One that is logical and reasoned, the other demanding and rash.

Who would think that those horrible, terrible, out of their minds Port Adelaide supporters would be so rational against the calm, cool and collected Collingwood supporters

 

Spuddd

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Yes, it is. The AFL approved everything we sell with an AFL logo on it. Without their approval, we're not allowed to sell it.

We currently don't have approval to sell our SANFL Guernsey because it has the club logo on it, with rights owned by the AFL who haven't provided approval.



The agreement has been broken a lot of times. We were told we'd be able to wear the guernsey once a year and we've had it pre-approved twice since, and a 3rd time at the last minute due to an AFL stuff up.

The AFL have total control here and will disregard whatever agreement they want to suit their political position.
Just take it to court. Simple
 

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