Question about Wallace

[Macca19]

Re: Re: Re: Question about Wallace

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Why do you think this?

Shaw was never successful at the battling Fitzroy, yet Wallace managed to lift the Bullies from cellar dwellars to the finals. IMO, for most of his time he got the most out of the Bullies squad - the same can't be said for Shaw, or any Shaw for that matter.

This is the part i have a disagreance with.

If anything Alan Joyce did a shocking job before Wallace entered the scene.

The Bulldogs list wasnt that light on talent than most here seem to say is fact
Brad Johnson, Rohan Smith, Libber are/were champion midfielders, Scott West is another true champion, add Jose Romero, Steve Kolyniuk, Leon Cameron and Paul Dimmatina when he was a good player and they had one of the best midfields in the business. Chris Grant was just about the best player in the league at that point (he came 2nd in the Brownlow by a vote in 96, and "won" it in 97). Scott Wynd and Darcy were a great ruck duo especially with Darcy playing up forward as well.

Their forward line was more than adequate with Hudson, Darcy, Grant, Cook and Minton Connell all being able to kick a bag of goals.

Their defence was highly underrated with the likes of Dent, Ellis, Croft, Kretiuk.

Add Nathan Brown starting out, Garlick and Montgomery as well.

They werent as light on as everyone thinks. They had a pretty good list. Their finals performances were average. The Bulldogs list at the end of Wallaces time there was in a very poor state as well. Minimal new player development, poor recruiting and trading and a predictable negative gameplan. This is what taints my view of him. Other than his first two full years as coach the Bulldogs turned from near grand finallists to near wooden spooners.

I just dont view him as the superstar coach and the seemingly unquestionable next messiah that a lot of people do on here. Reasonable motivator, good match day coach, poor recruiter. Sure he may currently be the best option available, but that doesnt mean he will automatically bring the ultimate glory. He hasnt in the past.

Crowmosone - if you dont like reading peoples opinions then dont bother reading Bigfooty, or dont bother ever posting one of yours ever again.

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Wallace

Originally posted by Macca19


The Bulldogs list wasnt that light on talent than most here seem to say is fact
Brad Johnson, Rohan Smith, Libber are/were champion midfielders, Scott West is another true champion, add Jose Romero, Steve Kolyniuk, Leon Cameron and Paul Dimmatina when he was a good player and they had one of the best midfields in the business. Chris Grant was just about the best player in the league at that point (he came 2nd in the Brownlow by a vote in 96, and "won" it in 97). Scott Wynd and Darcy were a great ruck duo especially with Darcy playing up forward as well.

Their forward line was more than adequate with Hudson, Darcy, Grant, Cook and Minton Connell all being able to kick a bag of goals.

Their defence was highly underrated with the likes of Dent, Ellis, Croft, Kretiuk.

Add Nathan Brown starting out, Garlick and Montgomery as well.

Geez, Macca, that's the kindest report card I've ever seen you write about a squad that contained more than it's fair share of scrubbers.

Some of those guys you mentioned above were very ordinary footballers.

If they're the best, god help us with the rest.

Wallace must have been a bloody magician to even win games with that lot!!

 

[Macca19]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Wallace

Originally posted by macca23
Geez, Macca, that's the kindest report card I've ever seen you write about a squad that contained more than it's fair share of scrubbers.

Some of those guys you mentioned above were very ordinary footballers.

If they're the best, god help us with the rest.

Wallace must have been a bloody magician to even win games with that lot!!

SCott West is one of the best midfiedlers of the last decade. Thats a fact.

Brad Johnson is one of the best utility players of the last decade. Fact.

Rohan Smith has been one of the best running half backs of the last decade. Again, true.

Liberatore in the Wallace era was the hands down best tagger in the AFL.

Romero was a very good ball winner. Kolyniuk was a good support midfiedler.

Chris Grant was the 2nd best CHF of the 90s. Fact.

Minton Connell was the leading goalkicker at 3 clubs? Not a bad effort.

Paul Hudson in his early bulldogs years would have been the best non-KPP forward going around. 60 goals from a flanker is a bloody good effort.

Leon Cameron was an awesome footballer.

Paul Dimmatina was average yes but he did have one-two years where he was a very good tough long kicking midfielder.

There defence was no name but worked extremely well. Dent and Ellis may have been two average footballers but in the late 90s were hardly beaten. Same with Kretiuk. Scott Wynd is a brownlow medallist. Darcy was a great forward/ruck at that time as well.

There main 18 contained a lot of very very good footballers. THeir depth was very poor but they didnt have many injuries and kept their stars on the park for the majority of the year.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question about Wallace

Originally posted by Macca19
This is the part i have a disagreance with.

If anything Alan Joyce did a shocking job before Wallace entered the scene.

He had certainly lost the dressing room, but he has won premierships also. not a bad coach.

The Bulldogs list wasnt that light on talent than most here seem to say is fact
Brad Johnson, Rohan Smith, Libber are/were champion midfielders, Scott West is another true champion, add Jose Romero, Steve Kolyniuk, Leon Cameron and Paul Dimmatina when he was a good player and they had one of the best midfields in the business.

you are kidding right? Johnson was still a pup, smith was/is a good player. West is top notch granted. the rest, not much about them. Cameron is a bit of a wasted talent. the others good honest triers.

Their forward line was more than adequate with Hudson, Darcy, Grant, Cook and Minton Connell all being able to kick a bag of goals.

this is ludicrous. Hudson, Minton-Connell & cook all recycled players. how can you say that is a great forward line?

Their defence was highly underrated with the likes of Dent, Ellis, Croft, Kretiuk.

underrated? or not rated? Craig Ellis was a talented but unaccountable backman. mathew Dent - not a key backman, but not a bad player. Croft & Kretiuk were honest players.
nothing exciting about this backline, full of honesty - exc ellis - not a flag winning back line.

They werent as light on as everyone thinks. They had a pretty good list. Their finals performances were average. The Bulldogs list at the end of Wallaces time there was in a very poor state as well. Minimal new player development, poor recruiting and trading and a predictable negative gameplan. This is what taints my view of him. Other than his first two full years as coach the Bulldogs turned from near grand finallists to near wooden spooners.

I just dont view him as the superstar coach and the seemingly unquestionable next messiah that a lot of people do on here. Reasonable motivator, good match day coach, poor recruiter. Sure he may currently be the best option available, but that doesnt mean he will automatically bring the ultimate glory. He hasnt in the past.

ok, yours is a marginal opinion, fine. But why do you think your view is marginal? seriously if you think that list was as good as you say it is, when popular opinion suggests it was no more than honest with a couple of key performers - why do you think that is?

Crowmosone - if you dont like reading peoples opinions then dont bother reading Bigfooty, or dont bother ever posting one of yours ever again.

Have a cry, big sooky la la.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Re: Re: Question about Wallace

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
that's the great thing about the BF democracy anyone can say anything that spring to mind, without worrying whether it's remotely true.

if his coaching was so bad, why is he considered a prime candidate for another gig?
wait - I know! it's because those who count DON'T think he was a bad coach. go figure.

FFS.

Macca19 what part of this do you dispute?

 

[McAlmanac]

Liberatore was on the scapheap - it was Wallace who re-invented him.
Cook and Minton-Connell??? Who could seriously suggest these guys werre top line (top 4 side) players.
Dimattina was one of the worst kicks in the AFL.
Kolyniuk? Honest battler.
Kretiuk? Honest battler.
Ellis? One good game, three dodgy ones.

The Bulldogs' depth is illustrated by the fact that a bloke can win 5 best and fairests without being able to kick right foot. That Wallace eked so much out of so many battlers speaks volumes. Any negative game plan was a result of the players at his disposal.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Hmmm, it appears everyone has jumped in an answered Macca19 on my behalf.

Just a couple of points - neither the Bullies nor the Crows had the most talented squads in '97 & '98, yet their respective coaches got the most out of their players. If my memory serves me correctly the Bullies were predicted spooners by most pundits when Wallace took over.

I agree that the Bullies had a good core group of players, but they had quite a few "scrubbers" (as someone else termed it) that made up the numbers but put in consistent performances. Their backline was nothing special - certainly no Harts, Jakovichs, Archers, etc. But Wallace got by most of the time with honest triers - Croft, Kretiuk, Dent, Ellis, etc.

 

[ant]

As I posted in the other thread Kane, we also had our fair share of average players, just like the Bulldogs, but I thought we had the right, key ingredients around the ground in the important areas, that will win you flags. Blighty was the right coach to get the best out of our list.

Wallace was the same with the Bulldogs, there was nothing more he could do really, IMO.

The Bullies may not have been bottom 2 material necessarily but I think their overall talent base was average at best, with a midrange finish the best outcome they could have expected. To end as high up as they did has to be a testimony to Wallace's ability as a coach.

 

[tinman]

Originally posted by Jerome
McKenna has had some coaching experience in the WAFL I think. however my main concern with him would be that he's a defender. I this is just a guess on my part, but the impression i have is that he may have a very defensive approach to his footy - which is exactly what we don't need. It could be more of the same.

McKenna has coached Claremont, but not with any great success. So the same people who discount Craig for his lack of success at Norwood I would assume would discount McKenna for the same reason???

He played in defence, like Malthouse, Roos and Sheedy, a few blokes with pretty reasonable coaching records.......although I agree that defensive approach is evident in Malthouse's coaching and it is early days for Roos.

Gary Ayres wasn't a noted goalkicker either.....so maybe you are onto something

 

[tinman]

Originally posted by McAlmanac
Liberatore was on the scapheap - it was Wallace who re-invented him.
Cook and Minton-Connell??? Who could seriously suggest these guys werre top line (top 4 side) players.
Dimattina was one of the worst kicks in the AFL.
Kolyniuk? Honest battler.
Kretiuk? Honest battler.
Ellis? One good game, three dodgy ones.

The Bulldogs' depth is illustrated by the fact that a bloke can win 5 best and fairests without being able to kick right foot. That Wallace eked so much out of so many battlers speaks volumes. Any negative game plan was a result of the players at his disposal.

Spot on McAlmanac........

Hudson was a talented goalkicker but was completely unaccountable for his player - that's why Hawthorn got rid of him, and eventually the Bullies.

From memory Cameron played only a handful of games in his last 2/3 years at the Dogs. There were never any doubts he could play but he was traded because I think the club finally tired of his injuries. A bit like Welsh - if he manages to injure himself between now and end of season the club may well say enough's enough (not my opinion but I think this is understandable). With the benefit of hindsight I think that trading him has worked out Ok for the Bullies anyway as they picked up Mitchell Hahn and Ryan Hargrave for Cameron who will be good players for years to come (and Wallace must get some credit for recruiting).

West has been a great player but those who criticise Burton for disposal should pay close attention.......

I don't think that the Dogs had a bad list under Wallace, but think that McAlmanac's assessment is a bit closer to the mark.