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[Hubnester]

Me from my echo chamber: Everything that disagrees with my world view is propaganda!

Will never understand how people can get so caught up in the primitive tribalism of us vs them they can ignore blatant facts. Some things aren't determined by politics.

 

[Crusty Undies]

I've never seen hubris like it. You know everything. A true doomer. Keep typing. I'm trying to help people. Tell you what pack up your research, come down to Bairnsdale and enlighten all of us, before you forget some of what little you know.

The people down here would love to be blessed by your "extensive" research into left wing propaganda, your incredible knowledge and vast life experience. Leave the work to the adults, doomer. Keep researching in your echo chamber. Your last post is one of the most hilarious things I've read. Now that's going straight to the pool room. My pool room. In a house I worked to pay off. I take it your pool room actually belongs to your mummy and daddy.
Boomers are they?

Actually I stopped reading after a few paragraphs. Tea break's over. Back to work. I showed it to a couple of people here. They would love to meet you. Come on down. I can't guarantee your physical safety, unfortunately.

You're the expert on that. Name calling. Advise your little doomer mate he should refrain also. At least I have a mind of my own.

So you're threatening me with assault because you don't agree with what I've said and have no valid counterargument? Typical.

That's alright though mate so long as they come 1 or 2 at a time I'm not to worried. I doubt they've fought a kickboxer before.

You really don't see just how hypocritical you are, do you? I'm honestly astounded at how capable you are of compartmentalising. I haven't name called anything past calling you a boomer. Which you act like.

Maybe you should come up here to Monash Clayton mate. Can't guarantee your physical safety though. You probably won't anyway though, too much risk of learning something right?

 

[Crusty Undies]

Still no takers?

So a bushfire expert that has lived and breathed this stuff for a living and is now 77 has no idea??????

So he has an idea, but the 37 ex fire chiefs and thousands of climate scientists don't? Ok.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Who'd have thought - Crusty Undies is Big Footy's St Jude - the patron Saint of lost causes.

Wind change is just starting to occur down here - good for us on the coast - bad for those in the hills. And unfortunately the forecast for rain keeps getting downgraded - 8 to 20mm has now become 2 to 6. Bugger!!!

The truth is a bit less altruistic than that... I just get a kick out of seeing people lose their s**t because they don't have a leg to stand on to be honest.

 

[Mowman]

Really just embarrassing

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

So he has an idea, but the 37 ex fire chiefs and thousands of climate scientists don't? Ok.

Yep, the bloke doesnt fit your left wing Guardian narrative so you dismiss him. There are other prominent bushfire scientists saying the same thing.

Read and listen to him.

 

[CursingFijian]

Please take the time to hear from this very intelligent, expierenced and well qualified man (an OAM) on the issue:

Scientist David Packham on what’s really causing the bushfires

As former State Fire Chiefs call for a summit on bushfires, expert and scientist David Packham explains that it has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with fuel-loads.

volunteerfirefighters.org.au

Plus this guy warned us several times in the past. Thanks to the green lunacy, they never listened or got the job done in time. Just one article from 5 years ago:

Bushfire scientist David Packham warns of huge blaze threat, urges increase in fuel reduction burns

Forest fuel levels have climbed over the past 30 years because of "misguided green ideology", vested interests, political failure and mismanagement, creating a massive bushfire threat, a former CSIRO bushfire scientist has warned.

www.google.com

TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN AND READ. IT MIGHT PUT THE GLOBAL WARMING HYSTERIA SURROUNDING THE BUSHFIRES TO BED FOR SOME...BUT I DOUBT IT.

He’s not wrong when he says the intensity of the bushfire is about fuel loads. Nobody is denying that. The underlying question though is what are the reasons for the fuel buildup. Political inaction, bureaucracy, defunding of fire services, public opposition to back burning as a fire prevention strategy can all be raised at this point. But it’s extremely hard to avoid the fact that rising temperatures and lengthening droughts are also causative factors. Then that leads to a discussion about climate.

Climate change may have nothing to do with it at all. But to completely dismiss it from the outset (because his god has a plan?!), without any scientific research is so disrespectful of the communities that he is meant to be serving and protecting.

 

[CursingFijian]

I had to laugh. Trümpfie just told us that America killed Major General Qassem Suleimani, to prevent a war, not start one. Suleimani was one of the most popular leaders, not only in Iran, but the entire region. When I worked in Iran, his dial was on the TV almost every day. The people loved him. A celebrity, if you like. The Shiites saw him as a saviour and uniter. Trümpfie just shot Bambi's mum.

Iran will be a formidable opponent. Well armed, technologically advanced and fighting on its home ground. Erbuz mountains to the north. Turkey and Russia beyond that. Afghanistan to the east. Rugged inhospitable coastline. Good luck Uncle Sam. You're gonna need it.

It’s all so murky and shady it makes me despair about the world some times. I read that Suleimani worked closely with America immediately after 9/11 and probably because Iran has a strong anti Saudi agenda. The chief negotiators with the UN at the time say he was on the precipice of signalling that Iran wanted to redefine its relationship with the US to be a friendlier one, then Bush used the words ‘axis of evil’ and it all flipped.

Anyway mate, we don’t always agree but you’re at our frontlines right now and I wish I was close enough to stand with you and lend a hand.

Stay safe.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Yep, the bloke doesnt fit your left wing Guardian narrative so you dismiss him. There are other prominent bushfire scientists saying the same thing.

Read and listen to him.

No there aren't. I already did listen.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

He’s not wrong when he says the intensity of the bushfire is about fuel loads. Nobody is denying that. The underlying question though is what are the reasons for the fuel buildup. Political inaction, bureaucracy, defunding of fire services, public opposition to back burning as a fire prevention strategy can all be raised at this point. But it’s extremely hard to avoid the fact that rising temperatures and lengthening droughts are also causative factors. Then that leads to a discussion about climate.

Climate change may have nothing to do with it at all. But to completely dismiss it from the outset (because his god has a plan?!), without any scientific research is so disrespectful of the communities that he is meant to be serving and protecting.

What are you on about?

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

No there aren't. I already did listen.

Keep telling yourself that! Its amazing when people only want to see and hear what they want to listen to.

The fact you are dismissing one of Australia's best scientists on bushfires in its history is simply hilarious and mind boggling. Just shows your true bias and narritive regarding climate change and its links to the current bushfires.

Do some more reading:

Prescribed burning 'key to controlling fires'

A forestry expert, Vic Jurskis has condemned bushfire prevention strategies in an open letter to the Prime Minister and premiers, saying it is entirely within their power to put an end to the situation by prescribed burning. VFFA Vice President, Mr Williams says that the hazard-approval process...

volunteerfirefighters.org.au

 

[gringo2011]

No. I don't like your arrogance. It is stunning and quite offensive. Don't forget I married a Brit and enjoyed many happy years with her and her family. Great people.

What I don't like is the arrogance and laughable rewriting of history. It's understandable, given the truth. Ask any Indian, African, Aborigine etc. They're not fans of the empire, either. In fact, apart from yourselves, I don't think anyone's a fan. Not a fan of your masters and the inbred twits, the Royal leeches. I'm sure you're quite a decent chap.

I'm not sure that the Germans didn't have their own issues with imperialism. They were a lot more successful in Africa than in Europe though.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

Keep telling yourself that! Its amazing when people only want to see and hear what they want to listen to.

The fact you are dismissing one of Australia's best scientists on bushfires in its history is simply hilarious and mind boggling. Just shows your true bias and narritive regarding climate change and its links to the current bushfires.

Do some more reading:

Prescribed burning 'key to controlling fires'

A forestry expert, Vic Jurskis has condemned bushfire prevention strategies in an open letter to the Prime Minister and premiers, saying it is entirely within their power to put an end to the situation by prescribed burning. VFFA Vice President, Mr Williams says that the hazard-approval process...

volunteerfirefighters.org.au

And some more reading:

NSW fires: Hazard reduction burns key to controlling busfires, says forestry expert

www.google.com

And I quote:
Fire captain Brian Williams, 73, vice-president of the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association, supports the prescribed burn argument. He spoke after a 12-hour night shift fighting the Three Mile fire burning north-east of Wiseman's Ferry.
Mr Williams said: "The hazard-approval process is what is stuffing the whole process.
"It is bogged down by green [environmental] and red tape which makes getting approval for a prescribed burn a very slow and complex process.
"They have introduced a system that makes it virtually impossible to manage the bush in a sustainable way. I am just one of thousands of volunteers out there who are frustrated."

 

[gringo2011]

Meeting all our targets for carbon reduction. As are the yanks. Unlike India and China. So we appear to be playing by the rules as they stand. Research and development of renewable is galloping ahead.

Check investments, both government and private if you need encouragement. Along with AI, it is a burgeoning sector. The "greenstocks". Germany will have 85% renewable energy use by 2025. The price for this? Greater cost, but the public there accept this fact and are happy to cough up.

In this society, energy prices are a politically sensitive issue, which can easily swing an election at both state and federal levels. Truth be told, most people want clean energy. The sad fact is most don't want to pay more, which is what it will take in the short term at least. As Paul Keating said, "In a race always back self interest. At least you know it's trying."

It is said Americans show their patriotism by sticking a US flag on their front lawn. Germans show their patriotism by voting for higher taxes, so all members of their society get access to necessary services.

Clean energy will happen. It has to. There are powerful vested interests working against this, but they'll eventually get on board when the tipping point is reached and there'll be more money in clean energy than fossil fuels. So we wait. And hope.

We aren't meeting our targets unless we use credits that were from a past agreement. I think that's what pisses me off most, we are bullshitting. At least say they don't want to hurt the mining sector and we are like Trump ripping up the agreements.

My mate has just left AGL in the last week so I can say who he works for. He is going into consultancy because all the investment is coming from our super funds. He said all these predators are bullshitting money from them claiming to be green but just front companies. He reckons he can get proper investment in renewables for them and that's the big pushers of investment in Oz. The federal government doesn't even have a policy for it yet. They certainly don't invest any more than a bare minimum. They still give you money to businesses that apply to become more green but they don't need to do much.

 

[gringo2011]

Please take the time to hear from this very intelligent, expierenced and well qualified man (an OAM) on the issue:

Scientist David Packham on what’s really causing the bushfires

As former State Fire Chiefs call for a summit on bushfires, expert and scientist David Packham explains that it has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with fuel-loads.

volunteerfirefighters.org.au

Plus this guy warned us several times in the past. Thanks to the green lunacy, they never listened or got the job done in time. Just one article from 5 years ago:

Bushfire scientist David Packham warns of huge blaze threat, urges increase in fuel reduction burns

Forest fuel levels have climbed over the past 30 years because of "misguided green ideology", vested interests, political failure and mismanagement, creating a massive bushfire threat, a former CSIRO bushfire scientist has warned.

www.google.com

TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN AND READ. IT MIGHT PUT THE GLOBAL WARMING HYSTERIA SURROUNDING THE BUSHFIRES TO BED FOR SOME...BUT I DOUBT IT.

I don't think that is anything new. The article says of the Andrews government "some say they might scrap it". It looks like alarmist crap. They are trying to burn off but councils sell land close to bush for housing so reduce their ability to burn there. They have smaller windows to do the burns also.

Factcheck: Is there really a green conspiracy to stop bushfire hazard reduction?

Firefighters are trying to contain dozens of fires across two states, but a familiar blame game has already begun

www.theguardian.com

 

[gringo2011]

Money drives everything. Even the desire to repair the planet. If someone isn't getting a cut, or making a quid it seems to get deprioritised.

As I said, powerful interests control the outcomes. When it becomes profitable, after they've sucked every last cent out of fossil fuels, we'll see the necessary changes made.

I think you're probably following the wrong money trail myself.

 

[Johnnyrayflamingo]

I don't think that is anything new. The article says of the Andrews government "some say they might scrap it". It looks like alarmist crap. They are trying to burn off but councils sell land close to bush for housing so reduce their ability to burn there. They have smaller windows to do the burns also.

Factcheck: Is there really a green conspiracy to stop bushfire hazard reduction?

Firefighters are trying to contain dozens of fires across two states, but a familiar blame game has already begun

www.theguardian.com

The Guardian...a known left wing over the top pro climate change news outlet.

Please spare me...FFS and listen to this bloke and those like him going forward after these bushfires finish!!!

All these urban elites and latte sipping vegan greenies need to get their heads out of their arse and stop this madness!

Let the bushfire experts, land managers and volunteers do their ******* job in the scrub to get rid of or minimise these tinderbox fuel loads!!!

 

[gringo2011]

What can I say, I've got to remain hopeful about something.

I stopped worrying about politics once I realised that hardly anyone ever changes sides. Both sides of politics are usually firmly entrenched in their own ideas of what their political bent represents. I was a bit of a political warrior once. But I came to the conclusion that most people are already closed to being convinced. You just have to live the way you think is right and hope it catches on.

 

[gringo2011]

The Guardian...a known left wing over the top pro climate change news outlet.

Please spare me...FFS and listen to this bloke and those like him going forward after these bushfires finish!!!

All these urban elites and latte sipping vegan greenies need to get their heads out of their arse and stop this madness!

Let the bushfire experts, land managers and volunteers do their ******* job in the scrub to get rid of or minimise these tinderbox fuel loads!!!

I don't think anyone is stopping the fuel reduction like this guy claims. They actually do this but the conditions are rarely right. What madness are they not stopping? I know where we are it's conditions or proximity to houses that stops them. They have been trying to get to us for 3 years but can't get the window with low winds and cool not too dry/wet weather. My sister and nephew work for the DSE (I think they have a new name but can't remember what), I know what they do and don't do. They have powers to override all sorts of council processes if they want to. No Greenies are in there telling them s**t. They cut breaks into old growth forest, they cut access tracks, they burn in alpine regions, farming communities anything. Maybe if they had a more staff they could do more but they are out there doing it. My nephew is off work because he dropped a massive old tree in state forest on himself cutting some breaks. No one even questions them since black Saturday.

 

[gringo2011]

Really just embarrassing

You do know both sides think you're talking about the others. It's fun Mowy, just like one of our dysfunctional family Christmas luches. Everyone knows you shouldn't talk politics, but three hours later no-one likes each other any more. Just enjoy the circus.

 

[bergholt]

I haven't fully caught up with this thread, down the coast with limited internet.

Please take the time to hear from this very intelligent, expierenced and well qualified man (an OAM) on the issue:

Scientist David Packham on what’s really causing the bushfires

As former State Fire Chiefs call for a summit on bushfires, expert and scientist David Packham explains that it has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with fuel-loads.

volunteerfirefighters.org.au

Plus this guy warned us several times in the past. Thanks to the green lunacy, they never listened or got the job done in time. Just one article from 5 years ago:

Bushfire scientist David Packham warns of huge blaze threat, urges increase in fuel reduction burns

Forest fuel levels have climbed over the past 30 years because of "misguided green ideology", vested interests, political failure and mismanagement, creating a massive bushfire threat, a former CSIRO bushfire scientist has warned.

www.google.com

TAKE THE TIME TO LISTEN AND READ. IT MIGHT PUT THE GLOBAL WARMING HYSTERIA SURROUNDING THE BUSHFIRES TO BED FOR SOME...BUT I DOUBT IT.

Based on a little I've read, I reckon it's unlikely these bushfires were particularly caused or even exacerbated much by climate change.

But in 5-10 years the same won't be true. This summer is a great example of how things are likely to be in the future for Australia as climate change increases - droughts, hotter temperatures, likely fires through areas with high fuel loads. (The only tiny, tiny silver lining of this fire season is that it's reducing fuel loads for the future.)

Do our 1% of global emissions make much difference? No.

But politically we need to be in a position where we can push others for global action otherwise our droughts and temperatures are just going to get worse and worse.

It's pretty hard for us to push for global action if we're not taking action ourselves. So IMO the only option is for Australia to take reasonably strong action in parallel with pushing others to do the same.

Otherwise I reckon we're pretty likely to see this sort of stuff more regularly than every 20 years or so.

 

[Mowman]

You do know both sides think you're talking about the others. It's fun Mowy, just like one of our dysfunctional family Christmas luches. Everyone knows you shouldn't talk politics, but three hours later no-one likes each other any more. Just enjoy the circus.

Spot on

 

[jwikked]

Still no takers?

So a bushfire expert that has lived and breathed this stuff for a living and is now 77 has no idea??????

It's strange (but not surprising) that you'll accept as gospel the word of one guy you agree with, but you'll totally ignore (and insult) the literally 10's of thousands of climate scientists who you don't want to agree with. No one is debating with you because there's no point. You've picked your team and the facts don't matter.
It's not much different to debating a flat earther. What's the point in wasting your time on someone who is so unwilling to accept any facts they disagree with?

 

[gringo2011]

I just spoke to my sister, she's fighting a fire at Dargo up in the hills. She said they expect storms through Gippsland and that could start a whole lot of smaller fires. It's ******* nuts out there. Dargo is a pretty little town with a historic pub, I hope it survives.

 

[gringo2011]

It's strange (but not surprising) that you'll accept as gospel the word of one guy you agree with, but you'll totally ignore (and insult) the literally 10's of thousands of climate scientists who you don't want to agree with. No one is debating with you because there's no point. You've picked your team and the facts don't matter.
It's not much different to debating a flat earther. What's the point in wasting your time on someone who is so unwilling to accept any facts they disagree with?

The problem is we both keep putting up evidence that the other side doesn't want to acknowledge. The fires are ****ed no matter what political persuasion you lean towards. I found myself looking up articles to try to one up him, I finally worked out there wasn't much point. I think he's pretty entrenched in his views. You just have to hope he's right or that the world will move to making sensible choices to prevent this summer being the new normal.

Anyway I realised that showing him my oneupmanship was pointless so I'll show you my good google work instead.

Former Australian fire chiefs say Coalition ignored their advice because of climate change politics

Former heads of state fire services say government ‘fundamentally doesn’t like talking about climate change’

www.theguardian.com