Certified Legendary Thread Q: Why did Freeman Leave St Kilda? (A: He was delisted)

Should the thread be closed

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 29.8%
  • No

    Votes: 33 70.2%

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

Black_White

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2001
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Champion data’s rankings are fairly irrelevant in regards to actual draft order. Stats don’t take scope for development etc in to account. I’m fairly sure that seagull Higgins was their number 1 in 2017, and his ceiling is probably slightly better than Blair.
I was simply pointing out that both Shaza and Freeman were rated higher than Cripps.
This was in response to the assertion that we did not “take the best player available”.
By all accounts we did take the best, higher rated than Cripps, players available.
 

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Apex36

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2014
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I was simply pointing out that both Shaza and Freeman were rated higher than Cripps.
This was in response to the assertion that we did not “take the best player available”.
By all accounts we did take the best, higher rated than Cripps, players available.
Rated by champion data. I know what you were saying. I’m saying that champion data rankings don’t neccessarily reflect the ratings of actual recruiters. If you want to go by those rankings though, we should have taken Sheed, Taylor, Crouch, Dunstan, McCarthy and Honeychurch instead of Freeman. So really we didn’t take best available on that measure either.
 

Black_White

Brownlow Medallist
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Rated by champion data. I know what you were saying. I’m saying that champion data rankings don’t neccessarily reflect the ratings of actual recruiters. If you want to go by those rankings though, we should have taken Sheed, Taylor, Crouch, Dunstan, McCarthy and Honeychurch instead of Freeman. So really we didn’t take best available on that measure either.
Champion data was the only pre draft listing I could find for 2013.
If you can find another pre draft prediction that puts Cripps, above our two selections, I’m happy to concede the assertion that we didn’t take “the best players available”.
Over to you.
 

Black_White

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2001
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Cripps is mentioned there in the prediction of what clubs would pick . Predicted pick 26 for Cripps (Essendon) and pick 13 for Bont (Carl) . They were way off the mark but Carlton has a win win with Bont predicted and Cripps reality.
And even in the prediction non champion data part of the link, Shaza and Freeman go higher than Cripps or the Bont.
More proof we took the best available.
 

Apex36

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2014
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Champion data was the only pre draft listing I could find for 2013.
If you can find another pre draft prediction that puts Cripps, above our two selections, I’m happy to concede the assertion that we didn’t take “the best players available”.
Over to you.
The same list had several other players who were available ahead of Freeman too, I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on Cripps as the example. He’s not the only gun who we passed over. Heck, I’ve already proven via the list you provided that Freeman wasn’t even statistically the best available at our pick. I’m not sure why you need me to go searching for other ratings when you’ve already provided some that don’t actually support what you’re saying....
 

Black_White

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2001
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The same list had several other players who were available ahead of Freeman too, I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on Cripps as the example. He’s not the only gun who we passed over. Heck, I’ve already proven via the list you provided that Freeman wasn’t even statistically the best available at our pick. I’m not sure why you need me to go searching for other ratings when you’ve already provided some that don’t actually support what you’re saying....
Cripps was used earlier as an example of what we “missed”.
I’m not hung up on any particular player.
I am however hung up on posters retrospectively trying to prove their superior knowledge to say Collingwood stuffed up.
Simple facts are that no one could have foreseen the injuries that came. I think that Shaza has shown he could have been a champion. I think Freeman, injury free, would have been the equal of any midfielder we currently have.
So I believe the right choices were made and the Collingwood curse simple killed them.
 

Apex36

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2014
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Cripps was used earlier as an example of what we “missed”.
I’m not hung up on any particular player.
I am however hung up on posters retrospectively trying to prove their superior knowledge to say Collingwood stuffed up.
Simple facts are that no one could have foreseen the injuries that came. I think that Shaza has shown he could have been a champion. I think Freeman, injury free, would have been the equal of any midfielder we currently have.
So I believe the right choices were made and the Collingwood curse simple killed them.
Freeman from all reports I’ve heard, wasn’t a particularly smart footballer. It’s an incredible stretch to assume that he would have become as good as Pendles, Treloar, Sidebottom, or even Adams.
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
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Freeman from all reports I’ve heard, wasn’t a particularly smart footballer. It’s an incredible stretch to assume that he would have become as good as Pendles, Treloar, Sidebottom, or even Adams.
Freeman once collected 20 possessions in a VFL game, I don't think its a stretch at all.
 

Thatsmyname

All Australian
Apr 16, 2019
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That draft cost us a flag. Only 2 players from the top ten haven't played 50 games, go on, guess which 2.

At one stage they were the only 2 players in the top 30 of that draft that hadn't played a single game.
Seriously I have just about ****en had it with the ****en footy gods!!!
Just realized West Coast took Dom Sheed (winning GF goal) with the very next pick after Freeman at pick 11.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2013&t=N&s=P

Mother****er! One ****ing pick and you lose the flag! **** this game!
 

ThePheonix

Senior List
May 21, 2010
202
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Seriously I have just about ****en had it with the ****en footy gods!!!
Just realized West Coast took Dom Sheed (winning GF goal) with the very next pick after Freeman at pick 11.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2013&t=N&s=P

Mother****er! One ****ing pick and you lose the flag! **** this game!

Really? Oh no the 2013 Draft is a nightmare. We could've closed our eyes and picked the players blindly and done a better job. LOL

OK I am not saying we weren't unlucky but I think we could've done a better job cause with Freeman, I'm not convinced he was the best possible choice.
 

Thatsmyname

All Australian
Apr 16, 2019
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Really? Oh no the 2013 Draft is a nightmare. We could've closed our eyes and picked the players blindly and done a better job. LOL

OK I am not saying we weren't unlucky but I think we could've done a better job cause with Freeman, I'm not convinced he was the best possible choice.
We should have picked Dom Sheed then smothered him.
 

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Anzacday

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ThePheonix

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So, for clarification, here is Champion Data’s top 30 predictions for the 2013 draft.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/champion-data-picks-the-top-30-draft-prospects-of-2013/news-story/3bcf9b3562858adb2d2ae13b9868aa80?nk=ee7a1dece9321e58b5688381c73ad381-1557743569

Where is Cripps?

Scharenberg #3
Elite intercept player and ball-winning defender. Has the capacity to push into the midfield. Reads the play exceptionally well.

WE SAY: Sliding down the draft order, making him one of the steals of the draft. Queries on feet issues scaring some clubs.


Freeman #17
Unique ability to win clearances and contested footy but can also breakaway with super pace. Hasn't kicked a lot of goals.

WE SAY: Luke Shuey-type would add much-needed speed to Lions onball division.

So best available?
Makes the criteria when Cripps doesn’t get a mention.

Nightmare's 2013 Phantom Draft;
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2013-phantom-draft.983436/

He said Freeman is a dynamite midfielder but was concerned about his ability to find the footy at the next level.
He had Cripps, McCarthy and Sheed higher than Freeman.
 
Last edited:

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2009
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The same list had several other players who were available ahead of Freeman too, I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on Cripps as the example. He’s not the only gun who we passed over. Heck, I’ve already proven via the list you provided that Freeman wasn’t even statistically the best available at our pick. I’m not sure why you need me to go searching for other ratings when you’ve already provided some that don’t actually support what you’re saying....
The issue is that often best available is probably not particularly clear to the recruiters. There's often probably different blokes they like for different reasons. Some will be safer, some will have higher ceilings, etc..- The recruiter has to make a call on blokes he can't really separate, at which point list needs seems to be a fair enough tie breaker.
 

Saintly Viewed

Gold And Black 1977
Aug 10, 2015
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I made the mistake of contemplating an alternate universe in which the Bulldogs didnt take Bont at 4 and we picked up Bontempelli at 6 then Cripps at 10 in the one draft instead.


I may need a mop and bucket.
Never mind mop and bucket,

A team of cleaners required.
 

Saintly Viewed

Gold And Black 1977
Aug 10, 2015
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Interesting question, if you could only have 1 of Bont, Cripps, or Brown, who would it be?
I’d take The Bont.
But I always thought he’s the one we had wanted then and now.

But Cripps is good.

Caveat: remember if you have them all then they all share the load, no one player dominates with full reign.
 

sr36

Brownlow Medallist
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Interesting question, if you could only have 1 of Bont, Cripps, or Brown, who would it be?
Cripps. He just plays footy the way we all wished we could play.
Bont is awesomely good though.

Ben Brown does't belong in the question.

If you wanted to include all three in a way that was fair to Ben Brown something along the lines of:

Interesting question, if you could only only make a belly button lint doll out of 1 of Bont, Cripps, or Brown, who would it be?

I'd go with Brown, because he's more distinctive looking.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
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Seriously I have just about ****en had it with the ****en footy gods!!!
Just realized West Coast took Dom Sheed (winning GF goal) with the very next pick after Freeman at pick 11.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2013&t=N&s=P

Mother****er! One ****ing pick and you lose the flag! **** this game!
We take Sheed.
But with our luck, they would have picked Freeman, persevered and he’d play in the GF and somehow conspire to kick a winning goal....
That year we actually got pick 6 (used on Scharenberg) from West Coast, and gave them 11 (Sheed). Some other lesser picks were thrown in as well. At West Coast they're probably still smiling over that one, and who could blame them! The Eagles were seemingly very confident of still getting their man with pick 11, and were prepared to do that deal to get a couple of mid-range picks (31 & 49) in exchange for the one (44) they gave us. Funny how these things work out!
 
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