Problems with our Premiership push!

[PiEs_In_ThE_SkY!!! JA PM]

Ok hate to be negative with our side 6 days from a Qualifying Final but the last two weeks have brought up the same problems we had from round 5-11 this year. This side is personally the best side i have seen. Im 20 years old and thinks this is our best chance (exclude 1990) as i was a bubba!

Anyways there are plenty of reasons why we can win the premiership but i thought i would focus on the other side of things. What things could possibly cost us in finals? What aspects of our game need improvement if we are to get hold of the holy grail?

Ill start with obviously:

-Goalkicking. Its f***** shit and we miss 9-10 easy shot every week. It cost us a win today and i hope it doesnt in finals.

- Slow. Not slow as in the speed of our side but in the way we move the ball. We used to kick handball kick handball. But now its more h/ball, h/ball, h/ball and last resort kick it. Today if we had moved the ball long, Dawes and Cloke would have killed that shit defence one on one!

-Backline turns to shit with the ball kicked long. Hawthron just bombed it long every time and backline crumbled. Could be the same story against a Geelong or St Kilda. Needs Presti back ASAP!

- And finally, i rate this the highest. Why has there been no attention paid to our centre clearance work? Im telling you, we have been absolutely smashed in the centre clearances in recent weeks and that includes Essendon! Did we win one today? Did we win many last week? Some serious attention needs to be payed to this and its putting far too much pressure on the backline when it comes in so quick and easy.

Oh well, top of the ladder and facing an underdone Western Bulldogs next week. It will all go well.

Please note: This was not a spur of the loss type thread. Mere facts. Peace!

 

[Prince_Rhodesia]

Re: Problems with out Premiership push!

Goal kicking is our problem, with our best 22, we're doing nicely. Bring in Presti, Dids, L.Brown and Benny J, and we're good to go. If we convert at least 70%, we'll win the flag.
Peace out!

 

[daics_35]

Re: Problems with out Premiership push!

I think the Hawks and the Crows zones are very similar to each other and i think we tend to struggle playing against them and i think we were the better team in both games. If we beat the dogs on saturday we will break the hoodoo of not beating a Victorian team in the finals since 1990 and i think we have good chance of go all the way. For the fans that are getting worried, DONT, becuase if you watched the game yesterday you would have obviously seen unusual coaching moves and the players werent going in hard. We should be alright come finals time as long as the players dont get ahead of themselves.

 

[SIDE BY SIDE]

With Fraser in the Ruck we seemed to lose the centre clearance just about all the time. When Jolly was in there we at least won a few not 100% sure the difference.

Being my first game for the year live it just looked like both sides didn't really have their heart in it. You see it so different when your at the game to watching it on TV. Lets hope next week this all turns around.

 

[Heritier 09]

clearances aren't an issue.
we didn't have our good blokes in the centre. swanny spent a bit of time in there, but i reckon Josh, beamsy and caff spent more time in the guts then anyone else. they're not our clearance players, watch for bally and boots (if he doesn't get suspended) to team up with jolly and swan, and smash the dogs.

shots at goal? what else can be said? 30 shots at goal will win most finals, 13-17 will win most grand finals, we have to hope that collective pressure beats outright skill, it's what we've relied on all year, with the exception of a classy few, Dids, jolly, Pendles etc.

I think we'll be right, as long as the players find that true hunger, shown against geelong, we'll be fine. something tells me there are blokes who've had the cue in the rack (which is dangerous but understandable) just so they're right to go this next month. it's going to be great to watch it unfurl.
Go woods

 

[Pie eyed]

With Fraser in the Ruck we seemed to lose the centre clearance just about all the time. When Jolly was in there we at least won a few not 100% sure the difference.

Being my first game for the year live it just looked like both sides didn't really have their heart in it. You see it so different when your at the game to watching it on TV. Lets hope next week this all turns around.

Fraser had 28 hitouts (highest for the game) with Renouf 27, Jolly 18 and Skipper 15. I think Josh is very harshly judged on our board, far more harshly than any other second ruck in the league.
For an example...
Warnock had 28, Hampson 7
Sandilands 40
Ottens 15, Blake 8
Cox 12, Niatanui 9
Maric 16, Tippett 8, Sellar 8
Gardiner 18, McEvoy 14
Hudson 19, Roughhead 5
Hille 21, Ryder 8
Leuenberger 29, Clark 5
Pike 33, White 9
Graham 20, Post 6
Brogan 29, Westhoff 7
Jamar 35
McIntosh 15, Goldstein 11

It was obvious that MM was trying him to see if he was competitive in a Key Ruck situation, which makes sense as this is where we need back-up if Jolly gets injured. Jolly would no doubt be the preferred forward option as he has the runs on the board. Fraser has shown that at VFL level he can still go forward and kick goals but his contested marking is a tick against him and Brown and Jolly win clearly here. I think the exercise was worthwile. He certainly did not cost us the game and had a solid performance without being outstanding.

 

[Copeland]

I think we must make the most of this position we find ourselves in after such a tough draw. Finishing on top (all home finals), tiny injury list and having blasted our main rivals (saints an cats) off the park.
We really need to capitalize on our great year, you just never know what next year will bring.

 

[shawthing09]

Goal kicking is the obvious one and the biggest worry. Some of that comes from being poor from set shots and not kicking kickable ones. That is made much worse by the fact that we have so few actual traditional kickable set shots. We take a lot of shots from play on situations or out wide. Which makes it harder to have a good conversion rate. If your going to do that your going to miss a lot which means you really need to convert your traditional ones and we don't.

The ball movement is not an issue anymore IMO. We moved it slow because of the numbers hawthorn had behind the ball, we still managed to have more then enough shots to win the game despite reducing the workload of almost all our important midfield group.

Backline again non-issue, I think Hawthorn still clearly have the best key foward structure in the comp, no other team would stretch a backline with quality tall fowards the way Hawthorn do. Presti into that side and more then likely not having to face a team with a key foward structure like that means that if teams want to try and take the bomb it long approach they will play into our hands.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

clearances aren't an issue.
we didn't have our good blokes in the centre. swanny spent a bit of time in there, but i reckon Josh, beamsy and caff spent more time in the guts then anyone else. they're not our clearance players, watch for bally and boots (if he doesn't get suspended) to team up with jolly and swan, and smash the dogs.

shots at goal? what else can be said? 30 shots at goal will win most finals, 13-17 will win most grand finals, we have to hope that collective pressure beats outright skill, it's what we've relied on all year, with the exception of a classy few, Dids, jolly, Pendles etc.

I think we'll be right, as long as the players find that true hunger, shown against geelong, we'll be fine. something tells me there are blokes who've had the cue in the rack (which is dangerous but understandable) just so they're right to go this next month. it's going to be great to watch it unfurl.
Go woods

Crikey you guys have a lot of glass half empty people on your side. IMO you have nothing to worry about. Your rotations are fantastic and you took care of Ablett, Selwood and co. pretty well 2 weeks ago. If you saw our pathethic centre square efforts the past three weeks you would realise that goalkicking practice should be the order of the day at training this week.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I see two big problems ahead:

1. Goal kicking. It has been the elephant in the room with everyone trying to ignore it for some time now with the hope it will go away. Only now is everyone becoming alarmed & rightly so! If we can't kick straight we cannot win the flag. We must beat 3 very good sides in a row to win the flag including the Dogs in the first week. You cannot open doors for those sides as they will walk right in. It doesn't matter how well we play everywhere else on the ground because if you can't convert whats the point. This may be getting overblown now as well which is another concern as thats when the yips can set in & players start worrying about missing. This is my #1 worry.

2. A little problem I like to call Geelong. They are still the best side. At their best no one can beat them, I am still convinced of that. All we can do is play at our best level, take our chances and we can give ourselves a chance to win. They haven't been at the best this year a bit and hopefully we can stay above them come crunch time. Perhaps I am still having nightmares about 2003 when Brisbane who were down & out at times during that finals series came out & unleashed what we knew they were capable of & we simply couldn't match them.

Other than that I am happy with our list, game style, coaching and focus. Hopefully four more weeks of angst end in ectsacy!

 

[cfx_1]

Fraser had 28 hitouts (highest for the game) with Renouf 27, Jolly 18 and Skipper 15. I think Josh is very harshly judged on our board, far more harshly than any other second ruck in the league.
For an example...
Warnock had 28, Hampson 7
Sandilands 40
Ottens 15, Blake 8
Cox 12, Niatanui 9
Maric 16, Tippett 8, Sellar 8
Gardiner 18, McEvoy 14
Hudson 19, Roughhead 5
Hille 21, Ryder 8
Leuenberger 29, Clark 5
Pike 33, White 9
Graham 20, Post 6
Brogan 29, Westhoff 7
Jamar 35
McIntosh 15, Goldstein 11

It was obvious that MM was trying him to see if he was competitive in a Key Ruck situation, which makes sense as this is where we need back-up if Jolly gets injured. Jolly would no doubt be the preferred forward option as he has the runs on the board. Fraser has shown that at VFL level he can still go forward and kick goals but his contested marking is a tick against him and Brown and Jolly win clearly here. I think the exercise was worthwile. He certainly did not cost us the game and had a solid performance without being outstanding.

Your right though i'd like to see how much game time each played in the ruck. It seemed like Fraser got a lot more than he should have and it negates Jolly's best qualities, though it was hardly his fault for the loss.

We got ourselves in a winnable position with 5 minutes to go and it was a long quarter. I think all the players expected it was over after being in front by 19 points. To this I blame MM. 3 quick goals from clearances resulted from not having our best clearance players at the ball in a crucial part of the game. We also should have dropped another back and set up a wall inside 50. Maxwell was doing his best but it wasn't enough.

TBH, it doesn't really matter but it would have been nice to get a W.

I think Brown did a good job on Buddy in 1 on 1's. Only got beaten a couple of times, which unfortunately resulted in a goals. But their delivery inside 50 was always very fast and with someone of Buddy's talent he's going to win those quite often. Reid was ok too, though he had no need to grab his arm and give away the free kick when it was 2 on 1.

 

[Pie eyed]

Crikey you guys have a lot of glass half empty people on your side. IMO you have nothing to worry about. Your rotations are fantastic and you took care of Ablett, Selwood and co. pretty well 2 weeks ago. If you saw our pathethic centre square efforts the past three weeks you would realise that goalkicking practice should be the order of the day at training this week.

Welcome to the personal Finals Football hell of a million Collingwood supporters.

We have form you know.

Truly though while it pays to be pretty reserved at this time of year for the supporters the side should not be in this frame of mind. They won the MP and now are the best positioned they have been since 1990 to have a shot.

Leave nothing on the field boys.



Go Pies.

 

[Pie eyed]

Your right though i'd like to see how much game time each played in the ruck. It seemed like Fraser got a lot more than he should have and it negates Jolly's best qualities, though it was hardly his fault for the loss.

We got ourselves in a winnable position with 5 minutes to go and it was a long quarter. I think all the players expected it was over after being in front by 19 points. To this I blame MM. 3 quick goals from clearances resulted from not having our best clearance players at the ball in a crucial part of the game. We also should have dropped another back and set up a wall inside 50. Maxwell was doing his best but it wasn't enough.

TBH, it doesn't really matter but it would have been nice to get a W.

I think Brown did a good job on Buddy in 1 on 1's. Only got beaten a couple of times, which unfortunately resulted in a goals. But their delivery inside 50 was always very fast and with someone of Buddy's talent he's going to win those quite often. Reid was ok too, though he had no need to grab his arm and give away the free kick when it was 2 on 1.

I'm no coach but putting the boys in the situation of having to save a game, in a game which has no bearing, may not have been too bad an idea. You have to try an get everything you can out any game, toward the ultimate game. Even if you only identify a few negatives at least you gain.

Maybe I'm just seeing more in it than there is or giving MM too much credit for smarts, but I would have used the Hawks game as a test of players and structures. I don't think we use the middle once in the entire game, or our best backline, centre or forward structures. Not once.
Surely there's a reason for this?

 

[HotPiesWithSauce]

Don't agree with the OP's opinion that we only kick as a last resort.
I'm fairly sure out kick:handball ratio is the one of the best if not the best in the league.
Compared to Geelong, we are hackysack kings, they have consistently overused the ball by hand this year up until the last couple of weeks where they have conciously addressed the issue.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

From another thread.

We won't win the flag this year.

The players have lost the hunger somehow in the last 2 weeks. They'll learn this week that it's not a switch you can flick on.

this.

 

[Pie eyed]

From another thread.




this.

LOL>

You held your nerve this long Shep.

I almost imagined the intense inner turmoil you've had to endure having come full circle in less than 6 months.

Hang in there.

 

[doppleganger]

Gee people are over-reacting.

Adelaide, we beat them....they dismantled St.Kilda on the weekend, so a hard fought win aint really that bad form!

Hawks, lost by a kick, when clearly we were resting out key players...ie Fraser played as main ruck, Ball and Pendles were hardly in the middle at any centre bounces etc....by the way the Hawks have also had a good record against the other top 4 teams in 2010.

Pies have had a couple of good hitouts before finals, been able to give some key players a bit of a rest and are in a great position.

The only worry is accuracy in front of goal.....but id much rather have 30 shots at goal than 16!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Gee people are over-reacting.

Adelaide, we beat them....they dismantled St.Kilda on the weekend, so a hard fought win aint really that bad form!

Hawks, lost by a kick, when clearly we were resting out key players...ie Fraser played as main ruck, Ball and Pendles were hardly in the middle at any centre bounces etc....by the way the Hawks have also had a good record against the other top 4 teams in 2010.

Pies have had a couple of good hitouts before finals, been able to give some key players a bit of a rest and are in a great position.

The only worry is accuracy in front of goal.....but id much rather have 30 shots at goal than 16!

The accuracy isn't as bad as it seems if the intensity is there. We've won plenty of games kicking shockingly (including Geelong).

But in those games we were running, spreading, tackling, chasing, harassing, and swarming in numbers.

That hasn't been there the past 2 weeks. That needs to come back.

 

[doppleganger]

The accuracy isn't as bad as it seems if the intensity is there. We've won plenty of games kicking shockingly (including Geelong).

But in those games we were running, spreading, tackling, chasing, harassing, and swarming in numbers.

That hasn't been there the past 2 weeks. That needs to come back.

It is human nature to drop off just a tad when you are playing for nothing.

Top spot was wrapped up after the Essendon thrashing....

Even though we had nothing to play for we beat Adelaide, who spanked the saints, and coulda/shoulda beat Hawthorn who were playing for a home final.

No need to panic.....the boys bubbling along nicely, and MM will be able to use the close losses as a spur to ensure that the lads must be on their game or any side can challenge us.

The perfect preparation to finals.....no point going into finals on the back of a 100 point thumping as the players may get ahead of themselves...100% gurantee that all the boys will be focussed on doing the little things to get the W on sat night

 

[Nardz]

IMO you'd be crazy to read anything into the past fortnight.

 

[The Dawes]

Welcome to the personal Finals Football hell of a million Collingwood supporters.

We have form you know.

Truly though while it pays to be pretty reserved at this time of year for the supporters the side should not be in this frame of mind. They won the MP and now are the best positioned they have been since 1990 to have a shot.

Leave nothing on the field boys.



Go Pies.

Succinct summary of my feelings - particularly the finals hell part.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It is human nature to drop off just a tad when you are playing for nothing.

Top spot was wrapped up after the Essendon thrashing....

Even though we had nothing to play for we beat Adelaide, who spanked the saints, and coulda/shoulda beat Hawthorn who were playing for a home final.

No need to panic.....the boys bubbling along nicely, and MM will be able to use the close losses as a spur to ensure that the lads must be on their game or any side can challenge us.

The perfect preparation to finals.....no point going into finals on the back of a 100 point thumping as the players may get ahead of themselves...100% gurantee that all the boys will be focussed on doing the little things to get the W on sat night

Please don't get me wrong. I hope you're right. I hope they've eased off into 'preservation' mode in preparations for the real stuff.

I'm just concerned that you can't really just switch it on when you want. It's not that simple in finals unless you have the talent of a Geelong in your side, which we don't quite have yet.

I just personally feel that this team needed to do it the momentum way.

But, hopefully I'm wrong, they switch it on, and go all the way. Then I can sit back, and spend the coming 6 months watching the replay every day when I get home from work. Which I will do, no seriously, I will.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Please don't get me wrong. I hope you're right. I hope they've eased off into 'preservation' mode in preparations for the real stuff.

I'm just concerned that you can't really just switch it on when you want. It's not that simple in finals unless you have the talent of a Geelong in your side, which we don't quite have yet.

I just personally feel that this team needed to do it the momentum way.

But, hopefully I'm wrong, they switch it on, and go all the way. Then I can sit back, and spend the coming 6 months watching the replay every day when I get home from work. Which I will do, no seriously, I will.

a different Collingwood will rock up this weekend, there is no doubt about it. You cant help but preserve yourself when you have nothing to play for. The boys clearly werent 100% focussed on Adelaide or Hawthorn.
No need to panic mate, if we take our chances in front of the sticks this week it could be messy for the pups

 

[tattooedswan]

The only worry is accuracy in front of goal.....but id much rather have 30 shots at goal than 16!

This

 

[doppleganger]

I'm just concerned that you can't really just switch it on when you want. It's not that simple in finals unless you have the talent of a Geelong in your side, which we don't quite have yet.

Tis more about a personnel thing.

In the finals, do you think we will have Fraser, McCarthy, Macaffer and Beams in for plenty of centre bounce contests?

I reckon we will have Jolly, Swan, Ball and Pendles.

I reckon we will have Didak roaming around the wing/HF.

Presti back to blanket B.Hall, Mooney, Franklin etc

And even with the fact we weren't running our A-grade blokes through the middle we went with Hawthorn who were gunning for a home final, and beat Adelaide who have knocked off St.Kilda convincingly.

Our form is fine, and we have been able to freshen up Jolly, Ball, Pendles, Didak and Presti who will be crucial if we are to succeed in September.