Raves..

[Michele]

Users of ILLEGAL drugs can make all the excuses in the world, but it doens't change the FACT that drugs are drugs.

If a government or society had forseen the damage cigarettes/nicotine would do to indivduals, do you honestly believe that cigarettes would have been made legal?

Years ago, smoking a cigarette was seen as "glamorous". Now, the Government has banned any type of advertising.
Cigarettes do NOT fry your brain, do NOT cause hallucenations, and you don't need a day or two to "come down". Cigarettes however, do cause many other problems to the individual - cancer No.1. Watching someone gasp for breath, caused by throat cancer and the horrrible pain associated is not a nice way to die.

If you truly believe you can stop smoking "anytime you want", why was it only for 4 months. Everyone who smoke says "Oh I can give up whenever I want to, but I enjoy (cigarettes).

Years ago, Marjiuana was considered a "soft drug" and yet because of further studies, now is classed as a harmful drug.

Pro drug users use stats - as well as Dan - to suit their particular argument.
- "3/4 of the population on drugs". Er, no not unless caffeine alcohol and cigarettes a re included.
- "I can give up anytime I like." An illusion. I don't think so!
- "I'm not hurting anyone." Drug-driving, pedestrians unable to gauge distance (admitted by a poster), days off work, uni, school. Stealing, burgs, begging, all to pay for a habit.
- "But they make me feel sooooo good". Yes, but what about 'physical' damage drugs do your body, you know things like heart (an essential for life), liver and brain!
- "They don't change personalities." Too much/lack of NATURAL chemicals, DO change a personality, so why wouldn't a maufactured chemical do the same thing.
- "I'm lucky, I don't have an addictive personality". Ummm, look at qualitative research.

Drugs are drugs - FACT

I can empathsise with Bee, I have been robbed 3 times - each one for a different reason. Professional, kids and addicts. To come home and find your personal belongings strewn all over the place, is totally sickening, To watch your very young son, sob his heart out because those morons took some of his possessions is heart-wrenching.

For those who disbelieve Bee's post on crime stats, you are wrong and she - unfortunately - is correct. Robberies, burgs and personal crime is way up and mostly due to addicts needing money. No rights, no responsibilities.

Michele

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
Well its not bloody likely that you would die from one pill, or one line of speed.

Oh, we have quality control on E's and speed now do we?

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Michele
If a government or society had forseen the damage cigarettes/nicotine would do to indivduals, do you honestly believe that cigarettes would have been made legal?

Yes, as the big tobacco growers in the States who wielded enormous political influence at thetime wouldn't have given two hoots about it.

Do you know why hemp was outlawed? Because the cotton growers were concerned that it would put them out of business. It had nothing to do with ethics but PROFIT!

- "3/4 of the population on drugs". Er, no not unless caffeine alcohol and cigarettes a re included.

Well, just to play devils advocate, they are

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Michele

If you truly believe you can stop smoking "anytime you want", why was it only for 4 months. Everyone who smoke says "Oh I can give up whenever I want to, but I enjoy (cigarettes).

Err, that was 5 months ago....i quit for 4 months, stupidly had a couple on a night out and felt terribly ill for the rest of the night. Most likely i will never have a cigarette again.

Pro drug users use stats - as well as Dan - to suit their particular argument.
- "3/4 of the population on drugs". Er, no not unless caffeine alcohol and cigarettes a re included.

HAVE TRIED drugs not ON drugs.

- "I can give up anytime I like." An illusion. I don't think so!

how the heck would you know?? Do you know me?? Do you know what im like?? No. Dont assume things.....just because you may not be strong willed doesnt mean everyone is. Now i understand why most of bigfooty ignores you. You are clueless!

- "I'm not hurting anyone." Drug-driving, pedestrians unable to gauge distance (admitted by a poster), days off work, uni, school. Stealing, burgs, begging, all to pay for a habit.

Yes of course, EVERYONE that does drugs, begs, steals and burgles to pay for the habit. Everyone who does drugs misses plenty of days of work, uni, school...everyone who does drugs also drives. Yur a tool!!
Having an E, at a rave, on a paddock somewhere is harmless...doing it at yur own home with a mate or two is harmless.

- "They don't change personalities." Too much/lack of NATURAL chemicals, DO change a personality, so why wouldn't a maufactured chemical do the same thing.

Only if you have too much of this chemical will it change a personality. ONE pill will not suddenly give you a split personality.

- "I'm lucky, I don't have an addictive personality". Ummm, look at qualitative research.

umm, you dont know me so how would you know?? Research can come up with anything it likes...often avoids the TRUE facts, like the facts that are out about most drugs.

Youve done a real good job of generalising there Michele. Such a pity you really dont have much of a clue at all.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Dave


Oh, we have quality control on E's and speed now do we?

Go on then dave, if you are so full of knowlege, tell me how many people have died from E's and speed?

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
Go on then dave, if you are so full of knowlege, tell me how many people have died from E's and speed?

Can I take your attempted redirection as an admission that there isn't quality control then?

I don't know how many people have died from E's or speed, just as you don't know how many people have died from alcohol or tobacco. I DO know that people HAVE died from taking just one bad E and that those who manufacture these drugs aren't all that particular about what goes into them or about the sterility of the equipment they use, which makes them far more dangerous than a one off ciggy or drink.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Dave

I don't know how many people have died from E's or speed, just as you don't know how many people have died from alcohol or tobacco. I DO know that people HAVE died from taking just one bad E and that those who manufacture these drugs aren't all that particular about what goes into them or about the sterility of the equipment they use, which makes them far more dangerous than a one off ciggy or drink.

I would say that 90-95% of all Ecstacy floating around Australia at the moment was made in Europe....to be exact in and around Amsterdam (they can do anything there really). I would also say the majority of these pills are made by 'Dodgy' Pharmacists looking for a bit of extra money on the side. They can easily create it, have complete access to what goes in it etc.
This is completly different to Speed and Meth which quite a lot comes from backyards.
Dealers do not make the drugs....they only on sell the drugs. It is highly doubtful that these dealers would have any clue what is in each specific pill...in fact i know most of these dealers would have no clue whats in these pills. Thats why some dealers bullsh!!t and say 'oh its cut with heroin and thats what the little speckles are'. If it was cut with heroin or coke then one pill would be $25-$30 more expensive than what it is. The people that make it would LOSE a lot of money which is why they use something relatievly cheap like caffeine or ephadrine (sp?).

So unless you ring around every chemist in europe, you really wont know whats going into these pills.

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by Macca19


... So unless you ring around every chemist in europe, you really wont know whats going into these pills.

Sounds like another good reason not to use them.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Dave


Can I take your attempted redirection as an admission that there isn't quality control then?

I don't know how many people have died from E's or speed, just as you don't know how many people have died from alcohol or tobacco. I DO know that people HAVE died from taking just one bad E and that those who manufacture these drugs aren't all that particular about what goes into them or about the sterility of the equipment they use, which makes them far more dangerous than a one off ciggy or drink.

Of course there isn't quality control. I didn't think I needed to spell that out.

If you read my previous post's i said that people die from alcohol and tobacco. I didn't say one drink and not one smoke. Just like people do die from Speed and E's, i'm not denying that. However, compare the amount of people that drink excessively and die, the people that smoke excessively and die (cancer & other related diseases) and people that die from E and Speed. The amount from E and speed is negligible.

(i am actually looking for some facts on the internet that prove this..)

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Macca19
So unless you ring around every chemist in europe, you really wont know whats going into these pills.

Neither would you. I'd be extremely dubious about taking something manufactured under those circumstances.

I may not know what goes into it, but I DO know there was a young woman who died here last year or the year before from a "bad E".

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Dave


Neither would you. I'd be extremely dubious about taking something manufactured under those circumstances.

I may not know what goes into it, but I DO know there was a young woman who died here last year or the year before from a "bad E".

Most likely an MDA pill which is very dangerous, and why people should test their pills first or at least look up the type on the internet or something

 

[elt]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
i am actually looking for some facts on the internet that prove this..

Bwahahaha. That is one of the funniest things I've read on this thread.

 

[Michele]

Macca,

Get off your/high defensive horse.

No where in the post did I use your name. It was the phrase "I went off ciigarettes cold turkey for 4 months" that I remembered and I felt was more important, not who said it.

If you asked every person who smokes - that is the stock reply - "I can give it up whenever I choose, but I enjoy it."
Very easy to say for many people, very hard to put into practice.
For a few, cold turkey works and for others it is bloody hard work. Cigarettes are an addiction.

Every New Year's eve, smokers make a New Year's resolution that they will give up smoking - not many keep to it.

The same response is given about drugs - "I'll aways be in control, they will never control me.

Well if both of these general respones are correct, why is there a massive advertising blitz on the hazards of smoking and other drugs.

And yes, my post was general, it was not aimed at any specific indivdual, but at the sheer stupidity of taking drugs and then the justification.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Dave


Neither would you. I'd be extremely dubious about taking something manufactured under those circumstances.

I may not know what goes into it, but I DO know there was a young woman who died here last year or the year before from a "bad E".

"A" young woman. Compared to the 400 or so heroin deaths per year. Compared to the 1000+ alcohol related deaths per year.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
Of course there isn't quality control. I didn't think I needed to spell that out.

So how do you know what goes into the pills?

If you read my previous post's i said that people die from alcohol and tobacco. I didn't say one drink and not one smoke.

I know, the point I was making was, what's more dangerous, something that can kill you with one hit, or something that requires years of abuse or a sustained binge?

The amount from E and speed is negligible.

And would it remain that negligible if legalised? Perhaps it's just the paternal instict coming out in me, but this is sort of where I'm coming from. Drugs like E's etc are youngs people's play things and it's the young that they usually kill. People who die from alcoholism and cigarettes, drink drivers and their victims aside, are usually older. If my kids die from cancer or liver failure after I'm dead I wont know about it, but if they died at a rave from a sus eccie it'd kill me, so I'm not all that keen on them. I'll also be bloody hammering my son when he gets to driving age about the dangers of drink driving.

(i am actually looking for some facts on the internet that prove this..)

Let us know what tyou find, I'd be interested.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
"A" young woman. Compared to the 400 or so heroin deaths per year. Compared to the 1000+ alcohol related deaths per year.

I didn't say she as the only one. And I'm not a big rap for Heroin either.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Dave


So how do you know what goes into the pills?

You can buy testers

Most common one would be the 'EZ Test'. It gives you a fair indication of what is in the pill.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Macca19
You can buy testers

From whom? What are their credentials?

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy


Anyone who is under the influence of alcohol or drugs is being irresponsible. No matter how you explain it.

Did you hear yourself in this?

Drugs is drugs is drugs.....

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Dave


From whom? What are their credentials?

EZ-Test

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Grendel
Drugs is drugs is drugs.....

I'll drink to that. Hic.

 

[Sydneyfan]

Very interesting thread, a lot of good points been made on the topic of drugs.

I, myself, am fairly cautious by nature and for the most part have decided to avoid illicit drugs for fear of potential damage my use may cause. I don't have too many problems with people using illicit drugs as long as they don't harm anyone else and are fully aware of the consequences/risks potentially involved in drug use.

I've believed for a long time that marijuana is a damaging drug which is under estimated by many people. I've known many people (including several friends) who have experienced dramatic changes in their personality (more moody/depressed/aggressive) during periods where they were extensively using marijuana. Luckily for my mates who extensively used pot in the past and experienced adverse reactions to it, most rarely or occassionally use it now and don't seem to suffer ongoing behavioural problems as a result of it. I've tried it before though it didn't work for me, it just made me hungry and paranoid!

Being a bit of a prude and cautious by nature, I don't like the fact that with most (if not all) illicit drugs you are not 100% certain of what it is that you are allowing into your body. I agree that alcohol is a harmful drug which does cause a great deal of pain throughout society but I'm willing to take that risk and drink since I know exactly who made my alcoholic beverage (eg. CUB) and what percentage of alcohol is in my beer.

Drugs like Ecstasy worry me due to the fact that you're not 100% certain of what ingredients are in each particular tablet and how it is going to affect me. Sure, you can have a fair idea of what's in it but you can't be certain. Sure, you can take all the precautions to ensure that you responsibly take the drug but you are never sure what may happen since you aren't certain of what's in the tablet. For the record, I once took an E off a friend mainly out of curiosity but it seemed to have no effect on me, I had been drinking as well that night so maybe that was something to do with it! I'm worried that since you don't know what's in the drug what's to stop some wacko deliberately lacing E's or other drugs with lethal ingredients to cause large scale illness or deaths, or that a drug maker will add ingredients which inadvertedly adversely affect you or other users. It's a risk I'm not willing to take but if other people are willing to take those risks, fair enough!

I guess my point is that it is your body and you can do what you like, as long as you're aware of the consequences and don't harm yourself or anyone else in the process.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Can't get any info from Australian Bureau of Stats. Anyone got any ideas??

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Grendel


Did you hear yourself in this?

Drugs is drugs is drugs.....

Grendel, go back and have a look at the context it was used in.

Sorry if i didn't spell it out for you.

I was referring to driving while under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

 

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
Can't get any info from Australian Bureau of Stats. Anyone got any ideas??

I don't think the last Census was long enough, so I think we should have a whole section devoted to drugs.

"How many times have you had ecstasy?"
"How many times have you felt long term brain damage taking place?"
"How many times have you had, or seen people have a 'bad' E?"
"How many times have you died?"

That sorta stuff. Then we can argue the percentages!