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[THATSGOLD]

Not as badly as your posting falls away.. Seriously Pendles not A+.. when are you going to stop being such an infant

Swans been a better more compete player than Pendlebury over the past 5 years. He's our best player. Pendlebury is the next best. If Pendlebury has a flaw it's not kicking enough goals from the middle anymore. A for me.

 

[jmac70]

As a teacher, god you guys mark easily. To me C is average (in the literal sense), B is good, A is very good and A+ is excellent.

So essentially, I think the A- guys are really B. The B+ guys are B. The B guys are C and anyone below B is a D or worse.

Having said that, most of the lists are ordered similarly to how I'd order them. The player I'd move down is Ball and I expect that we will be moving Adams up pretty quickly.

Great minds think alike

 

[THATSGOLD]

E

Yes because someone who averages 3 goals a game is OBVIOUSLY the one losing us the game.

Do you actually believe this?

if you don't take your chances and miss shots early on it comes back to bite you, if
Cloke misses a few he goes on to have a poor one. The Richmond game was a stand out for Cloke in 2013, BUT he didn't do it often enough to win us more games in 13.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Yes because someone who averages 3 goals a game is OBVIOUSLY the one losing us the game.

Do you actually believe this?

Also you can kick 3 goals a game and have no impact. Junk time goals etc. Cloke doesn't win us enough games in the first half. We were very slow starters in 2013 and failed to regain the lead one too many times.

 

[loki04]

Also you can kick 3 goals a game and have no impact. Junk time goals etc. Cloke doesn't win us enough games in the first half. We were very slow starters in 2013 and failed to regain the lead one too many times.

It's not really clokes fault when he has 3 opponents every game due to lack of support and the way we move the ball forward of center.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Also you can kick 3 goals a game and have no impact. Junk time goals etc. Cloke doesn't win us enough games in the first half. We were very slow starters in 2013 and failed to regain the lead one too many times.

How many of them are really junk time goals? I just don't understand how you can single Cloke out, when he does his job as a forward to kick goals.

Kicks 68 goals a season, 2nd in the Coleman yet isn't ranked an elite forward. Boggles my mind tbh.

Let me ask you this, who do you think is a better KPF than Cloke right now?

 

[THATSGOLD]

How many of them are really junk time goals? I just don't understand how you can single Cloke out, when he does his job as a forward to kick goals.

Kicks 68 goals a season, 2nd in the Coleman yet isn't ranked an elite forward. Boggles my mind tbh.

Let me ask you this, who do you think is a better KPF than Cloke right now?

Because when your conversion rate costs you chances (not including out on the fulls) there is no way he can be an A+

 

[THATSGOLD]

It's not really clokes fault when he has 3 opponents every game due to lack of support and the way we move the ball forward of center.

True but that is up to Buckley not to allow it all game.

 

[Hinequarters]

True but that is up to Buckley not to allow it all game.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Because when your conversion rate costs you chances (not including out on the fulls) there is no way he can be an A+

Poor conversion rate still equates to 2nd in the Coleman.

It still means he's an A+, it just doesn't mean he's an A++.

Unless you think, Jarryd Roughead is an A+ because he's kicked 4 more goals, and that there are no more A+ KPF?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Poor conversion rate still equates to 2nd in the Coleman.

It still means he's an A+, it just doesn't mean he's an A++.

Unless you think, Jarryd Roughead is an A+ because he's kicked 4 more goals, and that there are no more A+ KPF?

We go to Cloke more than any other team in the comp. Roughead can play in the middle when's he's down.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

We go to Cloke more than any other team in the comp. Roughead can play in the middle when's he's down.

And there are reasons why we do, with none of them actually having to do with your opinion that Cloke is not an elite player.

9 games has seen him kick less than 3 goals, 3 of them being less than 2. And most of them have been due to poor inaccuracy.

It's okay that Roughead can play in the middle when he's down, because Cloke doesn't need to.

 

[dansa]

How many of them are really junk time goals? I just don't understand how you can single Cloke out, when he does his job as a forward to kick goals.

Kicks 68 goals a season, 2nd in the Coleman yet isn't ranked an elite forward. Boggles my mind tbh.

Let me ask you this, who do you think is a better KPF than Cloke right now?

It seems for this exercise A+ was the very highest ranking and as Cloke has a clear weakness I don't think he justifies the highest grade. If his career was judged up til now he would go down as very good forward not a great like Dunstall, Lockett, Coleman, Coventry, Hudson etc

Swan and Pendlebury on the other hand would be equals of the games elite. Therefore they can't all be considered in the same class.

 

[Quicky]

We go to Cloke more than any other team in the comp. Roughead can play in the middle when's he's down.

I don't see how this is a criticism of Cloke? We go to Cloke as much as we do for two reasons. One because Cloke is the most dominant player in the league in the air. No one else comes close. The second, and real issue for us, is that we didn't have enough other players in our forward line playing well enough to vary it. You can see with our recruiting that we are trying to address this.That's a step in the right direction.

I seriously don't see the logic in being down on having a player like Cloke in the side? It's a ridiculous argument to be making and having.

 

[dansa]

I don't see how this is a criticism of Cloke? We go to Cloke as much as we do for two reasons. One because Cloke is the most dominant player in the league in the air. No one else comes close. The second, and real issue for us, is that we didn't have enough other players in our forward line playing well enough to vary it. You can see with our recruiting that we are trying to address this.That's a step in the right direction.

I seriously don't see the logic in being down on having a player like Cloke in the side? It's a ridiculous argument to be making and having.

It's a post about rating the list. It requires argument, discussion and opinions. It becomes pointless if we ignore the weaknesses of players and just rate every player as a great.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

It seems for this exercise A+ was the very highest ranking and as Cloke has a clear weakness I don't think he justifies the highest grade. If his career was judged up til now he would go down as very good forward not a great like Dunstall, Lockett, Coleman, Coventry, Hudson etc

Swan and Pendlebury on the other hand would be equals of the games elite. Therefore they can't all be considered in the same class.

Well then we have to discuss whether an A+ is in comparison to everyone who has played the game, or to the current league.

The list comparing to the league seems much more appropriate, and thus he is an A+.

The only weakness Cloke has is his inaccuracy in front of goal, which is what is separating him from becoming an elite player to a possibly one of the greats.

 

[dansa]

Well then we have to discuss whether an A+ is in comparison to everyone who has played the game, or to the current league.

The list comparing to the league seems much more appropriate, and thus he is an A+.

The only weakness Cloke has is his inaccuracy in front of goal, which is what is separating him from becoming an elite player to a possibly one of the greats.

Inaccuracy in front of goal is a fairly significant weakness for a key forward.

If Cloke, Pendlebury & Swan were to retire now only Swan and Pendlebury would go down as greats so how can they all be given the same grading?

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Inaccuracy in front of goal is a fairly significant weakness for a key forward.

If Cloke, Pendlebury & Swan were to retire now only Swan and Pendlebury would go down as greats so how can they all be given the same grading?

Sigh. Yes, it is, but that would only be significant if said player WASN'T kicking an average of 3 goals a game.

Swan is 3 years older than Cloke, and Pendlebury is in a whole different class. I wouldn't even bother discussing whether or not they go down as greats because their career hasn't finished yet. Cloke still has plenty more seasons to improve.

It is a separate discussion when you discuss whether a player is a "great of the game".

 

[dansa]

Sigh. Yes, it is, but that would only be significant if said player WASN'T kicking an average of 3 goals a game.

No need to 'sigh' TFB. Remember, it's the Off-season and this place would be even more boring if everyone agreed with each other.

If you can hang on another couple of months we can look forward to
'Buckley can't coach'
'Sinclair - never again!'
'Insert new recruits name - already a superstar'.

 

[Bard]

Re: Cloke, it depends how you want to look at it. If you're basing ratings using all-time greats as a benchmark, then Cloke would certainly not be an A+. However I don't think that's an accurate way to rate a list. Instead you should look at the current pool of players. I personally don't think there is an outright best KPF going around - in fact the top echelon of KPF's is quite even IMO. Therefore you'd have to say Cloke gets an A+ if he's the equal best KPF at this moment in time?

 

[Somebody]

We go to Cloke more than any other team in the comp. Roughead can play in the middle when's he's down.

Yes not sure why they don't try to devfelop cloke as a KPD as well so he can be swung into defense occasionally to break things up if our forward liine is not functioning.

 

[Swooop]

Cloke elite? Close, but gets a no from me.

Marks like a lion, kicks like a doofus.

And given the ultimate aim of the game for a KPF is to kick straight ... nah.

If it was a 50-50 still at that point, his lack of any significant creativity with ball in hand at HFF or wing becomes the decider IMO, as he mainly just blasts it, too often ignoring way better options.

Pendles and Swan are elite / A +

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Cloke elite? Close, but gets a no from me.

Marks like a lion, kicks like a doofus.

And given the ultimate aim of the game for a KPF is to kick straight ... nah.

If it was a 50-50 still at that point, his lack of any significant creativity with ball in hand at HFF or wing becomes the decider IMO, as he mainly just blasts it, too often ignoring way better options.

Pendles and Swan are elite / A +

The aim of the game is to kick goals. Not kick straight. You can be as accurate as you want, I'm still better than you if I double the goals you kick.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Cloke elite? Close, but gets a no from me.

Marks like a lion, kicks like a doofus.

And given the ultimate aim of the game for a KPF is to kick straight ... nah.

If it was a 50-50 still at that point, his lack of any significant creativity with ball in hand at HFF or wing becomes the decider IMO, as he mainly just blasts it, too often ignoring way better options.

Pendles and Swan are elite / A +

Tend to agree.

In fact our two potentially elite talls Cloke and Reid are 'not quites' for me, Cloke due to kicking, Reid due to the amount of time he spends injured (but that is a whole nother argument probably best not to start up). I would venture that a big injury free season from both these two would go a long way toward our overall team success.

Cloke as a forward has never had that J Brown, Lockett, Dunstall, Carey eye of the tiger in front of the sticks. It is his fatal flaw. You can almost always tell when he is going to miss, it will often be a high stakes shot from ten metres out directly in front, and then in the blink of an eye he could slot one from the fifty metre angle on his wrong side.

The beauty of Cloke is his marking and endurance. I always look on him not as a pure match winner but a guy who can have a major impact and be expected to kick about 3 goals 5 and take up to 3 key defenders because of his threat factor. If you could combine him with 1 or 2 other effective tall forwards our fw line would be super effective.

 

[loki04]

Tend to agree.

In fact our two potentially elite talls Cloke and Reid are 'not quites' for me, Cloke due to kicking, Reid due to the amount of time he spends injured (but that is a whole nother argument probably best not to start up). I would venture that a big injury free season from both these two would go a long way toward our overall team success.

Cloke as a forward has never had that J Brown, Lockett, Dunstall, Carey eye of the tiger in front of the sticks. It is his fatal flaw. You can almost always tell when he is going to miss, it will often be a high stakes shot from ten metres out directly in front, and then in the blink of an eye he could slot one from the fifty metre angle on his wrong side.

The beauty of Cloke is his marking and endurance. I always look on him not as a pure match winner but a guy who can have a major impact and be expected to kick about 3 goals 5 and take up to 3 key defenders because of his threat factor. If you could combine him with 1 or 2 other effective tall forwards our fw line would be super effective.

Is that all? nothing elite about that is there...