Public vs Private School funding

[Nuggs Bunny]

I'm fairly sure it is, which is why the major parties haven't touched on the topic.

Your side is mostly ambivalent or unlikely to change votes due to changes in school funding. My side is far more likely to make a shift. Don't confuse the SRP with reality.

Noted dude, we'll try to stay away from your handouts in future.

Inb4 I pay tax therefore I deserve my child's private school education to be funded. If that's the case, could you please ask if they can just give me my contribution back in cash?

 

[evolved2]

Noted dude, we'll try to stay away from your handouts in future.

Inb4 I pay tax therefore I deserve my child's private school education to be funded. If that's the case, could you please ask if they can just give me my contribution back in cash?

I've changed tact since covid. The only currency that matters in politics is votes.

My children appreciate your contribution.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I've changed tact since covid. The only currency that matters in politics is votes.

My children appreciate your contribution.

I wonder if in the future they will look back and appreciate the christofascist institution you sent them to.

 

[Not Important]

And I am not disputing your experience either. I have seen a new scholarship fund raise $3M in 24hrs. A new science block raise $20M in 3 months. And I can't say without government assistance, not because of a government contribution, but because those donations attracted a tax deduction.

Part of the problem is not the money they spend, but what they don't collect!

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

well, i am acquainted with a person who was involved with a trust from one of the wealthiest private schools and he’s gobsmacked at your example. i guess there is the rare example in the field.

as to the overwhelming situation, you have been taken in by the spin.

go back to first principles. if an organisation has a huge portion of its income removed it has to do a major reset. that fundamentally involves increasing income ( in the case of private schools that would be fees) or reducing services ( in the case of private schools that would include reducing staff and services including facilities)

obviously, losing millions in revenue would mean the excesses would take a hit.

as i’ve said before, the catch cry of reactionaries was once the user pays. nowadays they are into taxpayer support at every chance.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So I just checked and state (public) schools pay payroll tax. So why the **** should privates be exempt?

 

[tandino]

Why is the state levying payroll tax against itself?

 

[Sttew]

So I just checked and state (public) schools pay payroll tax. So why the * should privates be exempt?

Not saying I agree but private schools were made exempt to compensate for the less government funding received and because there are not for profit

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not saying I agree but private schools were made exempt to compensate for the less government funding received and because there are not for profit

Expect they do make profit and that’s also why they are supposed to have less funding (and I think they might be actually getting more based on what others are posting)

 

[Sttew]

Expect they do make profit and that’s also why they are supposed to have less funding (and I think they might be actually getting more based on what others are posting)

Of course they aspire to make profit. Not for profit entities plough profits back into the organisation. For profit entities pay dividends to shareholders

 

[Crankyhawk]

Of course they aspire to make profit. Not for profit entities plough profits back into the organisation. For profit entities pay dividends to shareholders

still not interested in them being exepmt from payroll tax. Though more broadly I'm not sure why we have payroll tax, seems to be a disincentive to employ more people.

 

[Home Alone]

still not interested in them being exepmt from payroll tax. Though more broadly I'm not sure why we have payroll tax, seems to be a disincentive to employ more people.

It isn't a particularly good tax, but states are limited in how they can raise revenue for the services we demand.[/QUOTE]

 

[Kwality]

Students kicked out of Perth’s top public schools over ‘catchment fraud’

Students have had their enrolments at some of Perth’s top public schools cancelled after it was found their families falsely told the schools they lived within the correct catchment area.

www.watoday.com.au

'Students at some of Perth’s top public schools have had their enrolments cancelled after it was revealed their parents falsely claimed they lived in the same catchment zone as the school.
WAtoday obtained documents showing at least 10 families have had their children’s enrolments cancelled or questioned due to catchment fraud at nine of Perth’s most sought-after public high schools over the past five years.'

Is their inequity in funding public schools or do parents at 'top public schools' kick the tin ?

Seems cheating is common in Melbourne 'top public schools' too, with real estate/rentals 'in the zone' attracting a premium.

 

[Not Important]

I've changed tact since covid. The only currency that matters in politics is votes.

My children appreciate your contribution.

and it took covid for this to dawn on you? you rightists are slow.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Students kicked out of Perth’s top public schools over ‘catchment fraud’

Students have had their enrolments at some of Perth’s top public schools cancelled after it was found their families falsely told the schools they lived within the correct catchment area.

www.watoday.com.au

'Students at some of Perth’s top public schools have had their enrolments cancelled after it was revealed their parents falsely claimed they lived in the same catchment zone as the school.
WAtoday obtained documents showing at least 10 families have had their children’s enrolments cancelled or questioned due to catchment fraud at nine of Perth’s most sought-after public high schools over the past five years.'

Is their inequity in funding public schools or do parents at 'top public schools' kick the tin ?

Seems cheating is common in Melbourne 'top public schools' too, with real estate/rentals 'in the zone' attracting a premium.

I don't think it is inequity funding if we are talking the top state schools in vic (excepting the selective entry ones - Melb High, Mc Rob, Uni high - as they aren't geographically based/ have a partial non geographic intake). I will use Balwyn High as an example - which absolutely real estate attracts a premium - its due to having a reputation of other students having similar values/ desire to learn and so teacher who don't need to chase down recalcitrants (when compared to the typical or the disadvantaged state school). Given the actual demographic location, theres a high number of Asian background parents with (generalising) a high degree of value placed on education.

And I also am aware of how one can breach the boundary - my family claimed (truthfully) that the local state school did not offer Mandarin Chinese at Year 7 as a reason for my sibling to go to Balwyn, this was accepted, my sibling dropped Mandarin after 12 months but by this stage had managed to link herself into the school community so well that she eventually became school captain.

 

[Not Important]

this piece should make anyone other than the entitled angry.

 

[Chief]

Not a Crikey subscriber, sorry.

 

[Kwality]

this piece should make anyone other than the entitled angry.

You are certainly entitled to comment.

 

[Gralin]

This is pretty damning

Private school funding increased twice as much as public schools’ in decade after Gonski, data shows

Exclusive: government funding since landmark education review released ‘has gone to those least in need’, says national convenor of Save Our Schools

www.theguardian.com

 

[D Mitchell]

This is pretty damning

Private school funding increased twice as much as public schools’ in decade after Gonski, data shows

Exclusive: government funding since landmark education review released ‘has gone to those least in need’, says national convenor of Save Our Schools

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 1741204

The source of your "pretty damning" is commentary by, and on material gathered by, Trevor Cobbold, National Convenor of Save Our Schools, published in the Guardian, hardly a disinterested commentator. Merely because the rate of increase of funding to Private and Catholic school systems is greater than that of the increase to Government Schools, assuming it is accurate, may not be "pretty damning" at all. What you should be reading is material from less partisan sources, try

School funding and improving education outcomes

It gives raw figures and is broader than mere allocation of fundings, it looks at outcomes and causes. Frankly, the more interesting statistic is the estimate that Australia spends 20 % less on education than similar countries. The more alarming is the commentary that standards continue to fall, despite the increased spending.

 

[Gralin]

The source of your "pretty damning" is commentary by, and on material gathered by, Trevor Cobbold, National Convenor of Save Our Schools, published in the Guardian, hardly a disinterested commentator. Merely because the rate of increase of funding to Private and Catholic school systems is greater than that of the increase to Government Schools, assuming it is accurate, may not be "pretty damning" at all. What you should be reading is material from less partisan sources, try

School funding and improving education outcomes

It gives raw figures and is broader than mere allocation of fundings, it looks at outcomes and causes. Frankly, the more interesting statistic is the estimate that Australia spends 20 % less on education than similar countries. The more alarming is the commentary that standards continue to fall, despite the increased spending.

I mean the data is the data as much as you want to pretend its not

we know that state governments are underfunding public schools, they tell us they are

we know federal governments put most of their money into private schools

we know that this changed under Turnbull

We know that Abbott cut public funding

This isn't a libs vs labor issue, Labor runs most states and isn't holding up its end of the bargain

Gillard guaranteed the private schools they wouldn't lose money to keep the right faction of her own party from removing her

there is a reason the Gonski report called for Federal funding as the primary mechanism, the feds have the most money.

we've had both Labor and Liberal federal governments enact policy that goes against what Gonski recommended
we've had both liberal and labor state governments do the same

so we're not following the model we agreed to

and we're increasing inequality via a policy that was meant to do the opposite

as population increases the cost of education increases, inflation also plays its part

the money has to go up

but its not going up enough and where it is, isn't where it's needed

so you can talk about outcomes for spend all you want, but I know you're doing it to just avoid the problem

 

[Gralin]

The source of your "pretty damning" is commentary by, and on material gathered by, Trevor Cobbold, National Convenor of Save Our Schools, published in the Guardian, hardly a disinterested commentator. Merely because the rate of increase of funding to Private and Catholic school systems is greater than that of the increase to Government Schools, assuming it is accurate, may not be "pretty damning" at all. What you should be reading is material from less partisan sources, try

School funding and improving education outcomes

It gives raw figures and is broader than mere allocation of fundings, it looks at outcomes and causes. Frankly, the more interesting statistic is the estimate that Australia spends 20 % less on education than similar countries. The more alarming is the commentary that standards continue to fall, despite the increased spending.

The source of the data is the government too, not Trevor

ACARA

 

[Sttew]

I mean the data is the data as much as you want to pretend its not

we know that state governments are underfunding public schools, they tell us they are

we know federal governments put most of their money into private schools

we know that this changed under Turnbull

We know that Abbott cut public funding

This isn't a libs vs labor issue, Labor runs most states and isn't holding up its end of the bargain

Gillard guaranteed the private schools they wouldn't lose money to keep the right faction of her own party from removing her

there is a reason the Gonski report called for Federal funding as the primary mechanism, the feds have the most money.

we've had both Labor and Liberal federal governments enact policy that goes against what Gonski recommended
we've had both liberal and labor state governments do the same

so we're not following the model we agreed to

and we're increasing inequality via a policy that was meant to do the opposite

as population increases the cost of education increases, inflation also plays its part

the money has to go up

but its not going up enough and where it is, isn't where it's needed

so you can talk about outcomes for spend all you want, but I know you're doing it to just avoid the problem

But private schools still receive less government funding per student than public school students

 

[Gralin]

But private schools still receive less government funding per student than public school students

So ****ing what?

It's mean to be needs based funding, not equal funding.

98% of private schools get more funding than the model says they should and 98% of public schools get less funding

I could not give less of a shit about per student dollars when you know full well that the private schools get money for the students directly from the parents as well.

 

[D Mitchell]

I mean the data is the data as much as you want to pretend its not

we know that state governments are underfunding public schools, they tell us they are

we know federal governments put most of their money into private schools

we know that this changed under Turnbull

We know that Abbott cut public funding

This isn't a libs vs labor issue, Labor runs most states and isn't holding up its end of the bargain

Gillard guaranteed the private schools they wouldn't lose money to keep the right faction of her own party from removing her

there is a reason the Gonski report called for Federal funding as the primary mechanism, the feds have the most money.

we've had both Labor and Liberal federal governments enact policy that goes against what Gonski recommended
we've had both liberal and labor state governments do the same

so we're not following the model we agreed to

and we're increasing inequality via a policy that was meant to do the opposite

as population increases the cost of education increases, inflation also plays its part

the money has to go up

but its not going up enough and where it is, isn't where it's needed

so you can talk about outcomes for spend all you want, but I know you're doing it to just avoid the problem

Bolded bit. That divide is a consequences of Constitutions, the States and territories are responsible for education so own public schools, the Commonwealth is responsible for providing funding for education generally, it doesn't own schools. Essentially the Commonwealth provides around 20% of each government school’s SRS (Schooling Resource Standard - an estimate of each schools funding needs), the other 80 % is raised by the States/Territories. The Feds provide 80% of each non-government school’s SRS. It's a complicated system of recurrent spending and capital spending. I'm pretty sure it's been explained and debated earlier in this thread. If you are interested, it's worth spending a bit of time understanding it.

The real issue is outcomes. I can't readily find material on recent research but conclusions drawn in 2015 - 2016 in a number of articles show that increase in spending does not guarantee improvement in outcomes. It's only an abstract, the main article not readily available but there's

https://search.informit.org/doi/abs/10.3316/aeipt.214582

 

[Sttew]

So ******* what?

It's mean to be needs based funding, not equal funding.

98% of private schools get more funding than the model says they should and 98% of public schools get less funding

I could not give less of a s**t about per student dollars when you know full well that the private schools get money for the students directly from the parents as well.

This is nothing but politics of envy and class warfare.

- On average, Independent schools receive around half the level of government funding of public schools.​

- Funding in government and non-government schools is based on number and type of students – there is no fixed bucket of money. In non-government schools, funding is reduced according to parents’ income.​

- Funding is tied to student numbers and enrolments in independent schools are growing at a faster rate than Catholic or government schools.​

- Independent school fees vary widely, with half of independent schools charging less than $5,000 per annum.

- Around eighty six per cent of funding for capital works comes from the school community and not from government.

DISPELLING MYTHS - Independent Schools Australia

isa.edu.au