Discussion Random Discussion

[SaintsSeptember]

It's going to happen it's just a matter of when. We should have been increasing the renewable component already but lack of policy direction has held us back. The complaining about others not doing anything is false unless you use the US as an example, they are rogue nation as far as climate policy goes and it's more to do with the proliferation of wealthy power companies that are owner there.

We are in a position where we built really expensive coal fired generators from the public purse in the mid 20th century, past politicians sold our assets and we bought our electricity that was supplied at near cost back for much much more from the new owners. Now the old generators are past their use by date we haven't got companies lining up to build new ones.

We should have spent 10 years building up much more renewable capacity but governments didn't allow industry to know what was happening so very little did beside some government funded projects and a few like AGL who saw it as cheaper to invest in some for tax breaks than renew the CFPSs.

Now we have the worst situation where the renewables aren't there, we have a deficit because we have more and more people wanting power, houses are getting more consumptive with technology and there is no direction still because it's a political issue that is divisive but popular with certain swinging voters.

Coal fired stations are being phased out al over the world as the cost of wind and solar drops. The base load is an issue still but not doing anything is like burying your head and hoping when you pull it up things will have improved.

It really shouldn't be a political issue, we need government investment in something and the rest of the world aren't building coal generators. We burnt most of our black coal in Victoria and burn brown coal mostly now and once that goes expensive coal seam gas or natural gas need to be used which coasts money.

We sell all our liquid natural gas and are soon going to be the worlds biggest supplier but don't save it for ourselves and take hardly any royalties for it. It's easy to make policy that reserves that gas for our own needs before any gets sold.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html
Fact is we hardly ever build any power stations ,because we are really small.
The CO2 per capita is due to the spread out low population of Australia.
Places like germany had less co2 per capita way before they were investing in renewables .

 

[Yawkey way]

With countries like China producing so much crap for the world market and having taken on manufacturing for everyone else, they need a bit more of a break in targets and also coming from a third world economy means they are trying to met targets that western countries already have a head start on. They need to allow developing countries a bit of slack so they take up renewables I guess.

Hepburn is a way of showing that small scale power generation is possible was my point. We always think of scale and centralised power generation like we have with coal but it doesn't have to be. I heard they are saying with micro craft they think they will be able to send tiny microchips into Alpha- Centauri for very little money and at a huge speed and low cost. We always think you have todo things a certain way because they always were but sometimes there are others ways.


It is one of those things with technology, the longer you wait the cheaper it gets but at he moment just changing policy so business and enterprise have certainty would be a start. I had a friend who worked for a wind turbine company that left Australia because they gave up through lack of policy direction and certainty.

I was speaking to a fried who works for an Australian science body last night. He was saying the government demanded his department make money through commercial arrangements, they have a cap on hiring new public servant staff so can't build any more capacity. They hire outside the department high priced consultants and management staff to generate business they don't have capacity to handle. It sounds like some comedic farce. They are then punished for failing to increase but cutting funding.

Yeah this is the argument that the US has just said no thanks too and I don’t blame them, it delivers a trade advantage and imposes billions in funding obligations.

It’s a tuff sell when as mentioned you have a massive military build up together with cash to burn buying influence with the belt and road routine. I recommend they spend more on their starving but that’s unlikely and they have plenty of company in that respect. Seriously the arguments used to come up with that scheme only make sense when you frame them to meet a desired outcome. Take a quick check on the age site to see how china are playing the UN, it’s a very interesting read although hardly surprising.

At any rate if you have Netflix take a look at a doco on power storage and battery tech, I think it’s called search for the super battery.

Haha yeah under this government the use of costly consultants has exploded while they cut staff, what’s going on in some departments is scandalous.

My internet is playing up lately so I’m reading when I can and keeping the posts to a minimum.

 

[Yawkey way]

An aluminium Smelter would run for 6 minutes on the huge battery that Elron is installing in South Australia.

Monorail, the guys a snake oil salesman imo.

 

[VDS66]

Im assuming you are over 50.
View attachment 583563

The argument that we shouldn't work towards wind/solar and away from coal because china and india aren't is childish.
"Well he's doing it!"
Does that make it right?
Would you jump of a cliff?

And yet China and Europe are rapidly moving towards full renewable. Go figure...

 

[MUFKilda]

According to the U.N, we have until 2030 to get to grips with climate change, before it's too late. The arguments and finger pointing are of no use when the clock is ticking. We are now reaching the point of no return, as an American administration races to the edge of the abyss and denies there is even a problem. It isn't melodramatic to say our survival as a species, in addition to the survival of countless other species, is now in jeopardy. it's terrifying to think many of us may see ecological disaster in our own lifetimes.

 

[VDS66]

If you drive on roads, you pay your rego.

If you pollute the planet you pay to clean it up. Regardless of how big your mess is.

If you drop a Mars bar wrapper, you picking up. It won't clean up the entire play ground, but it's your mess so clean it up.

If the loony right, bankrolled by the fossil fuel industry didn't **** is around for 10 years, renewables would be so much cheaper by now.

Regardless of your view on climate change, we need to move to renewables if we want to increase productivity and living standards.

The input costs of oil are ridiculous. Every step of the production chain... From the ground to your home requires the input of oil. Whos price is controlled by a virtual cartel.

We are being held to ransom by energy companies and the sooner we cut our reliance on them, the better off we will all be.

If we act alone, then fair enough. We won't make a difference. However, the rest of the world is shifting to renewable, which if free once the infrastructure is in place.

It's bad enough that we cannot compete with countries that employ cheap labour like China.

But how ****ed will we be when these countries have the advantage of both cheap labour AND cheap renewable energy?

 

[bergholt]

Renewables double the capital cost.

No idea if that's true. But capital costs don't necessarily pass directly through into retail cost. You have to take running costs into account as well. Clearly it's cheaper to run a solar panel or wind turbine with battery - which require no ongoing costly resources as input - than to run a coal power plant on constant inputs of variably priced coal.

Given this, if the government was to subsidise the construction of a bunch of renewables then it should only make power cheaper.

 

[bergholt]

It's bad enough that we cannot compete with countries that employ cheap labour like China.

But how ****** will we be when these countries have the advantage of both cheap labour AND cheap renewable energy?

I don't think that really applies. If cheap renewable energy is available in China then it'll be available here, and we don't need to build as much as them to cover our population/industry. The tech isn't going to stay in one place.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

And yet China and Europe are rapidly moving towards full renewable. Go figure...

Full Renewable... I don't necessarily agree with your statement, there seems to be new Coal Stations being built.
China are still producing a quarter of the worlds CO2 emissions.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't think that really applies. If cheap renewable energy is available in China then it'll be available here, and we don't need to build as much as them to cover our population/industry. The tech isn't going to stay in one place.

It depends on what technology evolves.
Rooftop panels and the like are a good match for Australia, and our population , which is spread way too thinly outside the Metro area's. In fact i think rooftop panels make far more sense than PV solar farms. Thermal Solar stations ( with or without molten salt storage ) seem to be still largely considered experimental. ( Spain seems to be doing well in the technology of it ).
Electricity Is not like telecommunications where distance is only a small barrier.

No idea if that's true. But capital costs don't necessarily pass directly through into retail cost. You have to take running costs into account as well. Clearly it's cheaper to run a solar panel or wind turbine with battery - which require no ongoing costly resources as input - than to run a coal power plant on constant inputs of variably priced coal.

Given this, if the government was to subsidise the construction of a bunch of renewables then it should only make power cheaper.

They haven't even forced the construction of the more efficient gas stations.
I can't see how anything but a massive carbon tax could be effective and i'd prefer us not to go down that route.
To me it makes more sense to legislate the types of Power Station permitted.
Just as a new house needs to meet certain criteria when its built ( in a variety of different area's ), why not simply legislate that any power station built for the purpose of energy retail , must meet certain performance criteria. Its not like we build so many of the suckers that we can't afford to pay a bit of individual attention to them.

When electricity was privatised in Victoria it was known that when they'd done it in the California, private industry had gone for cheaper Gas Turbines, rather than more expensive but more efficient base load stations. This resulted over time in power prices in California going through the roof.
Knowing this information, we then proceeded to follow suit.


Now i hope that you environmental do-gooder's aren't taking your family overseas on vacation, burning all that aircraft fuel just to lie in the sun on a different beach. The Bogan who drives his family to Lakes Entrance with the Caravan behind his V8 Commodore is beating you in the green holiday stakes.

 

[VDS66]

I don't think that really applies. If cheap renewable energy is available in China then it'll be available here, and we don't need to build as much as them to cover our population/industry. The tech isn't going to stay in one place.

There will be a massive move towards renewable world wide. The problem is that China will be at least 10 years ahead of us.

 

[Yawkey way]

According to the U.N, we have until 2030 to get to grips with climate change, before it's too late. The arguments and finger pointing are of no use when the clock is ticking. We are now reaching the point of no return, as an American administration races to the edge of the abyss and denies there is even a problem. It isn't melodramatic to say our survival as a species, in addition to the survival of countless other species, is now in jeopardy. it's terrifying to think many of us may see ecological disaster in our own lifetimes.

Don’t start anything with according to the UN talk about corruption.

I’m not that worried Tony Abbott said it was all crap anyway and I absolutely love the water, it will be just like waterworld.

 

[VDS66]

Full Renewable... I don't necessarily agree with your statement, there seems to be new Coal Stations being built.
China are still producing a quarter of the worlds CO2 emissions.

Do your research, instead of parroting Alan Jones.

 

[VDS66]

Don’t start anything with according to the UN talk about corruption.

I’m not that worried Tony Abbott said it was all crap anyway and I absolutely love the water, it will be just like waterworld.

That's a pretty dumb answer right there.

We have now reached a tipping point in terms of disruption to natural water and weather cycles.

Hence why we are seeing more extreme droughts and floods.

Seriously, I thought you were more intelligent than that.

 

[Yawkey way]

That's a pretty dumb answer right there.

We have now reached a tipping point in terms of disruption to natural water and weather cycles.

Hence why we are seeing more extreme droughts and floods.

Seriously, I thought you were more intelligent than that.

That new avatar of yours is appropriate I’ve caught flathead without bait before.

It was a joke of course it’s a serious issue although just how much our weather has changed and tipping points etc are still the subject of quite a lot of debate.

Personally I’d rather act now rather than take the risk, the great debate is what exactly does that action look like. If it’s an existential risk to our way of life here where we have several real options and a continent to play with imagine the task some countries face. I know it’s remote but those massive tidal falls in the northwest really interest me, that’s a massive amount of energy right there if it can be harnessed and it’s guaranteed. The tide comes in and goes out twice everyday unlike the wind and solar it can be relied on, maybe some nation building project like the snowy.

I would be quite radical if I had power, just for starters you could forget the multiple car routine and everything would need to be built to the highest standards with emissions in mind. I would also be spending all that money that’s going on new roads on public transport.

I wasn’t joking about the UN though you can’t trust them at all.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah this is the argument that the US has just said no thanks too and I don’t blame them, it delivers a trade advantage and imposes billions in funding obligations.

It’s a tuff sell when as mentioned you have a massive military build up together with cash to burn buying influence with the belt and road routine. I recommend they spend more on their starving but that’s unlikely and they have plenty of company in that respect. Seriously the arguments used to come up with that scheme only make sense when you frame them to meet a desired outcome. Take a quick check on the age site to see how china are playing the UN, it’s a very interesting read although hardly surprising.

At any rate if you have Netflix take a look at a doco on power storage and battery tech, I think it’s called search for the super battery.

Haha yeah under this government the use of costly consultants has exploded while they cut staff, what’s going on in some departments is scandalous.

My internet is playing up lately so I’m reading when I can and keeping the posts to a minimum.

Yeah our internet is running super slow. I called our provider and they are sending someone out but on the speed calculator it's graded as very slow. Internet in Australia is an embarrassment.

On renewables, the Chinese look like they are happy to sell off old technology to poor countries which is pretty shitty. Someone has to do something though or they won't have anything to do once the environments shits it's self. Yo can't control others but you can lead by example.

 

[gringo2011]

That new avatar of yours is appropriate I’ve caught flathead without bait before.

It was a joke of course it’s a serious issue although just how much our weather has changed and tipping points etc are still the subject of quite a lot of debate.

Personally I’d rather act now rather than take the risk, the great debate is what exactly does that action look like. If it’s an existential risk to our way of life here where we have several real options and a continent to play with imagine the task some countries face. I know it’s remote but those massive tidal falls in the northwest really interest me, that’s a massive amount of energy right there if it can be harnessed and it’s guaranteed. The tide comes in and goes out twice everyday unlike the wind and solar it can be relied on, maybe some nation building project like the snowy.

I would be quite radical if I had power, just for starters you could forget the multiple car routine and everything would need to be built to the highest standards with emissions in mind. I would also be spending all that money that’s going on new roads on public transport.

I wasn’t joking about the UN though you can’t trust them at all.

The scientist I mentioned before that we had over on Saturday night works in weather. He's French and a world expert in his specialised field (not climate science) who was here on a joint project paid for by France and Australia. He's now a naturalised Aussie and I have known him for 10 plus years. When I first met him he would say he couldn't form an opinion on climate change because he said to do so without comparative data wouldn't be scientific. He's since for his own interest spent a long time assessing the data and says that climate change is undeniably man made. He's not a greeny left wing conspiracy nut and not paid to have or give opinions. He's someone I trust to have a non biased opinion and he's gone as far as to say the scientists that are in the denial camp are deliberately muddying the water for profit or agenda pushing.

 

[Yawkey way]

The scientist I mentioned before that we had over on Saturday night works in weather. He's French and a world expert in his specialised field (not climate science) who was here on a joint project paid for by France and Australia. He's now a naturalised Aussie and I have known him for 10 plus years. When I first met him he would say he couldn't form an opinion on climate change because he said to do so without comparative data wouldn't be scientific. He's since for his own interest spent a long time assessing the data and says that climate change is undeniably man made. He's not a greeny left wing conspiracy nut and not paid to have or give opinions. He's someone I trust to have a non biased opinion and he's gone as far as to say the scientists that are in the denial camp are deliberately muddying the water for profit or agenda pushing.

You get good people on both sides of the debate, what is undeniable is we are contributing to climate change.

My eldest has a minor in atmospheric science and it’s something we have talked about for years, his professors at the time were surprisingly not as definitive although that has probably changed. It’s also all jokes aside not really fair to characterise the government as doing nothing. They have stumped up for a lot of research including studies into tide/wave being conducted. It’s fair to say they could do more but I think a lot of people are pissed off that they don’t have any certainty and that has hurt investment etc.

I think cutting funding to the CSIRO amongst other things was inexplicable and I’d be happier if we had some clear leadership on the subject but politics seems to take precedence. I’m pretty open minded on the subject as I think most people are, when all is said and sifted people just want a way to fix things, it’s our arses and more importantly our kids futures at stake.

I would be much happier if we saw more about the science and the projects that are being tested and showing great results rather than the continual we’ve reached a tipping point and you’re all going to die pay up now and salvation is yours routine that some are running.

PS. Years ago I worked with a guy who applied to a government appointment as an administrator on a very low lying island. We have had some strange relationships with some smaller countries even at state level in the past and amazingly i have known people who worked on several of them from Christmas Island and the keelings to Tuvalu. This guy used to joke about the tide coming in and the island breathing and the highest point being a couple of feet above water decades ago, now I hear that same story and it’s global warming and yep we must pay. I do think we have an obligation to take in our near neighbours if they are under real threat and it’s measurable but obviously it wasn’t going to take much to make the place unliveable.

 

[Yawkey way]

Yeah our internet is running super slow. I called our provider and they are sending someone out but on the speed calculator it's graded as very slow. Internet in Australia is an embarrassment.

On renewables, the Chinese look like they are happy to sell off old technology to poor countries which is pretty shitty. Someone has to do something though or they won't have anything to do once the environments shits it's self. Yo can't control others but you can lead by example.

It’s so frustrating ringing Telstra is a total waste of time.

I call and get the Phillipines where the call centre can’t tell me if there are any reported problems in the area and ask me to log on to check. Hello my internet is out how do you suggest I do that, oh ok I’ll book a technician. No don’t do that I know it’s not me even my phone data is out can you just check to see if you’re working in the area, no sorry I can’t. Ok can you just give me an Australian number or the local techs, no they won’t be able to help you, ok just give me a number I’ll take my chances. This is where they now try to give you the number you just called, if it wasn’t me I would lmao.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There will be a massive move towards renewable world wide. The problem is that China will be at least 10 years ahead of us.

So they should be , they produce a quarter of the worlds CO2.
I'm happy for them to get a big badge with "winner" on it if they are ten years in front of us, because they have a chance of saving the planet. We have no such opportunity with our puny 1%.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Do your research, instead of parroting Alan Jones.

I have no idea what Alan Jones has said on the topic.
I've seen information that suggests that they are building Coal Stations in China , just less of them.

https://qz.com/1235125/the-number-of-coal-plants-worldwide-is-shrinking-but-nowhere-near-enough/
Based on a report by Greenpeace none the less.

Maybe you've been reading the Chinese Government propaganda... oh dear , did you really fall for it? They aren't really more reliable than Alan Jones.


This is the current situation.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapie...ioxide-emissions-set-new-record/#2b94608843a9
https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

So tell me Mr researcher, when will China be "Total " nonrenewables.

If we switched off all the power in Australia tomorrow, we would be miserable, and the global CO2 emissions would still go up.

Working it out per capita is a total waste of time, because big emitters like Luxembourg don't make a difference. to the GLOBAL output.
If you want to feel relevant and piss on the bushfire play with your own power and money. Oh and skip that overseas holiday and stop buying crap you throw away two years later.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

So they should be , they produce a quarter of the worlds CO2.
I'm happy for them to get a big badge with "winner" on it if they are ten years in front of us, because they have a chance of saving the planet. We have no such opportunity with our puny 1%.

thats very small minded thinking ... just because we are small and dont push out as much pollution we cant be part of the solution???
its thought process like this that will be the nail in the coffin of Australian innovation .. the solution may very well be in the mind of a kid in primary school right now here in Australia but they may never come to that soloution is we dont do anything just because we only make up 1% of the problem..
Australia would make up only a small % of the worlds cancer sufferers does that mean we do nothing to find a cure ?
the fact is we all share this earth so while our contribution may be smaller its still an improve on doing nothing .. the argument of driving up the cost of power irks me its basically saying your willing to sell out future generations for the sake of saving some extra dollars on your bills today, super narrow minded and self absorbed thinking ... and lets face it with the so called cheaper option we are still paying more than ever each year for power except the more we are paying now is lining the pockets of the coal companies where it could be spent solving the issue of global warming for the future generations ...
they call the millenials self absorbed and disrespectful but its the boomer generation thats in power holding back finding the solution not our issues for their own greed at the expense of the millenials and their children and their childrens childrens future ...

 

[gringo2011]

It’s so frustrating ringing Telstra is a total waste of time.

I call and get the Phillipines where the call centre can’t tell me if there are any reported problems in the area and ask me to log on to check. Hello my internet is out how do you suggest I do that, oh ok I’ll book a technician. No don’t do that I know it’s not me even my phone data is out can you just check to see if you’re working in the area, no sorry I can’t. Ok can you just give me an Australian number or the local techs, no they won’t be able to help you, ok just give me a number I’ll take my chances. This is where they now try to give you the number you just called, if it wasn’t me I would lmao.

We have been promised to have it looked at by the 21st. We are with iPrimus though.

A few months ago we changed my sons phone over from another carrier to Optus though because we are all on Optus and would make one family bill for everyone. They cut his old number off and couldn't port the number but kept saying that it would be on in 24 hours. We were off overseas so went in store where a staff member said they aren't very good at porting numbers so he suggested we get him a new SIM with a new number and cancel the old one. He said he couldn't guarantee they could manage it with in 3 days.

They stuffed up and kept two numbers. I complained to the ombudsman and they turned-on his old number 2 months later and have started billing us for it. several in store visits and endless hours on the phone and internet and they have demanded $160 to cancel his old contract that never got connected. We tried his old sim and it doesn't work any way. They are unbelievably shit at customer service too, never call back after promising to, rude and incompetent. It's like some kind of farcical comedy dealing with them. The last guy we dealt with in store said it would be fixed that day, we called him today and he said we had to pay them $160 before he'll do anything. So painful it's almost funny. I hope they take me to court over the unpaid non existent number just so I can complain to someone about how bad they are.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

thats very small minded thinking ... just because we are small and dont push out as much pollution we cant be part of the solution???
its thought process like this that will be the nail in the coffin of Australian innovation .. the solution may very well be in the mind of a kid in primary school right now here in Australia but they may never come to that soloution is we dont do anything just because we only make up 1% of the problem..
Australia would make up only a small % of the worlds cancer sufferers does that mean we do nothing to find a cure ?
the fact is we all share this earth so while our contribution may be smaller its still an improve on doing nothing .. the argument of driving up the cost of power irks me its basically saying your willing to sell out future generations for the sake of saving some extra dollars on your bills today, super narrow minded and self absorbed thinking ... and lets face it with the so called cheaper option we are still paying more than ever each year for power except the more we are paying now is lining the pockets of the coal companies where it could be spent solving the issue of global warming for the future generations ...
they call the millenials self absorbed and disrespectful but its the boomer generation thats in power holding back finding the solution not our issues for their own greed at the expense of the millenials and their children and their childrens childrens future ...

No i'm not selling the future.
You want to charge at windmills.
Which organisations are going to train our children to develop solutions?
Schools don't drive this stuff, big organisations with R@D do.
None of them are in Australia.

When we have technology at universities or organisations we sell it.
We are are good at medicine... and um... making coffee.
Neither of these skills is useful for preventing global warming.
I'm sorry but being realistic about our capabilities is not selling our future.
You can't save 1 % of the planet. We need the people who have the power to do it. Places like Nauru and Fiji also don't have the power to do it. We need the USA and China to fix it. Once they develop good stuff, we can buy it off them, like we do with Aeroplanes and computers and software and other things that use technology. The whole we is Australia and we is smart cos we invented the lawnmower thinking is totally flawed. We have next to no technology companies, and when the government give out grants, companies scam the money.

Now read slowly.

IF WE STOP PRODUCING ANY CO2 AT ALL THE GLOBAL EMMISSIONS WILL INCREASE.

BECAUSE THEY ARE GLOBAL.

I have no interest in doing somersaults because people like you want to feel good about doing something. Its a placebo you want to give yourself.

 

[CursingFijian]

I think climate change is undeniable, irregardless of causation. And most of us are aware of and accept what scientists are touting as the increasing consequences of climate change; changing precipitation patterns, longer periods of frost free weather, more intense weather events, loss of polar ice, higher average global temperatures, seasonal shift, etc.

I think most of us deep down though believe that human kind will have the ability to adjust through technological innovation and the resilience that homo sapiens are renowned for. Nobody can accurately forecast though what the economic and geopolitical consequences will be, and what effect that is likely to have on a global scale. Extended droughts and heat stress are just the early onset symptoms. But if average temperatures continue to rise by just a couple of degrees salt water creep, loss of habitat, animal extinction, agricultural decline are all anticipated scenarios. The most pessimistic projections suggest that eventually 65% of humans will be re-settled, and eventually lead to a complete collapse in social and political order. But again, at this stage, it is really just the oeuvre of futurists.

But most all scientists do agree that the longer global warming goes unchecked, the harder it becomes to arrest. At this stage I think there is a strong consensus within the scientific community that at least 1 degree of warming is completely unavoidable. The Australian government has predicted that 1.5 degree warming is likely in every single scenario other than "the most ambitious mitigation scenario" which would "require early participation from all emitters, including developing countries, as well as the application of technologies for actively removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere." See link below.

Scientists also agree that (and I quote from the Australian government website):

• It is very likely that anthropogenic influence, particularly greenhouse gases and stratospheric ozone depletion, has led to a detectable observed pattern of tropospheric warming and a corresponding cooling in the lower stratosphere since 1961.
• It is now very likely that human influence has contributed to observed global scale changes in the frequency and intensity of daily temperature extremes since the mid-20th century, and likely that human influence has more than doubled the probability of occurrence of heat waves in some locations.
• There is high confidence that changes in total solar irradiance have not contributed to the increase in global mean surface temperature over the period 1986 to 2008, based on direct satellite measurements of total solar irradiance.

So, if our best minds are in consensus about the fact that climate is changing, that we are very likely the cause, and that it will worsen exponentially, unless we collectively do something about it, can we at least commit to living a little differently? Especially before someone decides that Tasmania is worth waging a war over. Forget about other countries, control what you can, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...yada yada yada.

https://www.climatechangeinaustrali...pus/global-climate-change/global-projections/

For anyone that is interested NASA has a great interactive website that most people will enjoy. Link below.

https://climate.nasa.gov/