Discussion Random Discussion

[gringo2011]

Yesterday as I was walking through town I noticed so many women looking all hot n sweaty in this unseasonably hot weather.
I thought wow so many short skirts and it's only spring.
As lay in bed last night thinking about all those sweaty legs and cleavages i decided to do something about global warming.

So today i traded in my Toyota Corolla Hybrid for a Hummer.
Bring on the endless summer

Yeah, I'm going out to burn tyres right now, I'm only a few kms from the beach, a few more melted polar caps and we're beachfront.

 

[gringo2011]

I find it hard to take you seriously when you winge and blame everything you can on the generations that came before you, which is a pity because you post some interesting things.

Quite apart from it not being true about older generations you have no idea what individuals who post here do in their day to day lives.

Perhaps someone else will have the stats but I believe we’re ranked pretty highly on most rankings for change and new tech uptake.

Exactly but it’s not imo a generational thing, extreme wealth and power seems to have the same intoxicating effects no matter what generation has it.

Bill gates and warren buffet are examples of older guys putting their money into philanthropy and leaving it largely to charity just to name two. In the past when a wealth gap like this has existed it has lead to war or revolution.

It would be better if guys like Gates and Buffet would pay tax and not use charity as an out. Philanthropy is great but not if you avoid contributing in other ways. The world is going through a real phase of greed and excess. My dad tells me about the 1980s where it all dropped off a cliff and society changed as the markets crashed, perhaps we need that again. There seems to be a really uneven spread of wealth and less people have access to a high standard of living even in the west. If you read Thomas Picketty the distribution is as bad or worse than the feudal days of the past where you had indentured serfs.

My dad said that when he was young you could get a job with the SEC or even like the Post office, you would have enough to buy a house, boat, new car and support a family on a single income. In the US now the middle class have to have 2 adults working full time and one doing two jobs to have the same life style they had 15 years ago with out the same workload. If someone gets sick it costs all their assets and savings to get treatment for things like cancer.

People are going to get more and more dissatisfied by that life and demand more. Even if it's not generational the power structures need to be changed so that something more equitable to more people is brought in. Corporations have infiltrated governments and wealthy individuals have the system stacked towards them increasing their wealth.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Trav going full savage.

i apologise ... i was a tad over the top yesterday and got perhaps too agressive over a subject i do feel very pasionate about ... its one of those things that gets me fully triggered when you get that old fashioned point of veiw of "well we are not the worst so why change" ...
sorry to the Forum for dragging it down ...
#movingon

 

[StCicatriz]

Unfortunately there are heaps of these. I've worked in tech for 20 years. We don't do much of it particularly well in Australia. Almost all the smart people have to go overseas - and then they earn $400k+ when here they could have earned $150k.

Almost all of our big tech companies do most of their business in Australia (realestate.com.au, Carsales, Seek, Afterpay, Ozforex, Xero, Domain, MYOB, IRESS, Tyro, Vinomofo). There are some which are more global (Atlassian, Canva, WiseTech, Envato, Catapult Sports, RedBubble, CultureAmp, Campaign Monitor, Freelancer, Siteminder).

This is a problem for our economy. Tech companies are the major ones growing and creating jobs at the moment, but where are our Google, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, etc?

I asked a question up in the thread which no-one answered because it was too hard. Let me rephrase a little:

- Name 5 Australian companies that are globally recognised for what they do

this and if we do have them, they're quickly acquired and rolled up into a bigger entity

but it isnt an issue unique to australia, its an overall problem with tech companies at the moment. the game plan is you get big enough to get acquired by a bigger company and cash in. the tech companies are deliberately acquiring everything and anything to be these super entities.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

i apologise ... i was a tad over the top yesterday and got perhaps too agressive over a subject i do feel very pasionate about ... its one of those things that gets me fully triggered when you get that old fashioned point of veiw of "well we are not the worst so why change" ...
sorry to the Forum for dragging it down ...
#movingon

I kind of get shitted off by people who call me old fashioned for not wanting to take ineffective action.
I support nuclear energy is that old fashioned? ( but no its not part of the green agenda ).
I note the use of the word FASHION which should be nothing to do with the discussion.

"Hey Saints September, all the cool people are trying to reduce CO2 at any cost , get with the times buddy "

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I find it hard to take you seriously when you winge and blame everything you can on the generations that came before you, which is a pity because you post some interesting things.

Quite apart from it not being true about older generations you have no idea what individuals who post here do in their day to day lives.

Perhaps someone else will have the stats but I believe we’re ranked pretty highly on most rankings for change and new tech uptake.

for the record i dont hat the older generation and i dont blame the entire generation for the ills of the world ... I do how ever blame the leaders we have on the back of the older generation... our leadership is the big issue the greed and disregard for anyone or anything is the issue ... we have politicians who are focused only on retaining their seat this is an issue that is stifling the younger generation the leaders govern to apease the people who are going to keep them in power .. thats my issue with the older generation... its not mum and dad who worked hard for years with the want to retire comfortable thats the problem .. its the Mr billionaire with his 15 investment properties that is more cost effective to leave vacant and claim tax benifits from then it is to have tenants in .. its Mr Politician who sells out workers to abolish penalty rates cause he doesnt want to spend 5% more on a sunday .. dont get me wrong the younger generation are not alone in being screwed by these guys Pensioners, disabled and minorities all cop it as well ... so its not the whole generation its just the ones from that generation who are in power (and the ones who excuse and welcome it) ...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It would be better if guys like Gates and Buffet would pay tax and not use charity as an out. Philanthropy is great but not if you avoid contributing in other ways. The world is going through a real phase of greed and excess. My dad tells me about the 1980s where it all dropped off a cliff and society changed as the markets crashed, perhaps we need that again. There seems to be a really uneven spread of wealth and less people have access to a high standard of living even in the west. If you read Thomas Picketty the distribution is as bad or worse than the feudal days of the past where you had indentured serfs.

My dad said that when he was young you could get a job with the SEC or even like the Post office, you would have enough to buy a house, boat, new car and support a family on a single income. In the US now the middle class have to have 2 adults working full time and one doing two jobs to have the same life style they had 15 years ago with out the same workload. If someone gets sick it costs all their assets and savings to get treatment for things like cancer.

People are going to get more and more dissatisfied by that life and demand more. Even if it's not generational the power structures need to be changed so that something more equitable to more people is brought in. Corporations have infiltrated governments and wealthy individuals have the system stacked towards them increasing their wealth.

Unfortunately the single income/dual income housing thing was kind of self inflicted.
Unfortunately confirming my age to St-Trav, nearly every family had a single parent working and one looking after the house and kids.

Then they had "Yuppies" , they waited until later in life to have kids, and if both had a reasonably good profession they found that they could pool their incomes and buy a much much better place than they could have with a single income.
They liked going to Auctions and pushing the price up.
More and more people followed suite, pushing prices up until you pretty much couldn't afford anything without the dual income.
The housing prices continued up and up over a long time , also fuelled by a few other factors.

Ultimately housing is a total supply/demand model, and to buy a house now is a struggle with two incomes.

Other factors are obviously the foreign investment, but also Australia's tendency to over centralise.
Nearly all of our jobs and therefore population are clustered in major city's.
Nothing at all like the USA or Europe.

 

[StCicatriz]

Unfortunately the single income/dual income housing thing was kind of self inflicted.
Unfortunately confirming my age to St-Trav, nearly every family had a single parent working and one looking after the house and kids.

Then they had "Yuppies" , they waited until later in life to have kids, and if both had a reasonably good profession they found that they could pool their incomes and buy a much much better place than they could have with a single income.
They liked going to Auctions and pushing the price up.
More and more people followed suite, pushing prices up until you pretty much couldn't afford anything without the dual income.
The housing prices continued up and up over a long time , also fuelled by a few other factors.

Ultimately housing is a total supply/demand model, and to buy a house now is a struggle with two incomes.

Other factors are obviously the foreign investment, but also Australia's tendency to over centralise.
Nearly all of our jobs and therefore population are clustered in major city's.
Nothing at all like the USA or Europe.

its interesting most places where the housing market is incredibly hard to get into don't have the incentives we have given people. for example negative gearing shouldnt even be on the card anymore. then you have things like the rental vacancy tax.

 

[MUFKilda]

Yeah, I'm going out to burn tyres right now, I'm only a few kms from the beach, a few more melted polar caps and we're beachfront.

Beach front is nice; house under water, not so much.

Of course, with so many Australians living on the coast, rising sea levels will have an especially serious impact. You should all be looking to move to Alice Springs.

 

[StCicatriz]

one thing i don't like about the current policy debate or even just social discussion is how US vs THEM the discussion is. it's dividing people. be it the boomers vs gen y/x/millenials or right vs left or conservatives vs progressives or rich vs poor.

we are so quick to demonise people that our circumstances differ to or who we can't relate too

i wish we could get back to some sensible mature debate where there's some give and take. accepting that there has to be compromise.

for example i'm in my 30s. home ownership is a battle right now, but i'm not about to side with politicians who want to raid the savings of boomers to help float a bunch of policy and i'm not about massive wide reaching change to force down housing prices dramatically.

i think the boomers and the elderly deserve to retire in comfort and be able to enjoy the spoils from saving hard. i do think they need tax payers support. they shouldn't be seen as this giant bucket of super cash they can be raided for. but at the same time i don't think they should be able to load up investment properties at the expense of those entering the market.

i just wish we could get back to some give and take. looking at the bigger picture.

 

[gringo2011]

its interesting most places where the housing market is incredibly hard to get into don't have the incentives we have given people. for example negative gearing shouldnt even be on the card anymore. then you have things like the rental vacancy tax.

It's a world wide phenomena with commodification of real estate near universal. The others got a bite on the arse from the GFC and a bit of readjustment. I remember last year the UN did a report suggesting housing should be a human right and blamed a lot of it on real estate as investment. I can't be bothered looking for articles but found this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/28/luxury-real-estate-housing-crisis-un-homelessness

 

[StCicatriz]

It's a world wide phenomena with commodification of real estate near universal. The others got a bite on the arse from the GFC and a bit of readjustment. I remember last year the UN did a report suggesting housing should be a human right and blamed a lot of it on real estate as investment. I can't be bothered looking for articles but found this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/28/luxury-real-estate-housing-crisis-un-homelessness

they need to start taxing people who sit on land or property with no one living in it or on it

you can have it but if its not being used you're gonna pay for it

 

[Yawkey way]

It’s a million little things and a few big ones but yes the world has sure changed since I was a kid, some things are absolutely fanatastic and others make you want to scream.

I could list so many things that have changed and quite a few things that seemed pivotal to change here. It’s funny in a material sense we seem to have so much, hell we have things that weren’t even though of and sit around watching bid screen tv on cable, medicine has gone ahead in leaps and bounds. It seems a joke to complain but it’s a funny thing I was just as happy without most of the s**t I have but as most people know you don’t get nostalgic for the old days because of material things, it’s for people who are gone and your youth.

I would say on balance we were all generally must better off up until the point at which housing for the average joe and young working people became nothing but a dream. I have little sympathy for people who expect their first house to be in a trendy suburb with 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms but if your working and saving you should be able to afford housing.

Some big changes have been the rise of multinationals and the concept of globalisation. The slow demise of religion in peoples lives here in Australia. The builders labourers and the union movement turning our wage system on its head, qualified white collar workers went from doing it well to earning less than an unskilled labourer on a building site. The changes to the family law act in 1975 were huge. Selling of all our assets like the sec etc was a real turning point and imo a terrible thing for the people of this state. There’s many more and some of them were great like Medicare and access for most to a university education.

By the way gringo I’ve been flooded once and didn’t enjoy it, my wife and I have agreed that if it happens again we’re moving. It’s not loosing a bit of furniture it’s the hassle of the clean up and replacing things but more than anything it’s the stress of worrying about every BOM storm or flood warning. Plenty of houses here have flooded in the past but I think it was the first time this house had, they now tell us it was a once in a 1,000 year event but I don’t believe that at all. If I do move it’s going to be to somewhere 50m or more above sea level, sandy bay saints has a nice ring to it.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

one thing i don't like about the current policy debate or even just social discussion is how US vs THEM the discussion is. it's dividing people. be it the boomers vs gen y/x/millenials or right vs left or conservatives vs progressives or rich vs poor.

we are so quick to demonise people that our circumstances differ to or who we can't relate too

i wish we could get back to some sensible mature debate where there's some give and take. accepting that there has to be compromise.

for example i'm in my 30s. home ownership is a battle right now, but i'm not about to side with politicians who want to raid the savings of boomers to help float a bunch of policy and i'm not about massive wide reaching change to force down housing prices dramatically.

i think the boomers and the elderly deserve to retire in comfort and be able to enjoy the spoils from saving hard. i do think they need tax payers support. they shouldn't be seen as this giant bucket of super cash they can be raided for. but at the same time i don't think they should be able to load up investment properties at the expense of those entering the market.

i just wish we could get back to some give and take. looking at the bigger picture.

thats exactly what i want ... by no means would i begrudge a person who worked hard all their life the opportunity to retire in comfort and for the vast majority of boomers this is all they want... its the smaller percentage of greed filled boomers who are the ones how irk me, theres a girl that i know who is renting of one of these greedy bastards ... this bloke who happens to have quiet a vast portfolio of investments the guy is worth millions, he is semi retired and is very much exceeding the comfortable stage ... he has informed this girl that next month when the lease is up she is going to have to vacate that property cause it needs to be vacant for "tax reasons" ... now that to me is pure greed if you are that well off why do you need to do dodgy stuff to avoid tax ...
the system is set up to allow the very well off to exploit these loop holes and in the end who cops it who pays for it .. everyone else ....

 

[Yawkey way]

thats exactly what i want ... by no means would i begrudge a person who worked hard all their life the opportunity to retire in comfort and for the vast majority of boomers this is all they want... its the smaller percentage of greed filled boomers who are the ones how irk me, theres a girl that i know who is renting of one of these greedy bastards ... this bloke who happens to have quiet a vast portfolio of investments the guy is worth millions, he is semi retired and is very much exceeding the comfortable stage ... he has informed this girl that next month when the lease is up she is going to have to vacate that property cause it needs to be vacant for "tax reasons" ... now that to me is pure greed if you are that well off why do you need to do dodgy stuff to avoid tax ...
the system is set up to allow the very well off to exploit these loop holes and in the end who cops it who pays for it .. everyone else ....

There’s plenty of young people doing that as well trav hardly a week goes by without someone spruiking how they have 30 houses and they will retire at 40.

I like that the labor party intend to do away with negative gearing, it will be grandfathered but I’m ok with that. Greed used to be a bad thing, I hear the Swedes have a term that there is no word in English for I believe it means an adequate sufficiency maybe narkles can tell us.

 

[bergholt]

this and if we do have them, they're quickly acquired and rolled up into a bigger entity

but it isnt an issue unique to australia, its an overall problem with tech companies at the moment. the game plan is you get big enough to get acquired by a bigger company and cash in. the tech companies are deliberately acquiring everything and anything to be these super entities.

Yeah, but that hasn't even happened much in Australia. Aconex getting acquired by Oracle was the only big one in recent memory. Maybe RetailMeNot and Hitwise, but that was a long time ago.

 

[gringo2011]

thats exactly what i want ... by no means would i begrudge a person who worked hard all their life the opportunity to retire in comfort and for the vast majority of boomers this is all they want... its the smaller percentage of greed filled boomers who are the ones how irk me, theres a girl that i know who is renting of one of these greedy bastards ... this bloke who happens to have quiet a vast portfolio of investments the guy is worth millions, he is semi retired and is very much exceeding the comfortable stage ... he has informed this girl that next month when the lease is up she is going to have to vacate that property cause it needs to be vacant for "tax reasons" ... now that to me is pure greed if you are that well off why do you need to do dodgy stuff to avoid tax ...
the system is set up to allow the very well off to exploit these loop holes and in the end who cops it who pays for it .. everyone else ....

My father in law has done really well from property and once you have equity in property on a mass scale you are incentivised to buy more and more so that you are always negatively geared. The money from the other properties keeps paying down loans and not having tenants just comes off your tax. It's a crazy system.

I have chosen not to invest in property because I'd be a hypocrite to whinge and then profit from it. I have enough and don't want more than I need. I'd rather have a life that is low stress and spend it with my family. My father in law is loaded but he's a miserable old bastard that doesn't enjoy life. Everything he thinks about is money related. It's like a disorder for him. Most of his properties are commercial but it's the same system where you get the tax payers to pay your loans for you.

 

[StCicatriz]

thats exactly what i want ... by no means would i begrudge a person who worked hard all their life the opportunity to retire in comfort and for the vast majority of boomers this is all they want... its the smaller percentage of greed filled boomers who are the ones how irk me, theres a girl that i know who is renting of one of these greedy bastards ... this bloke who happens to have quiet a vast portfolio of investments the guy is worth millions, he is semi retired and is very much exceeding the comfortable stage ... he has informed this girl that next month when the lease is up she is going to have to vacate that property cause it needs to be vacant for "tax reasons" ... now that to me is pure greed if you are that well off why do you need to do dodgy stuff to avoid tax ...
the system is set up to allow the very well off to exploit these loop holes and in the end who cops it who pays for it .. everyone else ....

that's horrible

sadly i dont think its generational either. there'd be people in the 30s and 40s doing the same. along with a bunch of overseas investors and private companies.

 

[StCicatriz]

Yeah, but that hasn't even happened much in Australia. Aconex getting acquired by Oracle was the only big one in recent memory. Maybe RetailMeNot and Hitwise, but that was a long time ago.

happened to me twice

might not be a well known name, but you're talking an acquisition north of a billion.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Beach front is nice; house under water, not so much.

Of course, with so many Australians living on the coast, rising sea levels will have an especially serious impact. You should all be looking to move to Alice Springs.

http://flood.firetree.net/

Lucky the Saints got out of Seaford.

 

[Yawkey way]

My father in law has done really well from property and once you have equity in property on a mass scale you are incentivised to buy more and more so that you are always negatively geared. The money from the other properties keeps paying down loans and not having tenants just comes off your tax. It's a crazy system.

I have chosen not to invest in property because I'd be a hypocrite to whinge and then profit from it. I have enough and don't want more than I need. I'd rather have a life that is low stress and spend it with my family. My father in law is loaded but he's a miserable old bastard that doesn't enjoy life. Everything he thinks about is money related. It's like a disorder for him. Most of his properties are commercial but it's the same system where you get the tax payers to pay your loans for you.

That’s ok it’s like the tax system in general you pay what you have to.

This all comes down to poor policy, at some point a decision was made to stop investing as much in public housing and to let the private market pick up the slack. Payments to welfare recipients were increased in the belief that they would find private rentals. Then negative gearing and other rules were changed and all of a sudden you have a gold rush where everybody joins in.

It’s funny I can remember when property was seen as just another investment and at times not a great one. A lot of migrants seem to have had a deep attachment to buying property and have done very well as a consequence over the years. I have met the most unlikely people over the years who owned blocks of flats and property all over the place, they got in when things were dirt cheap and some very expensive suburbs were undesirable.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

There’s plenty of young people doing that as well trav hardly a week goes by without someone spruiking how they have 30 houses and they will retire at 40.

I like that the labor party intend to do away with negative gearing, it will be grandfathered but I’m ok with that. Greed used to be a bad thing, I hear the Swedes have a term that there is no word in English for I believe it means an adequate sufficiency maybe narkles can tell us.

yes you are right there are certainly younger people doing this and to that point i have a dislike for them as well

 

[SaintsSeptember]

My issue in getting rid of negative gearing, is that , it really isn't giving any benefit that every business doesn't already have.
So it just takes one more possible way for an individual to make wealth away from them.
The next step would be that there are no wealthy people investing in property, but instead there are business consortium's.

 

[bergholt]

happened to me twice

might not be a well known name, but you're talking an acquisition north of a billion.

Interesting, who was that? I guess DM me if you don't want to discuss publicly.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

There’s plenty of young people doing that as well trav hardly a week goes by without someone spruiking how they have 30 houses and they will retire at 40.

I like that the labor party intend to do away with negative gearing, it will be grandfathered but I’m ok with that. Greed used to be a bad thing, I hear the Swedes have a term that there is no word in English for I believe it means an adequate sufficiency maybe narkles can tell us.

It's a word called "lagom"... it pretty much runs the whole society and is very much based around a consensus culture and not trying to have too much... looking for balance. Business has to listen to unions, no one, including CEOs work beyond the 9-5. Parents are given a lot of parental leave.... They get a lot right here. The consensus culture can get annoying with the endless meetings and compromise but overall it is a good thing.

It's a pretty good place to live, you still have wealthy people but there are so many tech start-ups here, it's pretty nuts considering the population size. You hear a lot about it being "socialist" but it doesn't feel like it. Personal tax is high (corporate is low) but you don't have expenses like education and health... I certainly feel like I take home more in my pocket every month than I did in Australia

A little story about Spotify that has happened since I came here. Spotify was just this small thing that people in their 20s and 30s would share around Stockholm 10 years ago. You needed an invite to use it and then you'd make playlists and what was good is you'd use those playlists at parties where others had Spotify. It got very popular in the city and an invite was hard to get so there was buzz around it. Then they started charging for it, then spread around the world and have become the youtube of music streaming. It was a very smart way of setting things up and just an example of the way they try and conquer the world as often as possible (and often succeed).

The key to Sweden is the skilled workforce in tech. Education is free in Sweden and the winters are long cold and dark. Kids grow up with coding in their blood. My sister was recently over visiting with her teenagers and we talked a lot about Australia and the future. I for one am very worried about it. I feel like with the internet being so badly dealt with, it will hamstring the country greatly. I also feel like Australia needs an education revolution to get up-to-date with countries like Sweden and to be able to compete with the giant countries that churn out so many tech wokers.

In the economy of the future, your citizens will need certain skills. Having the best schools and universities still being as expensive as they are in Australia isn't sustainable long-term. It maybe in countries with huge populations, but I really believe in the future, the idea that anyone will need to pay to be well educated will rightly have died... Opening up education will be the key to a prosperous economy in the future world as you will need as many bright minds as possible from all walks of life contributing. Tech innovation will be the backbone of many countries. Yes Australia has natural resources but this has made us complacent unfortunately and, unlike countries like Norway that tax their natural resources and have made all of their citizens millionaires, when Rudd tried to put a (rather weak it has to be said) mining tax on our industry that was booming, he wasn't allowed. That could have financed all sorts of things that would have put us in a great place but it was shut down.

Sadly, I see Australia as being one of the more under-prepared countries for the next stage of the world where tech is king, both infrastructure-wise and education-wise. And we are saddled with politicians that sadly either don't know the seriousness of the situation we find ourselves in, don't care, would find it impossible to work with their opposites ideologically to find the best outcome for the country or all of the above.