Rate the list

[THATSGOLD]

Here is my 2 cents worth. Not based on any scientific evidence, but on my own opinion and observations.
Based on 2013 form, (+) will improve this season again, (-) will drop off, and (=) stay the same.

= Pendlebury
- Swan
= Cloke
+ Beams
= Reid
- Ball
+ Grundy
+ Williams
= Adams
- Harry
+ Sidebottom
+ Seedsman
- Brown
+ Toovey
= Dwyer
= Thomas
= Keeffe
- Elliot
= Macaffer
+ Fasolo
- Maxwell
+ Young
- Goldsack

I'd agree with all the + except for Toovey and Fasolo coming off injury. I think they will both struggle.

Agree with all the = except for Adams. I think Adams will be MASSIVE for us in 2014 right away and all year.

Agree with all the - .

 

[jackcass]

Pretty hard to rate players until they get to the 50-100 games under their belts and we've got over half the list with less than 50 games experience. And obviously some of those will not make it or will move on to try to get more opportunities but given that a significant number are high draft picks I'm certainly hoping that we end up with a long list of A graders.

Clearly the club doesn't consider that we have any D graders or they wouldn't be on the list in 2014 so I think people are being a little harsh on Yagmoor, Gault, and Clarke.

 

[Travis bloke]

Don't worry lads we have a good mixture of very good players next year we will see a tougher much revamped Collingwood MACHINE.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Automatic disqualification for those who don't have Beams in the elite category.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

A+ means he will be a star of the game. No way will we ever talk about
Karnezis in the same breathe as Pendlebury Fyfe or Mitchell someone of that quality.

Oh good thanks for clearing up how my own rating system works. I did mention that ratings were relative to position, Karnezis could easily become an a grade half forward. Obviously this is different to an A grade midfielder. Also tell me more about the future as you have clearly seen the outcome of Karnezis's career already.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Oh good thanks for clearing up how my own rating system works. I did mention that ratings were relative to position, Karnezis could easily become an a grade half forward. Obviously this is different to an A grade midfielder. Also tell me more about the future as you have clearly seen the outcome of Karnezis's career already.

Ok give me examples of current A grade half forwards. I'll see if I agree Karnezis to can to their level.

 

[Hinequarters]

Ok give me examples of current A grade half forwards. I'll see if I agree Karnezis to can to their level.

Get me a coffee first.. white one sugar

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Ok give me examples of current A grade half forwards. I'll see if I agree Karnezis to can to their level.

In no particular order
Not far off/Post current: Aker, Didak and Stevie J before he went more midfield.

Current: Wingard, Rioli, Milne, L Thomas, Fyfe (more of a midfielder), Dangerfield has been named there twice in the AA for the last two years so I guess he is in but he is way more of a mid in my opinion.

This stems from not having an 'elite' rating that everyone else has, I am not a huge fan of this. It is incredibly hard to have a player constantly be elite. I am more a fan of looking back and calling them elite after their career is done. At the time you can only say what they are capable of achieving per season. For example, Leigh Matthews is considered Elite but never won a Brownlow, if Pendles never wins a Brownlow and doesn't get another flag, will we call him elite later down the track ( based on the fact that people are now)?

Perhaps if I elevated Cloke, Swan and and Pendles to Elite, you would be less annoyed by my Karnezis rating, However, I am basing all their ratings on what they have achieved over this season, they can't do better than A+.

I am saying Karnezis might reach A+ level, not for his whole career, not that he will win more Brownlows than Judd, but that he might have a season or two at All Australian level. I believe he has the skills and talent to make this happen, I am not saying it is definite, more likely he'll be around a B+ average with a few high spots.

 

[THATSGOLD]

In no particular order
Not far off/Post current: Aker, Didak and Stevie J before he went more midfield.

Current: Wingard, Rioli, Milne, L Thomas, Fyfe (more of a midfielder), Dangerfield has been named there twice in the AA for the last two years so I guess he is in but he is way more of a mid in my opinion.

This stems from not having an 'elite' rating that everyone else has, I am not a huge fan of this. It is incredibly hard to have a player constantly be elite. I am more a fan of looking back and calling them elite after their career is done. At the time you can only say what they are capable of achieving per season. For example, Leigh Matthews is considered Elite but never won a Brownlow, if Pendles never wins a Brownlow and doesn't get another flag, will we call him elite later down the track ( based on the fact that people are now)?

Perhaps if I elevated Cloke, Swan and and Pendles to Elite, you would be less annoyed by my Karnezis rating, However, I am basing all their ratings on what they have achieved over this season, they can't do better than A+.

I am saying Karnezis might reach A+ level, not for his whole career, not that he will win more Brownlows than Judd, but that he might have a season or two at All Australian level. I believe he has the skills and talent to make this happen, I am not saying it is definite, more likely he'll be around a B+ average with a few high spots.

Geez you really rate him. Tell me, had he still been playing with Brisbane would you still rate him to become one of the great forwards of the competition?
I think he a guy that fell to us more because of his go home circumstances not because we chased him and rated him highly. I don't think we chased him very hard similar to how we landed Lynch. I don't think we targeted the guy mid season it was just a spur of the moment he's available so he will do sort of trade.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Geez you really rate him. Tell me, had he still been playing with Brisbane would you still rate him to become one of the great forwards of the competition?
I think he a guy that fell to us more because of his go home circumstances not because we chased him and rated him highly. I don't think we chased him very hard similar to how we landed Lynch. I don't think we targeted the guy mid season it was just a spur of the moment he's available so he will do sort of trade.

Yeah I do rate him. Not as you say, to become a great of the competition, but he could certainly be in AA contention one day. I believe he has a high ceiling. I wouldn't want to wager he'd be remembered much after his career, but there are lots of good players that aren't remembered as 'greats' but were still among the top players during their time.

I actually have two or three mates who support Brisbane and rated him, so I have been following him along distantly. When he came to the pies however, I got a lot more interested. I always found it bizarre that he wasn't getting games for Brissy as everyone except Voss seemed to rate him. In fact, even Voss rated him really highly initially, before going very cold on him.

Obviously he wasn't as high on our priority list during trade period because we were looking to secure a better young talent in Taylor Adams. We were also keen on getting a backup/second fiddle for Cloke in White. Not to mention that Brisbane were having a fire sale, so I doubt we were in any rush to go out and find someone from there because it was going to be relatively easy if we wanted to. The reality is despite what I rate Karnezis at, a flashy half forward wasn't as bigger priority as bolstering our midfield stocks and tall forwards, so the pies picked him up as a bonus really.

For what it is worth, I was actually disappointed to lose Paine for Karnezis, despite how I rate him. I would say Paine only has the potential to become a solid B+ second forward, but that is something we probably needed more on our list than another half-forward come midfielder. If any one of White, Cloke or Lynch go down then we are making up the numbers list wise and potentially best 22 wise. Despite all this though, I am excited to see what he can do given he is now playing for the club he loves with the support of probably the best facilities in the game. Perhaps I am a bit too keen on him, but time will tell.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Automatic disqualification for those who don't have Beams in the elite category.

Pretty much this. It astounds me how underrated the guy is by his own supporters. Is it the tats? I only say that because Swan has often been underrated in here as well. Even last year people in here were still saying Sidebottom was a better player than him when in reality, he has never been close.

Beams, on games played has been our best player since the beginning of the 2012 season. He has been better than Swan and Pendlebury over that period. I am not saying he is better, but his performances have been.

One poster in here had Beams as a B+ player. If a 30-31 possession per game goal kicking mid with toughness, clearance winning ability, a good kick and elite hands is B+ then Gaz is the only elite player in the comp. On games played a top 5 mid in the comp since 2011.

 

[Vicky Park]

Also you can kick 3 goals a game and have no impact. Junk time goals etc. Cloke doesn't win us enough games in the first half. We were very slow starters in 2013 and failed to regain the lead one too many times.

This debate about Cloke - can be looked at another way. Who do opposition teams and strategists put most effort into trying to nullify? Cloke would have to be near the top. An absolute nightmare for other teams. Although I'm heartily sick of seeing Cloke with 3 defenders hanging off him. IMO, this is one of the critical areas for Bucks and co to sort out in 2014.

 

[Vicky Park]

If Toovey loses an even an inch of pace from that knee injury I think we will see a rapid decline, much like Didak and Maxwell the past 2 years. Unfortunately Alans biggest asset was his pace.

TG, you are hard work. Must you always look for the negative? Here I've been, anticipating Toovs return, without a care in the world (well without thinking of his pace being impacted!), and now I'm concerned. Really hope you are wrong about this (I'm sure you do too).

 

[Pie eyed]

Carlton have copied this thread now.....
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