Racist Cartoon in the Australian

[funkyfreo]

Okay I think you have lost me completely. 2nd Panel = Leak cartoon? The first panel I would see it as:

- Police brutality
- Coppers not being able to express their nicer side

I think I have totally missed the point.

Ha ha me too. Or maybe I just think about these things too much

 

[bunsen burner]

If you are talking about strength, speed, sort of physical attributes, I agree. But I disagree on social issues. We are all as capable as anyone else of the good and bad, just based upon our race.

And we're all capable of being stronger and faster than others individuals of different races.

Do you agree that men are stronger than women? Most non-lesbians and women's rights activists don't have a problem with that statement. It simply means that men are generally stronger than women. Of course some women are stronger than some men, but generally men are stronger. Same thing for your two examples above. Negros have a stereotype to be faster than white people and the Japanese have a stereotype to be smarter than other races.

But of course we know there are exceptions to these rules/stereotypes. But this is assumed knowledge. It's a waste of time to have to stipulate that these exceptions exist.

I pity people like Mr Q, yourself, and especially Mantis who jump up and down about stereotypes if you percieve them as negative but on the other hand are quite happy to accept others.

Seems you all want it both ways.

You make it sound as though the majority DO have the stereotype?

No, that's just you make false assumptions off your own back. I have clearly said that some groups possess enough of a pattern to distinguish them from other groups. Never mentioned the word majority.

stereotype
Function: noun
: something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : an often oversimplified or biased mental picture held to characterize the typical individual of a group

There's more than one definition. I've clearly said numerous times that stereotyping a group with a characteristic is ok, but an individual within that group with that same characteristic not ok.

when you stereotype a group, it is the INDIVIDUAL you are tarnishing.

That's just inside your head. You're quite happy to agree that some races have different physical attributes to others. I'd assume that you are thinking of the group rather than each individual. Can you not see your contradiction?

 

[bunsen burner]

moreso that he effectively utilised racism as a political tool to ensure his election victory.

No evidence of this whatsoever. Once again you are drawing a low bow and making excuses. Howard made people fear terrorism and accept his border control policy.

 

[jim boy]

My question to all, if you want to make it about white domestic violence how do you go about it?

For white society, you can read Australia in general, even if figures are actually higher in awsp categories, therefore you just make them both white with no distinguishing features to draw to a certain category.

To be honest, I'm abit undecided about the 'racist' nature of the cartoon. The cartoon is clearly about domestic violence in aboriginal societies and is quite explicitly so. Cartoons they make sweeping generalisations that are more incidental are more of a concern, but this cartoon is being serious about a serious subject. The question of whether this justified is really at the heart of matter.

Is it pertinent to highlight aboriginals in particular? Do aboriginals have a significantly higher rate of domestic violence than the general community or not?

And even if they do, is it fair to single them out in comparison to other sectors of society which may also have similar or higher rates?

Is the issue significant to society as a whole to justify exploring this theme or is it a case of wanting to 'pin' anything on aboriginals to make them seem as bad as possible?

I don't have the answers to the above, so I'm a little reluctant to condone or condemn.

 

[afc9798]

Howard's fault? Riiiight. Although I don't get the joke from the cartoon I agree it looks racist, but blaming Howard is a bit rich.

Didn't say it was Howard's fault, it's cause and effect. Howard's re-election has allowed those who were watching their P's and Q's a bit more latitude, hence the rash of debates that started about subjects like abortion, disabled people having to do work etc. etc. When a Govt. is re-elected in the fashion that Howard was, the flow on effect is noticable in other areas. Nice try at simplifying the point to the lowest level though.

 

[feher]

For white society, you can read Australia in general, even if figures are actually higher in awsp categories, therefore you just make them both white with no distinguishing features to draw to a certain category.

Just going back to my comment, if we some how do manage to hightlight white domistic disputes only, isn't that going to be seen as racist, as we aren't highlighting all races? been selfish is what I am getting at, not caring about all other race's domistic disputes.

As far as I am concern you wouldn't be able to do it, you would be considered a racist.

 

[- PC -]

This context issue is something that those who are on the feher et al side fail to see sometimes, in my opinion.

The IDENTICAL cartoon could have appeared in National Blackfellahs Magazine and it would not have been racist or even had racial overtones, but would have been valid and confrontational and intelligent social comment.

Its still racist whatever publication it is in.

And Fehers argument is valid. If as you say it was in National Blackfella Mag then its racist towards aborigines..still. If it depicted white people then its racist towards whites.

Your argument you say a black person can slander and defame another and its ok? EEEEErrrrrrr wrong.

 

[demon_dave]

I don't get it domestic violence is not a joke and to highlight one race is wrong.One problem of domestic violence is that is has no boundaries,All races,religions and sexes have people guilty of it.
Also if Murdoch press printed this cartoon in the US about Afro-Americans the lawsuit would be huge so what makes them think they can get away with this here

because this government will let them, the rodent promotes this sort of shyte

 

[- PC -]

Feher - do you see that the cartoon would have had the same effect had there been a black guy on the floor of a cell getting beaten up by a white copper saying "I'll show you touchy feely" may have got coppers upset as being portrayed as black-bashers? That could have been the 1st pane, followed by the second existing one.
Actually it would have been good as it may have shown we were not so touchy feely after all, and it is these hard nasty policies like general brutality to the population over generations that have led to the current situation. It also would have shown that all things are linked and we need a genuine open aproach to reconcilliation so we don;t just go round in circles for another 50 years.

I agree as a series of cartoons it would have meant more IMO..but on its own it looks bad

 

[jim boy]

Just going back to my comment, if we some how do manage to hightlight white domistic disputes only, isn't that going to be seen as racist, as we aren't highlighting all races? been selfish is what I am getting at, not caring about all other race's domistic disputes.

As far as I am concern you wouldn't be able to do it, you would be considered a racist.

Not necessarily, as I said in my last post, highlighting problems within a community isn't necessarily racist.

And as far as 'white' society goes, where do you draw the boundaries exactly? Are you highlighting purely Aussies of British descent and not those from other European countries? Are you only looking at those whove been here two generations or more? White's as a group are a lot harder to define than aboriginals.

And anyway, if a problem was common to all people who might be classified as white, would that not be just seen as a common Australia-wide problem?

 

[hoss]

Didn't like that cartoon much....reminded me of those posters and storybooks in 1930/40's Germany depicting crooks with long noses and wearing Stars of David. Pretty blatant at who it was aimed at.

Bad taste cartoon, but domestic violence should not be swept under the carpet. I had a young lady (17) "arrive" on my doorstep lastnight semi-naked and cut up after feuding. Didn't know what to do in such a small community with no medical, police, welfare agencies. Police won't do a round trip of over 300km for a blackfella fight. After finding some clothes, getting her bandaged up and fed, I gave her a pillow and doona to camp somewhere and "touched wood.".

Surprise, surprise..today the whole family is best of friends and no problems.

Alcohol abuse out here causes so much violence it's not funny. If you are part of the one govt agency in town, you end up having to be doctor, nurse, police, social worker etc. I'm buggered out...and can't wait to start work in Perth.

 

[feher]

And as far as 'white' society goes, where do you draw the boundaries exactly? Are you highlighting purely Aussies of British descent and not those from other European countries? Are you only looking at those whove been here two generations or more? White's as a group are a lot harder to define than aboriginals.

Anyone with white skin not trying to base it on countries at the moment, too tell you the truth the Euro countries hadn't even crossed my mind, I see this as more of a skin issue rather then having to do with any particular nation, at least that was what I was trying to get at.

And anyway, if a problem was common to all people who might be classified as white, would that not be just seen as a common Australia-wide problem?

Maybe.

 

[medusala]

Shoot the messenger!

Numerous aborigines like Noel Pearson and Lowitja O'donohue have called for action on domestic violence but cant mention it to you blokes.

As for Funky Freo saying there is no evidence for it being more prevalent amongst aborigines, see below.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/05/09/1020914030021.html

It is obvious the most immediate problems are those of child abuse and domestic violence. So far, no government, let alone ATSIC, has plucked up the courage to directly address these crises. Yet, after the alarming suggestion by Northern Territory minister Ah Kit that there is almost no functional Aboriginal community in the territory ("In dangerous territory", on this page on March 11), Lorian Hayes of the Cherbourg community said of domestic violence (Channel Nine, April 28), "it's everywhere . . . it touches every Aborigine family in Australia".

The 2000-01 report on child protection vividly illustrates the problems that have arisen from the past policies of promoting separate communities. With limited prospects of economic advancement and in comparative social isolation, it is not surprising that many residents have vented on others their anger and frustration with life.


The report shows a rate of care and protection orders for indigenous children more than six times higher than for non-indigenous children - and warns this may understate the extent. These removals from parents reflect an incapacity to manage children, undoubtedly partly reflecting the domestic violence to which Aboriginal women are 45 times more likely to be subjected than non-indigenous women.

While you lot rant and rave about racism, women and children are getting the crap kicked out of them. Better not talk about it though, as by the definition of racism (The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability) its racist.

Now if only the Australian had shown a priest as a paedophile, then we could all nod our heads at its appropriateness.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Shoot the messenger!

Numerous aborigines like Noel Pearson and Lowitja O'donohue have called for action on domestic violence but cant mention it to you blokes.

As for Funky Freo saying there is no evidence for it being more prevalent amongst aborigines, see below.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/05/09/1020914030021.html

It is obvious the most immediate problems are those of child abuse and domestic violence. So far, no government, let alone ATSIC, has plucked up the courage to directly address these crises. Yet, after the alarming suggestion by Northern Territory minister Ah Kit that there is almost no functional Aboriginal community in the territory ("In dangerous territory", on this page on March 11), Lorian Hayes of the Cherbourg community said of domestic violence (Channel Nine, April 28), "it's everywhere . . . it touches every Aborigine family in Australia".

The 2000-01 report on child protection vividly illustrates the problems that have arisen from the past policies of promoting separate communities. With limited prospects of economic advancement and in comparative social isolation, it is not surprising that many residents have vented on others their anger and frustration with life.


The report shows a rate of care and protection orders for indigenous children more than six times higher than for non-indigenous children - and warns this may understate the extent. These removals from parents reflect an incapacity to manage children, undoubtedly partly reflecting the domestic violence to which Aboriginal women are 45 times more likely to be subjected than non-indigenous women.

While you lot rant and rave about racism, women and children are getting the crap kicked out of them. Better not talk about it though, as by the definition of racism (The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability) its racist.

Now if only the Australian had shown a priest as a paedophile, then we could all nod our heads at its appropriateness.

Oh, I get it now! Domestic violence and child abuse are actually funny! Great target for satire .

 

[medusala]

Oh, I get it now! Domestic violence and child abuse are actually funny! Great target for satire .

You dont think the guy was actually trying to make a point? The same one that numerous aboriginal leaders have been trying to make for some time now.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

You dont think the guy was actually trying to make a point? The same one that numerous aboriginal leaders have been trying to make for some time now.

I do, I just think there were more appropriate ways to do it than a cartoon.

 

[gadj1976]

Is it the editor's job to stop this stuff going into the paper?

 

[theGimp]

Oh, I get it now! Domestic violence and child abuse are actually funny! Great target for satire .

No, sadly you dont get it.

Its a real problem, it really does happen. Your obsessed with pointing your finger and calling racist at the top of your lungs. This might make you feel better about yourself but is it actually helping the situation of teh people you are trying to protect ?

Sadly, Its attitudes like this that prevents action being taken. Domestic violence and abuse is dot being addressed because people are afraid of calling things as they are. The backlash from people like you saying "You cant say that about aboriginies.. You are a racist !!!", is not helping them at all.

Wouldnt it be better to raise awareness of the problem and take steps to solve it instead of ignoring it and pretending everything is fine ?

 

[- PC -]

No, sadly you dont get it.


Sadly, Its attitudes like this that prevents action being taken. Domestic violence and abuse is dot being addressed because people are afraid of calling things as they are. The backlash from people like you saying "You cant say that about aboriginies.. You are a racist !!!", is not helping them at all.

Wouldnt it be better to raise awareness of the problem and take steps to solve it instead of ignoring it and pretending everything is fine ?

Very good point...its like the ''economic argument'' right or wrong as soon as someone questions the input of money into the aboriginal community its racist .

I agree with your point that until we put aside race and look at the problem nothing will get done. Yes white people bash white people , white people get drunk, white people have gangs and white people sexually abuse their children.

But mention it in the context of the aboriginal community and everyone freezes.

IMO the government welfare departments are more loath to act against an aboriginal family due to the ''stolen generation'' issues.

I can see the headlines now...''welfare took my children from me ''

Followed by the headline'' young offender with 93 charges goes back to his dysfunctional family''

Its a no-win situation IMO

 

[MightyFighting]

Well, obviously the best way to bring the problem to light is to make ugly pictures, with no accompanying article to put it in any proper context, and thereby tar the entire aboriginal population.

 

[theGimp]

Well, obviously the best way to bring the problem to light is to make ugly pictures, with no accompanying article to put it in any proper context, and thereby tar the entire aboriginal population.

Nobody has suggested this.
Childish post.

 

[MightyFighting]

Nobody has suggested this.
Childish post.

Bare in mind that this thread is about that cartoon, which is best summed up by my "childish post".

 

[Mr Q]

No, sadly you dont get it.

Its a real problem, it really does happen. Your obsessed with pointing your finger and calling racist at the top of your lungs. This might make you feel better about yourself but is it actually helping the situation of teh people you are trying to protect ?

The very fact that this cartoon could veil an issue clearly proves the point. If there is an issue with domestic violence in Aboriginal communities, a cartoon is probably not in any way an appropriate way to promote discussion as it does not allow for the overall statistics. It might be 45 times higher, but its still not universal.

This is the sort of thing you do with a written article, because in a written article you can deal with the full gamut of required facts to ensure you don't give an incorrect or blurred impression.

Sadly, Its attitudes like this that prevents action being taken. Domestic violence and abuse is dot being addressed because people are afraid of calling things as they are. The backlash from people like you saying "You cant say that about aboriginies.. You are a racist !!!", is not helping them at all.

A cartoon does not have it that it can give the full array of facts in the case. The cartoon implies that domestic violence is a characteristic of Aboriginal people - if it is, then a cartoon is certainly not the right forum in which to present the facts about the situation as it is neither funny nor pointed.

Wouldnt it be better to raise awareness of the problem and take steps to solve it instead of ignoring it and pretending everything is fine ?

Wouldn't it be better to raise awareness by providing all the facts? Something that cannot be done in a cartoon because you don't provide all the pertinent statistics.

 

[theGimp]

The very fact that this cartoon could veil an issue clearly proves the point. If there is an issue with domestic violence in Aboriginal communities, a cartoon is probably not in any way an appropriate way to promote discussion as it does not allow for the overall statistics. It might be 45 times higher, but its still not universal.

This is the sort of thing you do with a written article, because in a written article you can deal with the full gamut of required facts to ensure you don't give an incorrect or blurred impression.


A cartoon does not have it that it can give the full array of facts in the case. The cartoon implies that domestic violence is a characteristic of Aboriginal people - if it is, then a cartoon is certainly not the right forum in which to present the facts about the situation as it is neither funny nor pointed.


Wouldn't it be better to raise awareness by providing all the facts? Something that cannot be done in a cartoon because you don't provide all the pertinent statistics.

I agree. The toon is in poor taste. That's clear for all to see, but as I said it in the last post... Im not suggesting the cartoon is the best way to do it. Thats pretty obvious. I think the cartoon has at least raised awareness of the problem.
Calling racist at every opportunity does far more damage than the do gooders think. It hinders the raising of the subject at all.

 

[theGimp]

Thinking about this more... A well written article with all the proper facts, statistics and analysis will still bring out people saying that the article is racist. I have no doubt of this. Its a no win situation unless the pc pull their heads in a little.