Ratts and Clarkson

[jonoman89]

Now, there has been a lot of Ratten bashing going around these boards. But i don't think it's entirely justified. The man is clearly learning his trade, much like our players. He needs time to craft the list and create a solid game plan - this does not occur over two pre-seasons.

Compare Ratten's first few games to that of Clarkson's. Clarkson took over in late 2004, got some very good kids in the 2004 draft, and by 2007 they were a finals team. 2008 they won the Grand final

2005 - 5 wins, 17 losses
2006 - 9 wins, 13 losses
-----------------------------------------
14 wins out of a total 44 games - 31.8% winning rate

Compare this to Ratten:

2007 - 0 wins, 7 losses
2008 - 10 wins, 12 losses
2009 (so far) - 4 wins, 5 losses
---------------------------------------
14 wins out of a total 38 games - 36.8% winning rate


This puts Ratten even with 7 straight losses (dubious to some) in 2007 above Clarkson in terms of performance for their first few games. And i don't doubt that this record will improve. Clarko had Buddy, Roughy, Lewis etc. developing. We have Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer.

Very similar set of circumstances - though we are critical of Ratts (as we should be), the man deserves time to craft the team in his way. That way is still yet to be perfected, but it will be.

 

[Blueboiiz]

Coaches are like players, they need time, Brett has only had it for two seasons.

 

[gbatman]

hit the nail on the head. He's gonna get it wrong, so are our players, it's if they learn from that that counts.

 

[thylacine60]

It's a good thing BF posters don't have such a low strike rate. Imagine where the club would be if we didn't have our shit together? FMD.

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

So just because Clarkson won a premiership means Ratten will win one too?

Why not compare him to Terry Wallace then?

Terry Wallace's first 2 years at Richmond:

2005 - 10 wins, 12 losses
2006 - 11 wins, 11 losses

21 wins out of a total of 44 games - 48% winning rate

****!!!

 

[MckayMagic]

So just because Clarkson won a premiership means Ratten will win one too?

Why not compare him to Terry Wallace then?

Terry Wallace's first 2 years at Richmond:

2005 - 10 wins, 12 losses
2006 - 11 wins, 11 losses

21 wins out of a total of 44 games - 48% winning rate

****!!!

Well if you actually read what is being said Jason you would realise Terry Wallace was an AFL coach before he coached at ùrichmond and had already developed his coaching style. Whereas comparing Clarkson and Ratten together works as neither of them had been AFL coaches before. Ratten will be fine of course he will make some errors but the players make errors as well.

 

[Bluebear]

2007 - 0 wins, 7 losses
2008 - 10 wins, 12 losses
2009 (so far) - 4 wins, 5 losses
---------------------------------------
14 wins out of a total 38 games - 36.8% winning rate

Apart from giving Ratts an extra loss (he took over in round 17 vs Saints and coached 6 games in 2007), I think you are spot on.

For much the same reason as it is ridiculous for people to write off Yarran (many even before he debuted ), Ratts is still very young as a coach......will make mistakes......is big enough to put his hand up rather than talk about passengers again.........

Our game plan will evolve and the players will get used to the game style, and each other.

This is Judd first year in the midfield in his current capacity (his style has changed), Gibbs has only moved there full time this year, Hadley is new to the setup due to injury............most of our key players in that centre square have had a year to work out each others games.......why do we expect it will happen quicker?

Our intensity is an issue, and like all good inconsistent sides, we will be "up" this week and belt the WCE. The challenge comes the two weeks after to maintain that intensity at the Gabba, then home vs Saints.

Waites injury may cost us finals, but their will be positives......I give you Mark Austin.

This can only make us stronger going forward.

 

[Captain Crawf]

The differnece is that Clarkson had to bottom the club out and re-build from scratch, even though you guys are still re-building to an extent, Clarko had no where near the deapth of talent to play with at the same stage of his career.

 

[serenityNow]

Now, there has been a lot of Ratten bashing going around these boards. But i don't think it's entirely justified. The man is clearly learning his trade, much like our players. He needs time to craft the list and create a solid game plan - this does not occur over two pre-seasons.

Compare Ratten's first few games to that of Clarkson's. Clarkson took over in late 2004, got some very good kids in the 2004 draft, and by 2007 they were a finals team. 2008 they won the Grand final

2005 - 5 wins, 17 losses
2006 - 9 wins, 13 losses
-----------------------------------------
14 wins out of a total 44 games - 31.8% winning rate

Compare this to Ratten:

2007 - 0 wins, 7 losses
2008 - 10 wins, 12 losses
2009 (so far) - 4 wins, 5 losses
---------------------------------------
14 wins out of a total 38 games - 36.8% winning rate


This puts Ratten even with 7 straight losses (dubious to some) in 2007 above Clarkson in terms of performance for their first few games. And i don't doubt that this record will improve. Clarko had Buddy, Roughy, Lewis etc. developing. We have Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer.

Very similar set of circumstances - though we are critical of Ratts (as we should be), the man deserves time to craft the team in his way. That way is still yet to be perfected, but it will be.

Our list was in a lot better shape then Hawthorns when Ratten took over.

Not bashing Ratts, i too think he needs time. But to compare him to the coach of a side that was yet to off load their hacks and rebuild?

 

[Alice]

You can't be F&#$ING serious!!!! Carlton's list better than Hawthorn's????????? - since 2001 when Carlton finished 5th and Hawthorn 6th, they have finished 16th/10th, 15th/9th, 11th/15th, 16th/14th (Clarkson's 1st year), 16th/11th - then Ratten took over on the end of a 9 game losing streak. 3 last places and a 2nd last + salary cap penalties suggests to me theres no way in hell Carlton had a better list than Hawthorn when the respective coaches took over.

 

[len_jet]

jonoman when you get a chance could you get a comparison to Mark Thompson as well... weren't his first few years a little lean?

 

[The Cranium]

Whilst I sit back here puffing on a cuban I have to wonder...

 

[BlueDW]

Our list was in a lot better shape then Hawthorns when Ratten took over.

Not bashing Ratts, i too think he needs time. But to compare him to the coach of a side that was yet to off load their hacks and rebuild?

The game before Ratts took over we lost by 117 in Brisbane, in the worst football day that I have ever had to endure. Don't tell me our list was in good shape, it was a roadcrash except for the potential in Gibbs and Murph. We had nothing else!

 

[diesel1]

What the hell is the point of comparing Clarkson with Ratten? Two different personalities, two different list and two very different approaches. Just because Clarkson had a slow start and eventually brought home a premiership doesn't mean Ratten is eventually going to bring one home.

The amount of crap that gets posted on this board is staggering, and what’s even more disturbing people on this board buy it!

I hope Ratten does well and I hope he can smarten the f*** up on match days. His selection decisions and game day strategies are shocking.

 

[Blue Bawls]

What the hell is the point of comparing Clarkson with Ratten? Two different personalities, two different list and two very different approaches. Just because Clarkson had a slow start and eventually brought home a premiership doesn't mean Ratten is eventually going to bring one home.

The amount of crap that gets posted on this board is staggering, and what’s even more disturbing people on this board buy it!

I hope Ratten does well and I hope he can smarten the f*** up on match days. His selection decisions and game day strategies are shocking.

So considering he has a fist full of young players and a few good senior players, that it took a year to get our backline and centre into shape, that the forward structure has needed attention to become less one-dimensional, that he's identified that the divide between AFL and VFL is wide and leaving players in the Ants is no way to develop depth, that a few key players have had injury problems, that his coaching staff has changed around again this year, that the skill level of ALL the playing group seems to fluctuate dramatically each week, that he has enormous pressure on him to return Carlton to the glory days, you reckon he's a shocker...

You're right, some of the ignorant, ill-informed, judgemental crap that gets posted on this board iis staggering.

 

[blueman_sal]

I wish you knew what you were talking about, its a great attempt at constructing an argument, first my problem with Ratten is that he was trained at Melbourne and well look at where they are. When Ratten came to Carlton he was given Judd and Kreuzer, with gibbs, murphy, fevola, stevens, and scotland already there. We won 10 games last and many of them in the last quarter they were not tactical coaching brilliance they were the players lifting. He won 10 games last year and got a 2 year contract extension, excuse me anybody would have won 10 games with that list. He tacticly is a poor decision maker and carlton didnt need an inexperienced coach after 7 years of failure. He has brought over what Melbourne threw out, and i didnt like him from day 1. Every playing list in the AFL is full of kids and ours are much better than most what is failing us is our coaching strategy and tactics. Seriously why play an underdone Fev from round one, why let him do wieghts and not condition him, why have a forward structure still so Fev concious, why chop and change every week when we only lost by four or five points, Ratten we are being out coached and teams have zoned us off coming from the back line all season, stop saying we are young when its our inconsistency with structure that effects the playing group. Why is that we have been in the top 5 for attack in the last three years and our defence was a problem but now our midfield, forward line is been shut down by teams like fremantle, adelaide...come on guys Ratten has some explaining to do???? We didnt need inexperience after seven years of hell come on we are better than this!!!!

 

[mediumsizered]

jonoman when you get a chance could you get a comparison to Mark Thompson as well... weren't his first few years a little lean?

Thompson actually coached Geelong into the finals in his 1st season as coach, before going 12th, 9th & 12th, with 2003, Thompson's 4th season as coach, seeing the Cats only win 7 1/2 games for the season. The start of the 2004 season saw Geelong lose the first 3 games, including the 54 point belting at Princes Park against Carlton, which led to reports of a potential challenge to the Geelong board & the axe hovering over Thompson's head (this came after a 61 point loss to St Kilda in Round 1).

By the end of 2004 Geelong had found their way to 4th position on the ladder, unthinkable at Round 3, having only won 10 1/2 games out of their previous 25.

Of course Thompson was under the pump again at the end of the 2006 season, reportedly only retaining his position due to a casting vote by Cats' president, Frank Costa, with the Cats' board being split down the middle with their support, or otherwise, of Thompson. At this stage of his coaching career Thompson had a 48.7% winning record. That sort of puts things into perspective.

 

[len_jet]

Thompson actually coached Geelong into the finals in his 1st season as coach, before going 12th, 9th & 12th, with 2003, Thompson's 4th season as coach, seeing the Cats only win 7 1/2 games for the season. The start of the 2004 season saw Geelong lose the first 3 games, including the 54 point belting at Princes Park against Carlton, which led to reports of a potential challenge to the Geelong board & the axe hovering over Thompson's head (this came after a 61 point loss to St Kilda in Round 1).

By the end of 2004 Geelong had found their way to 4th position on the ladder, unthinkable at Round 3, having only won 10 1/2 games out of their previous 25.

Of course Thompson was under the pump again at the end of the 2006 season, reportedly only retaining his position due to a casting vote by Cats' president, Frank Costa, with the Cats' board being split down the middle with their support, or otherwise, of Thompson. At this stage of his coaching career Thompson had a 48.7% winning record. That sort of puts things into perspective.

cheers mate... obviously every coach has a different route to "success" and Ratts is forging his at the moment.

While comparisons like these aren't great to a degree they are good to highlight the turn around a good coach can do with a young list. The comparisons to a degree are there... young list, fresh coach, plenty of talent, plenty of support on and off the field... hopefully the ultimate success prevails!