Play Nice Random Chat Thread V

[Swallow_Wood]

Proportionate response.

Two words the Israeli's have no understanding of.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

****ing BANG!

That's the equivalent of the Pickett shirtfront on Krummel.

 

[Grogg]

Proportionate response.

Two words the Israeli's have no understanding of.

The oppressed have become the oppressor.

It's sad that some true diplomacy is never undertaken by the Leader of the Free World (lol). Pulling up Israel's continued expansion might just promote a little goodwill between the US and the Arab world and achieve some semblance of stability. Obviously they don't want that.

 

[DrZaius]

You know what’s driving me crazy? I tried to talk to people about this and they don’t care. The only people I know who seem to care are in here. People just want to talk about what they’re having for dinner or whatever.

I can understand the apathy to the extent that it is very much out of sight out of mind for most of us. The Israel apologists though (whether they are actually knowledgeable on the matter or not, as many of them aren't) make my blood boil, and more often than not always seem to be coming from the view that brown people = terrorist so therefore they deserve it?

It really shouldn't be a controversial opinion to decry apartheid & ethnic cleansing but here we are.

 

[Del191229]

 

[EDFL follower]

Proportionate response.

Two words the Israeli's have no understanding of.

Why should there response be proportionate?

 

[Val Keating]

Why should there response be proportionate?

Do you have any skin in this by any chance?

 

[Ligma]

Second favourite for me.
sauerkraut number 1 with a bullet!

I have to agree with you on this one hehehe

 

[travelli]

Why should there response be proportionate?

because indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is a little murderous?

 

[EDFL follower]

Do you have any skin in this by any chance?

No not at all. Just dont get why most people seem to be so sympathetic to the Palestinians and not so much the Jews. Surely the Hamas response wasnt proportionate initially?

 

[Swallow_Wood]

Why should there response be proportionate?

Because it is immoral and utterly unethical to use state of the art fighter jets and missiles en masse against a defenceless civilian population in response to comparatively shitty mortar and rocket attacks, the majority of which get shot out of the sky by a state of the art missile defence system.

The IDF, and by extension the state of Israel, are nothing more than war criminals.

 

[EDFL follower]

because indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas is a little murderous?

Is there only one side guilty of this though or are both doing the same?

 

[Val Keating]

No not at all. Just dont get why most people seem to be so sympathetic to the Palestinians and not so much the Jews. Surely the Hamas response wasnt proportionate initially?

No one is defending hamas. Read this first hand experience.

Opinion | My Child Asks, ‘Can Israel Destroy Our Building if the Power Is Out?’ (Published 2021)

Being a good parent in Gaza means developing a knack for what Israel’s drones and F-16’s will do next.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Swallow_Wood]

No not at all. Just dont get why most people seem to be so sympathetic to the Palestinians and not so much the Jews. Surely the Hamas response wasnt proportionate initially?

Violence is a no-no, so what Hamas have done is not on. They are murderers.

The context of their actions is important however. Hamas represent a stateless people whose homeland has been gradually stolen from them over decades and nothing can be done to stop it. So they fight however they can and to me that seems fairly proportionate to the loss of their home.

Israeli use of the best US military tech on a civilian population living in relative squalor as a concequence of Israeli action is utterly unproportionate comparatively. I don't know how this can't be as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

[Val Keating]

Is there only one side guilty of this though or are both doing the same?

Are you familiar with the history of how the Zionist’s took over that part of the world?

 

[Val Keating]

I saw the #IsrealTerrorist hash tag trending and clicked on it. My god I wish I hadn’t. Those poor kids

 

[Swallow_Wood]

Is there only one side guilty of this though or are both doing the same?

I guess if you think that someone kicking in your front door is the same as someone burning down your house, then yeah, both are doing the same.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Thing that amazes me is that for all we venerate the Anzacs, we don't seem to care too much about their stunning military successes there.

Beersheeba gets a run now ands then, but more due to the novelty of being the last great successful cavalry charge.

But yeah, you're right - why should we care about some ancient religious/ethnic blue on the other side of the world?

Melbourne having such a large and politically prominent Jewish population probably explains a bit lol.

But you know what I meant. We should absolutely care, but I rather be pro for both sides as it is the common person that is being most affected by historical grievances inherited from a 100+ years of history, colonial powers, external powers, wars and bad faith political actors at home.

Spoiler: Long winded crap

Israeli perspective:

• Have endured some of the worst consistent persecution for over a thousand years. Countless pogroms and an attempt at genocide in just the last century. Thereby, cementing a sense of persecution as a part of the Jewish psyche and political decision-making. If you think they are attempting genocide now, you have not being paying attention.
• Have been wanderers after being a proud ancient kingdom.
• Inherited a number of Zionist leaders that were nutty in their ambitions in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
• Were forced to create armed enclosed settlements during Ottoman times to protect against Arab attacks, just after they fled eastern European pogroms. Again, informs much of the current psyche.
• Inherited the Balfour Declaration, which screwed the Arabs and forever cemented tensions between the Jewish and Muslim peoples.
• Sectarian violence for much of the 1920s and 1930s between both sides.
• Endured the Holocaust, which was supported by a small number of European Muslims and the Mufti of Jerusalem. Left without a home and filled with Zionist ideas of ‘resurrection’.
• Then comes the UN Resolution 181 in 1947 that tried to make the best of a really bad situation. Neither side is happy, but the Jewish people were seemingly favoured, which contributed to a civil and then an external war that featured multiple atrocities from all factions.
• The Arab powers intervene for their own reasons and Israel wins, but is surrounded. Turns to colonial powers and US. Again, informs the national psyche that continues to this day.
• Suez Crisis in 1956, where Israel’s politicians got overambitious and I dare say, greedy.
• PLO established in 1964 committed to the destruction of all Jews in the region. Played on genocide feelings.
• Six Days and Yom Kippur conflicts didn’t help isolation feelings.
• Involvement in Lebanon to expel PLO fighters from Lebanon.
• Oslo Accords signed in the 1993 and 1995, which set out areas of control in the West Bank and a resolution of sorts between the PLO and Israel, with the former dropping the whole genocide thing. The accords are undermined by bad faith actors on both sides with Jewish settlers and politicians not helping. PLO corruption and weak control didn’t help either, resulting in a second intifada.
• A second intifada and new suicide bombings targeting Israel citizens from 2000-05, including bus bombings of kids.
• Since 2005, there has been interventions and conflicts with Hezbollah and Hamas. Hamas has often deliberately targeted civilian targets and has continually launched rockets from Gaza. They have never withdrawn their desire for the complete eradication of Jews. Imagine having neighbours that want your entire people gone.
• The current round started over 6 houses in Jerusalem that have been in legal battle for over 50 years. The case is with the Israeli Supreme Court, that serves both Palestinians and Israelis and has Muslim and Jewish judges.
• Arabs serve freely in the Israeli army and have the exact same rights as Jews in Israel.
• Israeli military thinkers accidently create Hamas, good work d / h 's.
• Now Hamas starts with rockets first targeting Israeli civilians, Israel responds in its typical heavy handed manner and now have what is happening at this moment.

Palestinian perspective:

• Effectively lost three wars that resulted in a gradual loss of territory, even though they had no choice in the latter two. Lead to mass migration that destabilised Lebanon.
• On top of everything mentioned above, you have been the playthings of Arab rulers, the Ottoman Empire, colonial rulers and the UN drawing lines. They were used as cannon fodder by the Turks for much of their history.
• Jewish settlers eat away at your own territory, though sometimes, the Israeli government does force its own citizen settlers out.
• Two intifadas that resulted in a massive crackdown, death and heavy handed tactics.
• Again, heavy handed tactics during military crackdowns and air strikes. Causalities are worsened by Hamas’ use of human shields and deliberately establishing localised bases in civilian buildings.
• Israeli war crimes that are seldom punished.
• You have an ineffectual governing body in the West Bank and you have a bunch of genocidal terrorists in Hamas controlling the Gaza Strip. There are power shortages, most of the population is 18 and under, medicine is a problem and there are shortages of everything bar weapons. So, the civilians on the ground have to put up with all this on a daily basis. They suffer every time Hamas launches rockets targeting Israeli civilians and the Israeli’s respond in a heavy-handed fashion that kills kids and civilians. Hamas then uses human shields and then plays the victim.
• Sadly, it is war at the moment and suffering always follows.
• Then there are Hamas rockets falling short, killing kids and civilians. https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/05/...before-idf-airstrikes-says-security-official/
• You have tensions between Hamas and Fatah. Hamas sprung out of the first intifada thanks to Israel, not the biggest fans of the PLO.

At this point, I don’t see an attempt at genocide, or ethnic cleansing. The Jewish people have been targets for ethnic cleansing on a number of occasions and were nearly wiped out not even a century ago. I cannot seriously entertain the thought that they would deliberately return the favour after how much they have suffered. What I honestly see is a bunch of bad faith actors using historical grievances to retain their own power and the local population of both respective nations suffering as a result. I don’t have a clue how to fix it either, but I support the right to self-determination and prosperity for both peoples.

People can feel free to disagree as I don’t know every single thing about one of the most complicated conflicts in human history, but that’s my two cents on it all.

 

[Del191229]

Hamas is initially an Israeli creation/aided and abetted by Israel which is quite lol.

 

[DesertRoo]

Hamas is initially an Israeli creation which is quite lol.

Needed someone to fight the plo..

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Hamas is initially an Israeli creation/aided and abetted by Israel which is quite lol.

Needed someone to fight the plo..

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

I'm sure there is a meme floating around for this...

 

[DesertRoo]

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

I'm sure there is a meme floating around for this...

We were talking about the Salvador option the other day.. it stems from the above. Israelis trained the yanks how to do it.

 

[Del191229]

Needed someone to fight the plo..

And to discredit the secular resistance by acting all crazy and jihadi.

Bashar used the same trick decades later.

 

[Mcarcherey]

So you’re ok with terrorism as a response? They’re killing civilians. Children have been killed. It’s a disgrace. They got found guilty of the crime of apartheid a couple of weeks ago by the human rights watch. To put that into perspective, the human rights watch hasn’t said the same about the treatment of the Uighurs. This latest thing started when the Israelis fired tear gas and rubber bullets into a Mosque during Ramadan.

It’s a disgrace.

Haven't Israeli civilians been killed?

why after no action for 4 years have Israel suddenly attacked first? yet after Hamas was given $250m by Biden, boom Israel attacked Palestine, strange.

Disagree, HRW are shamefully calling what's happening Xinjiang "genocide" all the time.

We see today what proper oppression and colonisation looks like, it is very different to what is actually happening in Xinjiang.

Weren't the Israelite's there first...?

 

[Del191229]

Weren't the Israelite's there first...?

The Jewish texts are themselves very clear that there were already lots of people living in the Promised Land when the Israelites turned up and proceeded to enact genocide on them