Autopsy 2025 Round 18 Lions by 37. Poor skills and lack of class

[swuzzlebubble]

Voss admitted in his press conference that we haven’t done enough work on skills!

He said that but skills have dropped off in recent weeks along with the general falling apart of basically everything else.
This isn't about what they did or didn't do over Christmas.

 

[jj1978]

My belated thoughts from the game:

• Better energy across the game.
• Some senior players lifted a bit like Cripps who had much more energy.
• Others (Charlie, TDK) still disappointing.
• Pitto with the torp of the decade. When Pitto is up and about, he lifts the boys so much.
• Haynes dumping Charlie was amazing. Hook it into my veins.
• The ump that floored Cowan needs to be dropped and agree with Vossy - ball up there. Criminal.
• Cripps needs serious goal kicking practice. Few others do as well just quietly.
• We are still so slow. Very little urgency.
• As a whole, we are way off the pace - nothing is changing this year (we need these sweeping changes yesterday).
• Bring in a few more kids next week, please.

The Haynes pick up has been the best thing (who would've said this at round 3) we've done for a while in terms of recruitment. As a 33 year old who's been in a different environment it clearly shows how he takes his footy, he may only have 1-2 years left but I'm at the point for our mini reset next year we consider putting him and Newman in our leadership group for the year.

 

[jj1978]

Have to agree with those who believe Brisbane were in second gear most of the night. I think the commentators knew this as well but were pumping up how great Brisbane were apparently playing to try and politely gloss over how awful we are.

What is it with the media all of a sudden supporting us. Fox feels like they were pushing the narrative to retain Voss, that Cripps was awesome last night (he was better than he's been this year, but not 22-24 Cripps). They were even putting themselves down for how they approach stories such as the text message to the hotline.

It'll be very fascinating viewing the next few weeks as due to recent events public sentiment is changing, especially on Voss, and do wonder if this will force Wrights hands to hold off (which I suspect he will) doing what a lot thought was a fait acompli a few weeks ago till next year if required.

 

[El Topo]

The Haynes pick up has been the best thing (who would've said this at round 3) we've done for a while in terms of recruitment. As a 33 year old who's been in a different environment it clearly shows how he takes his footy, he may only have 1-2 years left but I'm at the point for our mini reset next year we consider putting him and Newman in our leadership group for the year.

We'd be in a very different place if we'd made a few Haynes picks at the start of the 'rebuild'

 

[El Topo]

What is it with the media all of a sudden supporting us. Fox feels like they were pushing the narrative to retain Voss, that Cripps was awesome last night (he was better than he's been this year, but not 22-24 Cripps). They were even putting themselves down for how they approach stories such as the text message to the hotline.

It'll be very fascinating viewing the next few weeks as due to recent events public sentiment is changing, especially on Voss, and do wonder if this will force Wrights hands to hold off (which I suspect he will) doing what a lot thought was a fait acompli a few weeks ago till next year if required.

Nothing a final round loss to the bombres won't fix

 

[jj1978]

We'd be in a very different place if we'd made a few Haynes picks at the start of the 'rebuild'

Agree think it would be prudent we go for a few more 30-ish players from successful clubs over the next couple who still have a good 40-50 games to give.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Away in Fiji for a week with the family so didn't watch the game.

Told my 7 year old son the scores this morning and his response was "oh that's not too bad"

Is that what we've become again so quickly.

A 40 point loss is considered not too bad.

Depressing state of affairs for Carlton and our passionate supporters

 

[sherb]

I'm not a student of lists, game plans, structure etc, so I won't comment on those and related aspects.

But - even for a fossil like me, the continued skill errors - by hand, by foot and kicking at goal - were inexcusable and frankly did my head in. These guy are supposed to be elite and their skill level should be equally so, or at least approaching that, imo.

I saw skill errors last night that I'd be cranky with if they were committed by my local senior grade side playing in the Sydney AFL Div 2.

I just don't get why the coaching staff aren't addressing this aspect of our side. It's not as if it isn't fixable. It's as if player development, at this most basic level, isn't a thing at Carlton.

 

[LFTWNG11]

Not that I read every page but Cerra really flies under the radar for criticism. He is proving to be a genuine bust. His job is to be the clean possession midfielder but he can’t kick or handball to advantage, which is made the worst by him being soft.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Yep. The boys today did what was asked. That’s the best they have tried in 4 weeks. Problem is the structures and setups don’t assist them.
How many times were we able to kick to clear lead or even clear space into our F50 compared to Brisbane?
How many times were we able to clear our D50 with some clear space, compared to Brisbane? Our kickin setups are all = to go long.
How many times did we get a clear handball through the middle of the ground to open players outside the contest? Tonight at the very least, there was some kind of an attempt but no setup and structure or team knowledge.
It’s just too hard for us compared to our opposition.

Excellent post.
What a stark contrast between 2 teams - one was well-drilled and entirely methodical, and the other was Carlton, where you could see the idea and watch it fail before your eyes as a team of headless chooks blindly ran around all over the shop with no cohesion.

We never lead at the ball carrier. McGovern was the only person that I recognised charging from the goal square to the 50 and marking on a lead in the 4th quarter. The Lions forwards had a running jump at every forward entry - even the shit ones that sat high in the air and floated into their F50. It was diabolical.

It's not all on Voss, after 7 years the football department has no solid standards and structure - Lloyd needs to go.
After 4 years, the coaches aren't able to put together an effective plan and train their players to perform, even with 2x Coleman medalists, a dual Brownlow medalist, and numerous all-Australians and top 20 picks - all AFL match day and line coaches need to go.

 

[Blue since 72]

Comedy capers team execution against a super hot Brisbane outfit looking for a back to back flags.

I wonder how SOJ/ Newan, McKay, Walsh felt looking on at the comedy capers skill execution that was on display last night?

Carroll/Cowan/HOF and even Moir looked like decent young developing players.

Charlie tried hard and missed goals - again.
Pittonet was up for it - TDK is a now a limp running joke - must be unfit yeah?
McGovern is bi-polar one minute he does something awesome - the next he costs a goal out of a regulation brain fart.
Williams tried hard and added some leg speed to CBB a pity he has been injured every second week.
Fantasia all class break glass body - bye bye.
Cripps wasnt sick - but cant kick and is as guilty as anyone else making fundamental errors - his handballing has regressed big time.
Cerra was as bad as the worst kicks on ground for Carlton - so out of form...
O Hollands isnt an answer to any HBF question I would care to ask- play him on a wing where his skill execiution wont be as noticeably costly and his decision making isnt as tested as open field play
Docherty - see McGovern quote.
Weitering wasnt awful.
Motlop is a C grade mid with a D grade footy brain - no just no
Durdin is as bad as Motlop - only worse.
Fogarty had a shocker - again bye bye
Cincotta absolutely towelled by whoever he is was supposed to be shutting down VFL mate

Brisbane too much class.

Effort was there though cant deny that - but woweee talk about low skill killing you week in week out - and no Charlie goals to lift the team.

Onwards and upwards!

Keep the Voss bagging going- makes for funny reading - me personally I blame the tea person.

Well said.

Stats from last night with the biggest differential:

Uncontested possessions: C 196, B 260
Disposal efficiency: C 69.8 B 76.8
Clangers: C 62 B 53
Tackles inside 50: C 8 B 20
Contested possessions: C 144 B 113
Stoppage clearances: C 27 B 17

I'd add in shocking shots on goal thereby ensuring little to no scoreboard pressure on the opposition.

Unfortunately the first four go directly to how the best teams are playing the game, the bottom two is how Carlton play.

We can win the ball we're just no good at using it.

So Voss can say the team is playing "our way" but outside of the contest we can't run (most notably when we don't have the ball), we can't dispose of the ball effectively and we can't lock the ball in our forward half. It wouldn't be a stretch to suggest these are the layers to his game style that he has talked about in the past but we don't seem to have the cattle to do it.

How many times do we see one of our players **** up a handball, kick or shot on goal and the tv cuts to Voss and while he's not smashing phones the frustration on his face is obvious.

You could make a case for we have too many at the contest due to the game style so we don't have enough on the outside to generate run and carry and I don't disagree but I also saw numerous players with the ball in hand in space making the wrong decisions and butchering their kicks.

Game style combined with a lack of cattle with the right attributes results in us not being that good.

Voss may well go but the list needs serious scrutiny too.

 

[Stamos]

He said that but skills have dropped off in recent weeks along with the general falling apart of basically everything else.
This isn't about what they did or didn't do over Christmas.

Although if we'd trained properly over the preseason, maybe our standards would have been higher across the season, won more games, things gone very differently...

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Give them a positive for effort but that's about it, Pitto was good. Think its safe to say that TDK is now off. Still cannot understand our complete lack of basic skills, handpasses missing targets or landing at the feet of the receiver, lack of any sort of cohesion in passages of play, field kicking. What do they do at training?? Boggles the mind.

 

[RPCB]

They scored 75 points from turnover last night.

73% of their score came from us coughing up the ball.

Unbelievably deplorable.

Fear not.

Players like TDK are going to still be selected next week.

 

[RPCB]

Give them a positive for effort but that's about it, Pitto was good. Think its safe to say that TDK is now off. Still cannot understand our complete lack of basic skills, handpasses missing targets or landing at the feet of the receiver, lack of any sort of cohesion in passages of play, field kicking. What do they do at training?? Boggles the mind.

Yep. He’s checked out and ironically, if he choose to go to St Kilda and they continue to be shit for the next several years, TDK will check out as early as the first year with them.

 

[jj1978]

Not that I read every page but Cerra really flies under the radar for criticism. He is proving to be a genuine bust. His job is to be the clean possession midfielder but he can’t kick or handball to advantage, which is made the worst by him being soft.

And now it looks like his hammies have been replaced with metal cable, he can't seem to run properly.

 

[WyntersGame_]

Just checked the Coleman medal race. Jeremy Cameron is well ahead on 52 goals. Next best is 42 goals. Charlie has 27. What the hell happened?

I genuinely believe Charlie performs at his best when Harry is in the forward line. Harry sacrifices a lot of his own game to allow the "Charlie show" to flourish.

When Charlie is left to be the sole focal point, he tends to get caught up in wrestling with defenders and becomes frustrated by the consistent intercept marking. That constant attention wears him down, and as games progress, you can visibly see his effort drop due to that frustration.

In my view, Harry is actually more important to the team's structure than Charlie. We’ve seen Harry win a Coleman Medal when he was the main target up forward, so we know he can carry that role solo. On the other hand, Charlie
thrives when he has a foil, someone else drawing defenders and allowing him more freedom. Charlie brings flair and X-factor moments, but Harry does the hard, selfless work that often goes unnoticed. And when he's not sacrificing for Charlie, Harry is still capable of delivering as a forward.

Right now, Charlie’s also clearly out of form with his goal-kicking. He seems rushed and is forcing his shots, which has led to a few selfish moments. While Charlie isn’t typically a selfish player, he usually tries to bring teammates into the game, his recent form suggests he’s pressing too hard to make things happen.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Although if we'd trained properly over the preseason, maybe our standards would have been higher across the season, won more games, things gone very differently...

We could say that about various aspects of our game.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Have to agree with those who believe Brisbane were in second gear most of the night. I think the commentators knew this as well but were pumping up how great Brisbane were apparently playing to try and politely gloss over how awful we are.

You honestly watched that game last night and thought "the Lions are just cruising here"?

On average the lions lay 55 tackles a game this year - last night they laid 69 (25% up), they lay 11.5 tackles inside 50 on average - last night they laid 20 (74% up), they average 72.8% DE and last night they went at 77% - they were elite last night and would have beaten anyone in the comp IMO

 

[haveago]

I've completely lost interest in watching these efforts. Has Charlie just simply given up?

If nothing else, Charlie is trying his guts out.
His efforts in the last few weeks have been outstanding and I for one appreciate his efforts.
Plugger Lockett or Jason Dunstall would struggle in our forward line at present with our horrendous kicks coming in.

Charlie not kicking goals has alot to do with him having to get up the ground and compete which he is doing manfully and single handedly.

When he does kick his next if I hear Bronx cheers like TDK got last night then our supporters would have reached an all-time low and should be ashamed .
We need to be better than that.

 

[Blue since 72]

And now it looks like his hammies have been replaced with metal cable, he can't seem to run properly.

He was slow to start with but has got even slower. It's most obvious when he has to chase.

 

[Matty411]

Genuine question I'd have for the MC/club:

If we don't lose anything in 'value' or potential compo for TDK leaving; and we're not likely to make finals; AND he's not performing well at the moment... why don't we drop Tom?

 

[SurreyBlue]

You honestly watched that game last night and thought "the Lions are just cruising here"?

On average the lions lay 55 tackles a game this year - last night they laid 69 (25% up), they lay 11.5 tackles inside 50 on average - last night they laid 20 (74% up), they average 72.8% DE and last night they went at 77% - they were elite last night and would have beaten anyone in the comp IMO

Agree. The Lions were red hot last night on pressure all over the ground. They gave our midfield no time or space. Thought it was one of the Lions best pressure games so far this year.

 

[JustaBattler]

Motlop had 17 possessions, 5 clearances, 4 tackles and was involved in 25% of our scores - but whip away I suppose.

I dont want him getting possession - he makes horrible decisions - 90% of the time. He needs a lot of work on the basics and also a lot of work to develop some decent decision making and basic skills and awareness....durdin the same- Fogarty has a footy brain and can lay a tackle- but by jingo - he cant kick to save his life - and bad kciking is bad football.

So many parts of the team are so weak and brittle that no one can actually see a 'game plan' except for trying to win a contested football and play zone defense which good teams pick apart because basically too many players havent got the leg speed to cover and actually play zone defense.

Teh iuncontesrted mark acoount against Carlton week in week out - shouts loudly ot this...

and yes Voss's defense first mantra wears thin if you cant do anythign with teh ball once you get because everythign breaks down by the second or third attempted possession and execution...

this stuff is pretty much uncoachable rubbish we are seeing - btw- Motlop was just ine of many examples I posted it is a theme.

 

[BlueJet]

Obviously disappointed with the loss but the Lions are a class side & they're capable of cutting up most sides.

I've been more critical of Charlie than most but I liked him leading up the wings to provide a contest - which proves that he is capable.

If he can continue to work to provide a target instead of reverting to the static target of the last few years, we'll be a lot more dangerous & less predictable going forward. I couldn't give a shit about Coleman's. I want a spread of goal kickers and with H, C, Moir &/or Kemp we might be finally starting to get there if we can blend them together appropriately & improve our ball use. With Charlie working further up the ground, players had to honour other targets. Bronx cheers

There was some promise shown by some of the younger fellas too which is good.
They were caught a few times but I like that Young & Carroll try to take the game on, they'll tidy things up if they're able to adjust to the speed of senior footy.
His finishing could do with some improvement but I liked how regularly Moir was getting into dangerous spots.
HOF - quite raw but a bit to work with.

We don't need a team of superstars, we do need more Haynes & Hewett types. Players you can trust to impact a contest, players that make good decisions.