Discussion Random Discussion

[35Saints35]

No its not , its the mentality of "don't be happy about anything... you should be miserable and somber about everything.

People come to Australia from other countries still.
They come from Europe , they come from Afghanistan, they come from India, and Africa.
Lots of them like it here and like the way it is.

But god help you if you are born here and try to celebrate the fact that you like the way it is. Because someone is going to tell you that you why you shouldn't. Why you are offensive no matter what you do.

Right on

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Except Octoberfest is a beer festival. If they had a "cleansing day" or something that celebrated the start of the first prison camp the world would look down on them.

Why does it have to be a guilt day? Why not a unity day where the whole lot can celebrate. Make it the day of federation or something. **** off Queen Liz and put it on the day we got rid of the Limeys.

If the Chinese invaded tomorrow and every year you were expected to wave flags to your benevolent overlords hopefully you would be pissed off too.

No one expects anyone to wave flags.
I don't wave flags.
Do you really think you can compare Australia Day as was originally intended to a "cleansing day" such as you mentioned. If so you are exactly the type of person I'm referring to.
It doesn't have to be a guilt day. But when people keep using words such as Invasion, that's sort of what they are looking for.
The word invasion does not have connotations inciting celebration.
a) Using the word Limey is derogatory towards the English who are a big part of our heritage, but i guess that doesn't matter because they aren't indigenous.
b) Proper Australians know that the correct derogatory term is "Pohm or pom" often used in the expression "Pommy bastards" Go home to the USA if you want to call them Limeys.

 

[Joffaboy]

What is the aim of the renaming of Australia Day, as invasion Day if not to instill guilt.

It is ludicrous to suggest that all Indigenous people were invaded on a particular day.

I don't know where you get ALL Indigenous people were invaded, just like it would be ludicrous to claim all of Australia was settled on 26th of January 1788.

So considering this is now agreed upon and established, why do we have an Australia day in Victoria or WA, or Tassie when we weren't settled then?

No, it is a commemoration of the beginning of European Australia, and therefore the beginning of the invasion of Aboriginal Australia.

Why deny this simple fact?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

<<<< Aussie and proud, not carrying any guilt.
And yes I wouldn't mind seeing a First Australians day public holiday in which we can all celebrate our Murri mates culture and friendship.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

Fact is to the First Nations people, Australia Day respresents the day they lost everything and they did - no question.
Coz we did not personally do it to them, most Australians do not feel responsible for it and have no connection to the deep seated resentment the original people feel.

Most of us just want a day where we can celebrate our own country but the optics of the day to First Nations people given that it is on the day of the arrival of European settlement can never be reconciled.

There is a lot of trauma in this land that needs to be healed which we need to be big enough to tackle head on so that we can move on and genuinely come together as a nation.
Then we will have something to celebrate.

 

[Joffaboy]

It doesn't have to be a guilt day.

Agin you are the only one using the word guilt.

But when people keep using words such as Invasion, that's sort of what they are looking for.

Are they? Or maybe they just want acknowledgement of the truth, the beginning of dispossession due to invasion.

The word invasion does not have connotations inciting celebration.

So what? Sometimes the truth hurts and makes one feel uncomfortable. Denial just shows selfishness and a lack of compassion

a) Using the word Limey is derogatory towards the English who are a big part of our heritage, but i guess that doesn't matter because they aren't indigenous.
b) Proper Australians know that the correct derogatory term is "Pohm or pom" often used in the expression "Pommy bastards" Go home to the USA if you want to call them Limeys.

Only because English were the superior technological European power at the time.
How does English heritage have anything to do with Chinese, or Irish, or Greeks who are Australian and have that ancestory?

And the English don't matter for this conversation precisely because they aren't indigenous. they came in and stole the land by use of superior military means. They shot the first Australians, they poisoned their drinking holes, they stole and r*ped their women.

I have a little bit of Pommy heritage, but I don't identify myself with at race of cutthroats and murderers. precisely why I am not guilty about Invasion Day.

I do acknowledge what those bastards did, but my generation, and your generation should be working with the current aboriginal generation to make their lives better and part of that, like saying Sorry, is to acknowledge what European settlement did and when it started.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't know where you get ALL Indigenous people were invaded, just like it would be ludicrous to claim all of Australia was settled on 26th of January 1788.

So considering this is now agreed upon and established, why do we have an Australia day in Victoria or WA, or Tassie when we weren't settled then?

No, it is a commemoration of the beginning of European Australia, and therefore the beginning of the invasion of Aboriginal Australia.

Why deny this simple fact?

So the mere fact of our ( non-indigenous ) presence here is that of invasion. Therefore our presence is offensive.
Well i'm just going to have to offend, because i'm not going anywhere.

Simple facts are made for simpletons by simpletons.
What was Arthur Phillips first official policy towards the inhabitants of the Sydney area?

 

[Gangnam Saint]

<<<< Aussie and proud, not carrying any guilt.
And yes I wouldn't mind seeing a First Australians day public holiday in which we can all celebrate our Murri mates culture and friendship.

Interesting fact: the literal translation of the word "Aussie" in Chinese means "to take a shit".
Fair to say I don't use that term for Australian anymore.

 

[majortinkle]

I struggle with the concept of retaining indigenous culture when so different from the current norm, struggle with why it's important, struggle with identifying what my own culture is to be honest - maybe that's why I struggle with indigenous culture.

Despite that even I can see that 26 January is a ridiculous date to use for a celebration that I think everyone wants to see. What about 5 July instead - passing of the constitution act leading to national government?

Let's make sure aboriginal recognition goes through on the same day and then we can all celebrate.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Agin you are the only one using the word guilt.



Are they? Or maybe they just want acknowledgement of the truth, the beginning of dispossession due to invasion.



So what? Sometimes the truth hurts and makes one feel uncomfortable. Denial just shows selfishness and a lack of compassion



Only because English were the superior technological European power at the time.
How does English heritage have anything to do with Chinese, or Irish, or Greeks who are Australian and have that ancestory?

And the English don't matter for this conversation precisely because they aren't indigenous. they came in and stole the land by use of superior military means. They shot the first Australians, they poisoned their drinking holes, they stole and r*ped their women.

I have a little bit of Pommy heritage, but I don't identify myself with at race of cutthroats and murderers. precisely why I am not guilty about Invasion Day.

I do acknowledge what those bastards did, but my generation, and your generation should be working with the current aboriginal generation to make their lives better and part of that, like saying Sorry, is to acknowledge what European settlement did and when it started.

You use the same kind of racist stereotyping that racist use towards other races including indigenous Australians.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

You use the same kind of racist stereotyping that racist use towards other races including indigenous Australians.

Sorry but no, Joffa didn't take it there at all - and I would be all over it if anyone did.
Let's not debase the discussion by introducing that as the go-to meme or saying that anyone else was infering it.

 

[Nutsngum]

Interesting fact: the literal translation of the word "Aussie" in Chinese means "to take a shit".
Fair to say I don't use that term for Australian anymore.

This is even MORE reason to use it.


The biggest reason that people fail to understand the reasons behind native anger is that they have the idea that all this shit happened 150 years ago. Any aboriginal person over 50 years old was born in a country that didnt recognise them as even people and could have anything done to them without recourse. The thing is its NOT the distant past when all this stuff was occurring, the memories are still alive and fresh in many people's minds.

 

[RoundCubic]

The Japanese don't acknowledge their past and don't accept responsibility for their atrocities during WWII.

I suppose we should tell the survivors of the Burma Rail and Changi Prison to stop being sooks and don't worry that the Japanese tortured and murdered their mates.

Don't want the Japanese feeling guilty do we?

Yeah and all of asia is pissed about it hurts japanese business in asia. Chine burns down japanese stores from time to time. Korea put a statue of a sex slave victim infront of the Japanese embassy

 

[Gangnam Saint]

This is even MORE reason to use it.


The biggest reason that people fail to understand the reasons behind native anger is that they have the idea that all this shit happened 150 years ago. Any aboriginal person over 50 years old was born in a country that didnt recognise them as even people and could have anything done to them without recourse. The thing is its NOT the distant past when all this stuff was occurring, the memories are still alive and fresh in many people's minds.

Definitely brings a whole new meaning to the chant "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie - Oi, Oi,Oi"

 

[gringo2011]

This is even MORE reason to use it.


The biggest reason that people fail to understand the reasons behind native anger is that they have the idea that all this shit happened 150 years ago. Any aboriginal person over 50 years old was born in a country that didnt recognise them as even people and could have anything done to them without recourse. The thing is its NOT the distant past when all this stuff was occurring, the memories are still alive and fresh in many people's minds.

They weren't allowed to vote until about 1967 and people fought the referendum on allowing them to have rights because they were worried it would open the door to land claims.

 

[gringo2011]

I struggle with the concept of retaining indigenous culture when so different from the current norm, struggle with why it's important, struggle with identifying what my own culture is to be honest - maybe that's why I struggle with indigenous culture.

Despite that even I can see that 26 January is a ridiculous date to use for a celebration that I think everyone wants to see. What about 5 July instead - passing of the constitution act leading to national government?

Let's make sure aboriginal recognition goes through on the same day and then we can all celebrate.

Nice, get over the hang over from New years and then have just enough liver left to load up again.

 

[Rors]

Up until 1967, Aboriginal people of Australia were considered part of the flora & fauna of the country..... Yes, that is right, up until just 49 years ago, Aboriginal people of our country were considered animals....

This is just a part of why the aboriginal people dont celebrate or embrace Australia Day.... I dont blame them, as that point alone just makes me pissed off with the country i live in & I'm not even of Aboriginal descent.

 

[joop]

No its not , its the mentality of "don't be happy about anything... you should be miserable and somber about everything.

People come to Australia from other countries still.
They come from Europe , they come from Afghanistan, they come from India, and Africa.
Lots of them like it here and like the way it is.

But god help you if you are born here and try to celebrate the fact that you like the way it is. Because someone is going to tell you that you why you shouldn't. Why you are offensive no matter what you do.

Who says you have to miserable all the time? That has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately you seem to fall in the category of people that are selfish and think about themselves.
Do you honestly think it's fine to celebrate a day that has a direct link to making thousands of people miserable? I'm not aboriginal so I can't sit here and know what it's like, I didn't have my parents taken away, my family killed, my land taken, but if aboriginals still find Australia Day offensive because of the past then that's good enough for me.

 

[Highlander35]

Terra Nullius was only rejected by the courts in 1992 or something as well wasn't it? Or did the mabo case get explained to me incorrectly?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Who says you have to miserable all the time? That has nothing to do with it. Unfortunately you seem to fall in the category of people that are selfish and think about themselves.
Do you honestly think it's fine to celebrate a day that has a direct link to making thousands of people miserable? I'm not aboriginal so I can't sit here and know what it's like, I didn't have my parents taken away, my family killed, my land taken, but if aboriginals still find Australia Day offensive because of the past then that's good enough for me.

The Day does not have a direct link.
It is a symbolic link.
The interference is that any day we choose to celebrate the settlement of Australia, is by default a symbol of a day that aboriginals find offensive.
We therefore cannot actually celebrate it.
The date itself is almost meaningless.

 

[joop]

The Day does not have a direct link.
It is a symbolic link.
The interference is that any day we choose to celebrate the settlement of Australia, is by default a symbol of a day that aboriginals find offensive.
We therefore cannot actually celebrate it.
The date itself is almost meaningless.

For you it doesn't have a direct link, for thousands and thousands of aboriginals it does.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Up until 1967, Aboriginal people of Australia were considered part of the flora & fauna of the country..... Yes, that is right, up until just 49 years ago, Aboriginal people of our country were considered animals....

This is just a part of why the aboriginal people dont celebrate or embrace Australia Day.... I dont blame them, as that point alone just makes me pissed off with the country i live in & I'm not even of Aboriginal descent.

Nope. You are propagating inflammatory myths.
And even if the constitution had not been correct, the result of the referendum would mean that it was clearly not "considered" as such.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/03/10/myths-persist-about-1967-referendum

 

[Persevering Saint]

I'll say it again. Wattle Day, and we can all be happy.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They weren't allowed to vote until about 1967 and people fought the referendum on allowing them to have rights because they were worried it would open the door to land claims.

Bullshit
More inflammatory nonsense. They won the right to vote some 50 years earlier.
The 1967 referendum went through with around 90%.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

For you it doesn't have a direct link, for thousands and thousands of aboriginals it does.

How? Explain what is significant about the date.