Society & Culture Problem gamblers

[Bunk Moreland]

I know one bloke (not really well, more a mate of a mate) who racked up $50k+ in losses over a year or two (that’s what was actually documented anyway).

Luckily for him and those around him he never actually stole – he just racked it all up on credit cards. Every time he maxed out he’d just search for another credit card to apply for, and surprise surprise, there was always one he could get.

He could do it all on credit card because it was all with corporate bookies online.

He was still living with his parents and it only stopped when he kept not paying money he owed to his old man. They got more and more suspicious when he wasn’t paying and eventually it all blew up and they found out. They’re now paying it back slowly and he hasn’t gambled since (yet anyway).

Thing that struck me was the amount these bookies let him bet – as long as you can upload cash from a credit card, you can bet it. Would have thought there could be some laws in place for when you apply for an account with a bookie (similar to when you apply for a loan or something) – you show them how much you earn and your other commitments etc, and you get assigned a limit based on that. Know it wouldn’t be completely foolproof but there could be some onus of proof and it’d be something at least. I really think gambling laws are a long way behind technology – probably fine for some bloke betting cash at the TAB, not so much for now where you just need a credit card/s and a computer or phone.

Current state of gambling advertising is a reprehensible disgrace. Lack of government action on it is ****ing shameful. It should go the way of cigarette advertising immediately. I don’t believe in banning gambling, but there is absolutely zero reason for it to be advertised apart from fattening these pricks’ pockets. If people want to bet they know where to go, same as if they want a packet of smokes. Literally every second advertisement during any sporting broadcast is about gambling. I think it’s something future generations will look back on and be gobsmacked.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I know one bloke (not really well, more a mate of a mate) who racked up $50k+ in losses over a year or two (that’s what was actually documented anyway).

Luckily for him and those around him he never actually stole – he just racked it all up on credit cards. Every time he maxed out he’d just search for another credit card to apply for, and surprise surprise, there was always one he could get.

He could do it all on credit card because it was all with corporate bookies online.

He was still living with his parents and it only stopped when he kept not paying money he owed to his old man. They got more and more suspicious when he wasn’t paying and eventually it all blew up and they found out. They’re now paying it back slowly and he hasn’t gambled since (yet anyway).

Thing that struck me was the amount these bookies let him bet – as long as you can upload cash from a credit card, you can bet it. Would have thought there could be some laws in place for when you apply for an account with a bookie (similar to when you apply for a loan or something) – you show them how much you earn and your other commitments etc, and you get assigned a limit based on that. Know it wouldn’t be completely foolproof but there could be some onus of proof and it’d be something at least. I really think gambling laws are a long way behind technology – probably fine for some bloke betting cash at the TAB, not so much for now where you just need a credit card/s and a computer or phone.

Current state of gambling advertising is a reprehensible disgrace. Lack of government action on it is ******* shameful. It should go the way of cigarette advertising immediately. I don’t believe in banning gambling, but there is absolutely zero reason for it to be advertised apart from fattening these pricks’ pockets. If people want to bet they know where to go, same as if they want a packet of smokes. Literally every second advertisement during any sporting broadcast is about gambling. I think it’s something future generations will look back on and be gobsmacked.

The reasons there aren't limits on what we can gamble in relation to our earnings is the same reason there aren't limits to the amount we can drink according to our livers performance or the amount of chocolate we can eat according to our BMI

We are our own people and shouldn't be controlled or limited at the discretion of the government

I've lost quite a lot over the tables in my time and on the horses and will probably continue to do so my entire life. I don't expect anyone else to be responsible for my money and my choices and I don't believe I should be limited to what the government thinks is an appropriate amount I can gamble

I dont see a difference between me spending 20k gambling and someone else spending 20k extra on a car upgrade or new boat, it's all money spent on things we enjoy.

There are certainly major problem gamblers who spend too much, but what can the goverent expect when they allow 4-5 different pokie clubs within a 5k radius in every western suburb. They then have the balls to come out and throw around pathetic and uneducated ideas behind problem gambling like 1$ cap per spin like it would make a difference. If they want to make a difference they need to stop allowing so many pokies literally across the road from low income earners

Making people travel and leave their suburb would solve so many more problem gambling cases than stupid caps or pre commitments. I was given the opportunity to put $100 notes in machines as long as I set a limit. How caring of you government. I set my 24hr limit at 5k lol what's the ****ing point

 

[fairdinkum]

Just to clarify for people who didn't quite understand what I had written in the OP:

The guy I am talking about loses (not simply bets, but loses) at least $100 per week. That's at least $5k a year in losses, and, once again, that's bare minimum. He admits that every now and then he will put a bigger bet on (such as this weekend) and is sketchy about how often he will go over his '$100 losses per week' limit he has set himself. I believe he is losing closer to $10k/year. Perhaps more.

To give more context, the guy is a casual temp worker through an agency. By my guess he would be lucky to earn $50k/year if he was employed all year round - which he isn't (as many [most?] temps up here in Brisbane aren't). But let's pretend he is earning $50k/year for argument's sake. Take home, that's just over $40k. Then he has bills to pay like rent/utilities/phone/transport/phone. The guy isn't exactly made of cash.

Best case scenario, he is spending most of his disposable income on the punt. Worst case, he is spending money he doesn't have.

If that isn't problem gambling then I don't know what is.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I think you would be shocked at the amount that regular people lose on the punt then tbh

Your friend is a mug punter, and a small one at that.

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

So glad the extent of my betting is in the Hawthorn thread's punting thread.

I cannot bet with my money. If im out at dinner at the pub with the family...i might take the missus in and we will put $5 on the pokies.

I've done that about 3 times in the past 10 years.

I have friends who are massive punters...lose heaps...such a shame

 

[half_back_flank]

Just to clarify for people who didn't quite understand what I had written in the OP:

The guy I am talking about loses (not simply bets, but loses) at least $100 per week. That's at least $5k a year in losses, and, once again, that's bare minimum. He admits that every now and then he will put a bigger bet on (such as this weekend) and is sketchy about how often he will go over his '$100 losses per week' limit he has set himself. I believe he is losing closer to $10k/year. Perhaps more.

To give more context, the guy is a casual temp worker through an agency. By my guess he would be lucky to earn $50k/year if he was employed all year round - which he isn't (as many [most?] temps up here in Brisbane aren't). But let's pretend he is earning $50k/year for argument's sake. Take home, that's just over $40k. Then he has bills to pay like rent/utilities/phone/transport/phone. The guy isn't exactly made of cash.

Best case scenario, he is spending most of his disposable income on the punt. Worst case, he is spending money he doesn't have.

If that isn't problem gambling then I don't know what is.

So he sets himself a limit of $100 losses per week?

The situation is even less serious now. He doesn't lose every single week of the year, making your assumption that he loses between 5k and 10k a year ridiculous.

 

[fairdinkum]

I am flabbergasted at how obnoxious some people must be when they think they can better gauge the character of a man they have only read a few things about online than somebody who knows them personally.

 

[The Prosecutor]

I am flabbergasted at how obnoxious some people must be when they think they can better gauge the character of a man they have only read a few things about online than somebody who knows them personally.

There is quite a big difference between a mug punter and someone with a serious gambling addiction.

Your friend is quite clearly on the very low end of the scale.

 

[checkraiseulite]

If he was spending $100/wk on alcohol would that make him an alcoholic or a problem drinker?

 

[WeetBixKid]

A friend of mine was at one point putting his entire paycheques into sports betting. Educated guy, good job. But he grew up in a religious household, was single, and also had problems with his body - so he didn't really have anything to take the edge off (sex, drinking, sports). I could be wrong but I think that's one of the reasons he ended up getting so involved with punting.

 

[The Prosecutor]

If he was spending $100/wk on alcohol would that make him an alcoholic or a problem drinker?

Stupid comparison.

 

[Maroon Goon]

$100.00 would be a lot for me, and probably a lot of people out there. I just think of the food i could buy or bill to be paid. But having said that I'm not going to dare have a go at anyone with what they do with their own hard earned. But for me i would struggle to spend $100 weekly on anything i enjoy.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Stupid comparison.

Why's that? Fd is stating it's a problem solely because he is habitually spending x% of his disposable income on activity y and x is remaining consistent on a weekly basis. Does it matter what activity y is in this instance?

Small, consistent losing is the hallmark of the recreational gambler.

He's more likely to be a problem gambler if he's betting more the following week (or later in the day) to recoup past losses. Problem gamblers don't set themselves limits, and if they do, they don't stick to them.

Here the guy isn't chasing losses, but is sticking to a $100 a week limit. He doesn't appear to be a problem gambler, just as a person who spends $100 a week from $500 take home is not automatically a problem drinker. People have different priorities.

 

[fairdinkum]

Well he won about $200 tonight so he is (probably) in front this week. For now.

Why's that? Fd is stating it's a problem solely because he is habitually spending x% of his disposable income on activity y and x is remaining consistent on a weekly basis. Does it matter what activity y is in this instance?

Yeah, that's bullshit, and you know it.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Yeah, that's bullshit, and you know it.

Really? I just re-read the OP and the only concern you raised was the losing of the money at ~$100pw given he is earning <$50k pa.

There are definitely problem gamblers out there, I definitely know my fair share of them, but on the info you've given this guy doesn't really seem like a problem gambler.

 

[fairdinkum]

Really? I just re-read the OP and the only concern you raised was the losing of the money at ~$100pw given he is earning <$50k pa.

There are definitely problem gamblers out there, I definitely know my fair share of them, but on the info you've given this guy doesn't really seem like a problem gambler.

Yeah, that's a fair enough reply. Had I known how much random peeps on the net would second guess my analysis of the guy in question (who I know IRL), I would have given more info.

He is 28. No assets. Much debt (five figures). Punts every night ('mug tennis' on weekdays, football codes on weekends). Loves the chatrooms on betfair (I don't use betfair so I am assuming he means chatrooms when he talks about 'online chat' - I dunno). Talks about punting every single day.

If, to you guys, his losses don't classify him as a problem gambler, then that's fine by me. I feel truly sorry for the guys you know who are worse than my workmate. For me, this guy has a serious problem. Worse than my drinking, really. At least I still study and stuff. This guy is wasting his life imo. Watevs.

 

[half_back_flank]

I am flabbergasted at how obnoxious some people must be when they think they can better gauge the character of a man they have only read a few things about online than somebody who knows them personally.

I'm just going off what you've told us.

You could say that you know little to nothing about gambling/problem gambling and are therefore unfit to diagnose him.

As i said, if he sets himself a loss limit reasonably close to 100 a week (like you said), he doesn't have a problem. He isn't going to lose every week.

If he averages 100 dollars loss or more a week, it's a little more serious.

 

[woomera_skp]

I have met people who have lost Millions on gambling, No lie. Mostly Roulette, bacarrat and Horse racing. The worst 3 games there is (maybe pokies too). i know someone who is selling his house just to pay off debt and money he borrowed. Imagine selling your $600,000 House to get your 50% Equity to pay off your debt for damage he has done in the last 12 months. I have seen mates who started betting $5 on black jack tables Years ago now throw $5,000 in one bet in baccarat or $4,000 in one spin in roullette, some have thrown away what advantage they had in life with a house and a good car. one close mate of mine Gambles Millions a year and loses and he is lucky he has a good buisness to support his habit and even then he is feeling the pinch lately, I have gone to mahogany room few times to check it out (Free drinks and you can smoke there) and there you see gamblers who have lost everything, one in particular that my mate knows lost close to $4 million in the last 2 Years.


I am no saint i do punt every now and then but Only poker and have a strong limit, play tourney sometimes and win abit on 2/3. I have played every game there is and apart from poker that last time i played a non poker game was like 2-3 years ago. all in all i think i have 20 Friends or associates who are punters, from losing $5 a week to $20,000 a week. when i look back most of them started small, some kept control over it and some let loose, some are in debt and some have lost everything. It is a shitty thing when gambling gets the better of you as i see it first hand with some of my mate, they have lost the value of money all together, having $10k In their pockets means its only plastic paper redeemable at the bookies or Casino. No sense can get through to them as well once they are gamblers that is what it is, you tell them to go overseas, buy something with it always goes into deaf ears, all they think about is how they would turn that into a bigger amount. to top it off i get pissed off when i see that waterhouse commercial, Betting ads should be banned.

 

[garygee]

I used to watch my friends mum blow her last money at the pokies and starve for the rest of the week. She used to call up my friend pleading for money to eat and then blow it at the pokies if she gave her any. Doesn't the betting industry have any responsibility to these useless fools? Do they just get to take thier money and walk away? Do you know how many small businesses failed soon after the opening of Crown and the relaxing of our gambling laws? All of a sudden the states disposable income was sucked up by the gambling monster. I have no pity for gamblers that get themselves into financial trouble or any of the betting industry. As soon as you allow gambling to have anything to do with a sport you run the risk of corruption and outcome fixing. it's disgusting the amount of gambling industry sponsorship that the AFL allow. That they have to change rules and regulations because of it is even more disgusting.
Gee it"s a long way down from this high horse.

 

[checkraiseulite]

As soon as you allow gambling to have anything to do with a sport you run the risk of corruption and outcome fixing.

I could guarantee you if there wasn't legalised gambling on racing/sports there would be a huge amount of illegal gambling going on.This is because, as we see time and time again, there is huge demand for gambling here in Australia.

Legalised and regulated gambling actually decreases the risk of corruption/outcome fixing.

A byproduct of that just means that a lot of ordinary people get sucked into it, and a lot of people cannot control their gambling once it gets started.

The industry definitely needs to take more responsibility, but it's unrealistic to think that it will disappear. Having said that the advertising of gambling providers is excessive at the moment and needs to be looked at and changed by the legislature. Eskander himself said he feels gambling advertising is excessive, but because it's legal he has to do it or lose market-share to the competition who continue to advertise.

Agree with you on the pokies issue though, I've had similar experiences myself.

 

[rideclutch]

For me, this guy has a serious problem. Worse than my drinking problem, really. At least I still study and stuff. This guy is wasting his life imo. Watevs.

I'll make a few assumptions here, but it sounds like he doesn't have much going on in his life. He might find it's a easy way to network (chatrooms etc.), not many friends, or that it's a just something to keep his mind stimulated. After all, who doesn't like the vindication of correctly making a prediction on something? Even better if you get some hard-earned back. Maybe it's just his expensive hobby.

A problem gambler may have that otherwise balanced life, but is addicted to the thrill of winning and the lucrative nature of it all. They would never entertain the idea of having a limit - why? Because it's all about the thrill, like a drug. They can't stand losing and almost certainly chase losses, because of the great release you get when you win it all back and know you're all square. We've all been there at some point, feels great.

The distinction between mug punter and problem gambler lies in the personality IMO - is he addicted to gambling, or is he just pissing money away because he's got nothing better to do? Based on what I've read, he fits the latter, but you obviously know him better than us.

 

[fairdinkum]

rideclutch: Excellent post.

 

[garygee]

The Drummer in my band [awesome musician and incidentally the one time partner of the person above] was a committed punter who would often spend his whole dole cheque on the horses. Bought A book and learn't how to program so he could use the principles in this book easily. Wouldn't let me be his bookie. I worked out that he was down about $20k in three years [and on the dole] All he did all day was study the TAB form. Great drummer though. He gave it up to spend more time on the horses. What a fool. Was always saying he was going to be rich. I just got used to him never havng any money/car/etc.

 

[JuddsABlue]

The problem OP is he knows nothing about gambling and problem gambling, but because he knows his friend IRL he thinks he's better judged to diagnose him despite giving us all the info

Its like getting diagnosed with cancer but the mother of the victim disputes the diagnosis because she knows the victim better than the doctor

$100 a week isn't a problem unless he is bringing in $100 a week. It seems you just want to blame him and be angry at him for his hobby. People tend to have a tainted view on gambling so OP don't worry you're not the first

Let your friend enjoy his hobby

 

[half_back_flank]

JuddsABlue: Excellent post.