Rate our second tier players.

[Chism]

Well as the title suggests i would like to know what us Carlton supporters think of our second tier players on our list??

As we all know our Elite group probably gives us 100% every week with the likes of .. Juddy , Fev , Murph , Waite , Gibbs , Stevens , Simpson.

But crucial to the outcome of games is how good our second tier group of players perform like... Betts , Fisher , Russell , Thornton , Carrazzo , Wiggins , Houlihan , Cloke etc these are the guys that must perform well next year for us to climb up the ladder and achieve finals success. So how do you think our list of second tier players stacks up against other clubs??

N.B I left Kruezer out as hes still young ( only having the 1 season ) and whatever Yarran does is a bonus.

Cheers Chism

 

[celtic_pride]

To be honest, I don't think our 2nd tier players are very good really (in comparison to say the top 4 clubs) and depth is a real reason why we won't be challening for a flag for another 2 years, once more kids get more games into them and develop nicely IE Grigg, Armfield, Browne etc.
We should never expect big things from our 2nd tier players, they really are the weak link in our club/list at the moment, esp Jordan Russell and Brad Fisher and sometimes Thornton.

 

[Chism]

To be honest, I don't think our 2nd tier players are very good really (in comparison to say the top 4 clubs) and depth is a real reason why we won't be challening for a flag for another 2 years, once more kids get more games into them and develop nicely IE Grigg, Armfield, Browne etc.
We should never expect big things from our 2nd tier players, they really are the weak link in our club/list at the moment, esp Jordan Russell and Brad Fisher and sometimes Thornton.

Agree CP.
For me the 2nd tier players are extremely important regarding the outcome of games with the quality getting heavily tagged and shut down to some extent and if the boys mentioned can lift next year i can see us playing finals. There a much underated group the 2nd tier players and i think our group is probably ranked between 5-8 in the league. With the Cats clearly first.

 

[Team Mo']

The young 2nd tier players look exciting.

Players like Bower, Jamison, Browne, Hampson, Armfield, and Grigg etc. look to be all heading down the right track. If they are all coached and given time (not too much - see Russel) then we will be laughing in a few years time.

It's the middle aged players like Houlihan, Wiggins, Carrazzo and Fisher etc. that we really need to work on. Obviously we had on of our worst drafting periods a little while ago and are being delt with the consequences of inadequate players.

That is why I don't think we'll challenge for at least 2 years as we need to "pass" on our more senior players and have a fully developed young list.

Overall our middle aged 2nd tier players are well below average.

 

[celtic_pride]

You know, those swapping pick 35 for Michael Mansfield type of crap deals (which pick 35 turned out ot be Mansfield) are a big part of the reason we're in this position.

 

[Blue Dimension]

You know, those swapping pick 35 for Michael Mansfield type of crap deals (which pick 35 turned out ot be Mansfield) are a big part of the reason we're in this position.

Chapman you mean.

Buy yeah, it is. The topping up hurt massively.

 

[Bradles21]

The young 2nd tier players look exciting.

Players like Bower, Jamison, Browne, Hampson, Armfield, and Grigg etc. look to be all heading down the right track. If they are all coached and given time (not too much - see Russel) then we will be laughing in a few years time.

It's the middle aged players like Houlihan, Wiggins, Carrazzo and Fisher etc. that we really need to work on. Obviously we had on of our worst drafting periods a little while ago and are being delt with the consequences of inadequate players.

That is why I don't think we'll challenge for at least 2 years as we need to "pass" on our more senior players and have a fully developed young list.

Overall our middle aged 2nd tier players are well below average.

tottally agree with you, when other clubs think of us they thinkall we have is judd, stevens and fev with murphs gibbs and kruezer coming up the ranks and a few decent players in waite simpson and scotland, but it's the rest of our team that makes our side average, i know we have much faith in grigg bower and jamison browne hampson etc.. but it is our other players that hurt us as in thornton cloke carrazzo fisher betts houlihan

 

[Faz 2000]

Certainly many of our 2nd tier players are "limited".

But as more 1st tier talent comes in above them and pushes them down the depth chart, the team gets stronger and stronger. Guys like Bentick and Carrazzo aren't good enough to be your team's 3rd or 4th midfielder - but if they're the 22nd player selected for the squad - that's pretty strong.

 

[Bradles21]

Certainly many of our 2nd tier players are "limited".

But as more 1st tier talent comes in above them and pushes them down the depth chart, the team gets stronger and stronger. Guys like Bentick and Carrazzo aren't good enough to be your team's 3rd or 4th midfielder - but if they're the 22nd player selected for the squad - that's pretty strong.

i still rate carrazzo

 

[HBF]

Over the past few seasons, we have been able to build a depth where we aren't as reliant on our A graders to get us over the line each week. Guys like Wiggins, Betts, Fisher, Thornton, Jamison, Grigg and a few others have been able to put in consistent performances, to enable our great club to really make a fight for finals in 2009.

 

[Kramer1]

Well as the title suggests i would like to know what us Carlton supporters think of our second tier players on our list??

As we all know our Elite group probably gives us 100% every week with the likes of .. Juddy , Fev , Murph , Waite , Gibbs , Stevens , Simpson.

I think our problems may start with rating Simpson amongst the elite. I like the guy, he works hard, but elite he ain't.

I tend to look at it from the bottom up. Who are the 6-10 weakest players on the list who have been there two years plus?

We took a massive step this year in getting rid of a number of list cloggers. Over the next year or two you would expect the guys like Bentick, Wiggins, Hartlett, Edwards and a few others to come under scrutiny. As long as we keep replacing these guys with better prospects then we are heading in the right direction.

Im rapt with the way Ratts and co are going about re-building the list. They have obviously identified and prioritised the problem areas and are ticking them off one by one.

 

[dukester95]

Houla is pretty handy when he is fit. Definitely in our top ten players when he can get onto the park. Sometimes a little soft but streets ahead of Russell and Wiggins in terms of footy brain and skills. Could be a real asset up forward next year.

 

[HARKER]

Houla is pretty handy when he is fit. Definitely in our top ten players when he can get onto the park. Sometimes a little soft but streets ahead of Russell and Wiggins in terms of footy brain and skills. Could be a real asset up forward next year.

When our second 18 looks like this I say we are in good shape going forward with back ups.

FULL BACKS Anderson O'Hailpin Bannister



CENTRE BACKS O'Keefe Austin Wiggins



CENTRES Armfield Hadley Robinson



CENTRE FORWARDS Hartlett Cloke Fischer



FORWARDS Russell Edwards Houlihan



RUCK / ROVERS Hampson Bentick Carrazzo

 

[Bradles21]

When our second 18 looks like this I say we are in good shape going forward with back ups.

FULL BACKS Anderson O'Hailpin Bannister



CENTRE BACKS O'Keefe Austin Wiggins



CENTRES Armfield Hadley Robinson



CENTRE FORWARDS Hartlett Cloke Fischer



FORWARDS Russell Edwards Houlihan



RUCK / ROVERS Hampson Bentick Carrazzo

doubt carrazzo who came 4th in our best and fairest is a second team player and tough call on houlihan cloke fisher

 

[HARKER]

doubt carrazzo who came 4th in our best and fairest is a second team player and tough call on houlihan cloke fisher

It is a tough call, but that is the beauty of the depth we have, now.
We can argue we may have similar type players but we will never be too far away from fielding a very good side next year and beyond.
This is currently the way I would have our starting 18.


FULL BACKS Browne Jamison Thornton



CENTRE BACKS Scotland Waite Bower



CENTRES Grigg Gibbs Simpson



CENTRE FORWARDS Walker Kreuzer Murphy



FORWARDS Betts Fevola Yarran



RUCK / ROVERS Warnock Judd Stevens

 

[Bradles21]

It is a tough call, but that is the beauty of the depth we have, now.
We can argue we may have similar type players but we will never be too far away from fielding a very good side next year and beyond.
This is currently the way I would have our starting 18.


FULL BACKS Browne Jamison Thornton



CENTRE BACKS Scotland Waite Bower



CENTRES Grigg Gibbs Simpson



CENTRE FORWARDS Walker Kreuzer Murphy



FORWARDS Betts Fevola Yarran



RUCK / ROVERS Warnock Judd Stevens

looks like a very good side, just the second tier players in the starting 18 needto step up another level if we wanna challenge for the 8

 

[dylan_mike]

i wouldn't say simpson is AA. And i think you are being harsh on Carrots, he is a running machine/ball magnet that is good under pressure. He is good with his hands, but his kicking disposal sometimes lets him down but no where near our worst.

Jamison, Bower, Betts, Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson, Griggs, Browne, Anderson, Austin, Yarran, Robinson, russell are our second/3rd Tier young brigade and our invested future.

I would love to see Jamison, Bower, Betts, Grigg and Russell step up a cog and take it to a new level , they are all capable of it.
Eveyone bags Russell , but as long as there is improvement every year from him there is hope.

Go The Blues

 

[dylan_mike]

add walker to that list.

 

[The Coach]

See Moss Rocket's "5 very important players in 2009" thread - I think he is on the money

But if somone else was to surprise - say Carlos or Cloke or Hadley, obviously then not all MR's 5 need to fire

 

[celtic_pride]

Chapman you mean.

Buy yeah, it is. The topping up hurt massively.

Yeah my bad, thanks for the correction

I guess though it is even more painful that Stephen O'Reily and his contract was a big reason that we got 'pinged' with those salary cap rorts.

 

[BluesMan]

When our second 18 looks like this I say we are in good shape going forward with back ups.

FULL BACKS Anderson O'Hailpin Bannister



CENTRE BACKS O'Keefe Austin Wiggins



CENTRES Armfield Hadley Robinson



CENTRE FORWARDS Hartlett Cloke Fischer



FORWARDS Russell Edwards Houlihan



RUCK / ROVERS Hampson Bentick Carrazzo

Wat have you been smoking, Carrazzo, cloke, fisher in the 2nds

 

[The Coach]

Wat have you been smoking, Carrazzo, cloke, fisher in the 2nds

You have to take it in the context of his named 1's team - a pretty good looking team but I think your boys would get a game in his 1's as he did not name an interchange - purely to illustrate his point about depth.

 

[Chism]

A much needed Bump for this thread i think. I started this last year as these players will now have a massive say in how we go this year. Overall they have not been to bad but yesterday against the hawks some were found wanting. I think our whole season depends on these blokes stepping up.

 

[CrippsonBlue]

Our 'second tier players' are now able to be rotated in and out of the 2's, meaning they are being included either because they are:

a) performing consistantly in the seniors (i.e. AJ)
b) have shown good form in the reserves (i.e. Armfield)
c) provide a good match up for the opposition (i.e. Setanta)

Obviously being 'second tier players' they might not be able to carry this form into the seniors (i.e. Bentley), or be able to perform consistantly (i.e. Robbinson)

So yes, we will often have second tier players who have bad games, but the beauty is they then get dropped for someone who fits the abc above.

Every team has second tier players. To combat this, you need depth to hopefully get them contributing. We now have this, yet ultimately we will have games where a lot of them play bad (ala Hawks) or a lot play good (ala Bulldogs). Generally, I dont see it as a problem.

We needed to have depth (FFS we have Hadley, Grigg, Browne, Bannister, Hampson, Robbinson, Yarran, Fisher, (Warnock) ect. waiting in the wings) and we needed to have a few of these players stepping up a level and being consistant (Russell, Carrazzo, Wiggins)

A more appropriate post would be to delete this, and simply write 'all good signs'

 

[krayfesh]

Carazzo is close to being a top tier player for us. Ball magnet and he's added the tagging string to his bow, locking out Gilbee and Hodge in successive weeks.