Raves..

[evade28]

if people want to use drugs thats fine, providing it affects no one else. the problem with this is it usually does affect others.

drink driving is one of the most irresponsible things you can do. if you kill someone there are so many other people who are affected by this. the image of innocent people smashed up in a car because a drunken driver crashed into them is not an easy one to erase from your mind. whether you know them or not its still not an easy thing to forget. and all this happens just bcos one stupid person decided to drive under the influence.

alcohol will never be banned. one, the government makes too much money off it, and two we all know what happened last time they tried prohibition.

a lot of people make the assumption that because alcohol is legal its ok to binge, when its not.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by FIGJAM

That sorta stuff. Then we can argue the percentages!

These are the only figures i could find so far..
uk drug deaths

"Getting reliable statistics seems to be quite a challenge, as they rarely describe their criteria for drug deaths. However, we hope that these figures will prove useful as a reference.


Sources: Social Trends, pub. Office of National Statistics, based on research from the Institute for the Study of Drug Dependence. These figures cover 1994-6, and are reproduced as released by the ONS. 1999


UK drug death figures: deaths per annum
Alcohol 4,325
Tobacco 120,000
The Herb 1
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts 7
Viagra 7
Ecstasy 4"

These figures are from 1995, but i would say drug awareness as increased as well as use, so these may be fairly close to the current figures.

If you want to check it out:
http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugdeath.html

 

[M29]

I think you should all watch "A Reqium for a Dream" and look at how that sorta **** ****s up peoples lives.

 

[M29]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy


These figures are from 1995, but i would say drug awareness as increased as well as use, so these may be fairly close to the current figures.

Bull ****ing ****! You say that but look at the "increase" in two years with these groups! Herion OD's doubled and these amphetamin users must have been drug aware.

How can you say these would be anything near "current figures"?! Especially with statistics almost ten years old.

Drug deaths: 1994 - 1996
Methadone 259 - 357
Heroin 90 - 187
Amphetamin 20 - 29

 

[glenferrie boy]

m29, i wasn't referring to Heroin related deaths.

Have a look at this page:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

I'm sure it will show you how much of a difference there is between alcohol, tobacco and pills,speed & coke.

 

[M29]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
m29, i wasn't referring to Heroin related deaths.

What about those amphetamine figures?

Have a look at this page:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

I'm sure it will show you how much of a difference there is between alcohol, tobacco and pills,speed & coke.

Again, Average 1990-1994, old figures.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by M29


What about those amphetamine figures?



Again, Average 1990-1994, old figures.

All Licit & Illicit Drug-Induced Deaths - 1998 figures.

Anyway, its not about getting the correct facts. Its about showing the proportion of deaths from alcohol and tobacco compared to "recreational" drugs.

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy


Grendel, go back and have a look at the context it was used in.

Sorry if i didn't spell it out for you.

I was referring to driving while under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Fine, im using the same context, just extrapolating it out a little.

Cant have my E and eat it too.....

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Grendel


Fine, im using the same context, just extrapolating it out a little.

Cant have my E and eat it too.....

You could aways plug it or snort it?

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by glenferrie boy
m29, i wasn't referring to Heroin related deaths.

Have a look at this page:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm

I'm sure it will show you how much of a difference there is between alcohol, tobacco and pills,speed & coke.

That's all very well but 90% of the adult population drink alcohol

Whereas probably only 10% would do coke and other such drugs

This is just a guess but that puts the figures into proportion.

And you don't die from one drink or one smoke but you can die from one bad hit of drugs.

Anyway, people can take there own risks and its up to them.

However, if it takes someone two days to come down off an E induced high or whatever, will that not affect everyone around them for two days????

Also, you can have one beer and show no noticeable signs of change, but if you have one E, doesn't this have a significant affect on your behaviour.

I have never taken illegal drugs, and I have never smoked a cigarette

One Vice is enough for me - ALCOHOL and plenty of it causes me enough problems!!!

Interesting debate though.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Jars, you can die from ONE drink. A lethal dose of alcohol and nicotine is just as lethal as a lethal dose of illicit drugs and one drink/hit may be all it takes.
You should also know that the amount of people doing illicit drugs is way over 10%. Figures off the top of your head..........come on Jars you know that's not the way.

 

[evade28]

Cant have my E and eat it too.....

why would you want it if you cant eat it?? lol

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Jars, you can die from ONE drink. A lethal dose of alcohol and nicotine is just as lethal as a lethal dose of illicit drugs and one drink/hit may be all it takes.
You should also know that the amount of people doing illicit drugs is way over 10%. Figures off the top of your head..........come on Jars you know that's not the way.

But I dont drink Jim Beam!

How many times have people died from one drink?? Off the top of your head.

You reckon more than 10% of people use cocaine or ecstacy?

Certainly its higher for Mary Jane but I wouldn't have thought so for the so called "harder" drugs ( I may be naive though).

Perhaps a lot more than that have tried harder drugs but probbly not much more would use them on a semi regular basis.

Perhaps Dan has stats on this?????? I doubt it.

 

[glenferrie boy]

Originally posted by Jars458


But I dont drink Jim Beam!

How many times have people died from one drink?? Off the top of your head.

You reckon more than 10% of people use cocaine or ecstacy?

Certainly its higher for Mary Jane but I wouldn't have thought so for the so called "harder" drugs ( I may be naive though).

Perhaps a lot more than that have tried harder drugs but probbly not much more would use them on a semi regular basis.

Perhaps Dan has stats on this?????? I doubt it.

Jars, how many people have died from from 1 pill or 1 line of speed?? off the top of your head. I would say it would be single figures in Australia (off the top of my head).

I would suggest that 10% of people - at least - use coke or e on an occasional basis for people in between 18 - 30. I would suggest an even higher figure but it would only be a guess.

Jars, take me for example. I have associated with about 40 friends over the last two years. I cannot name one person out of this group that has not tried harder drugs, and alot of these people are private school stiffs with perfect upbringing, some are westies, some are just your average "jo". My point being, all these people have tried them, but only about 10-15 use them occasionally/frequently.

So when you are talking about people who use them, it could be around 10-20%, but people who have tried them would be much, much higher.

 

[Westy_Boy]

Originally posted by mandy5


Oh for GODS SAKE!!!! Did you SEE the wink at the end of my comment?

Guess that makes it ok then. You won't mind when the bloke you're buying this shlt off comes over to your place and offers your kid some ... but winks because he's "joking".

When your daughter hits whatever age you started experimenting, will you have any qualms about her going a few lines? Since you're so free and liberal, you'll probably do it with her, yeah? Hey, go a few cones too ... get off your face on some H ... you know, real mother - daughter bonding type stuff.

 

[Rohan_]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy


When your daughter hits whatever age you started experimenting, will you have any qualms about her going a few lines? Since you're so free and liberal, you'll probably do it with her, yeah? Hey, go a few cones too ... get off your face on some H ... you know, real mother - daughter bonding type stuff.

Me thinks you are a bit paranoid.

I was raised by relatively stable, catholic and supportive parents and they had no issues when I told them I had drugs.

They grew up in the 60's where drug use was the norm. Although drugs aren't good for you, at least they knew my situation: people experiment.

 

[Westy_Boy]

Good for you, Rohan.

What will you do when your kid comes home and says "hey Dad, me and my mates just had a hit of heroin ... we're just experimenting ... just like you did (and told us about) in the 90's" ?

 

[Rohan_]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy
Good for you, Rohan.

What will you do when your kid comes home and says "hey Dad, me and my mates just had a hit of heroin ... we're just experimenting ... just like you did (and told us about) in the 90's" ?

Me having a Billy Lid? No thanks.

I would be upset that they used heroin but I would hope I raised them in a way that they knew the side effects of drug use.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy
Good for you, Rohan.

What will you do when your kid comes home and says "hey Dad, me and my mates just had a hit of heroin ... we're just experimenting ... just like you did (and told us about) in the 90's" ?

That is just another typical ignorant comment, the likes of which have been posted dozens of times previously by other ignorant people all throughout this thread.

All drug users turn into heroin addicts. Whatever you want to believe.

Either you guys start including alcohol & tobacco users amongst the "drug users" of this world, or your opinions are worth nothing to any of us, as treating alcohol/tobacco users differently to "drug" users is only showing how little clue you all have when it comes to this topic.

There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between a person who smokes a joint, and somebody who enjoys a drink.

You people have grown up with alcohol and tobacco being accepted, yet you screw your nose up whenever anybody mentions the word "drugs", even though most (if not all?) of you:

a) have no idea about them

b) believe everything the mainstream media tells you about them

c) have never tried any in your life, (your choice - i have no problem with that) and

d) refuse to believe that people are capable of using them responsibly, despite the FACT that most drug users DO use them responsibly.

And on the subject of the media, isn't it funny how there's a "bad ecstacy" alert every year at the start of summer? I have never had a bad pill in my life (although i've only had one pill in the past 2 years). Why haven't i come across a bad pill? Because i don't buy them at clubs from people i've never met for a start. (surefire way to get a bad pill.....they cruise from club to club, offload their crap, and then getting out and move to the next place.)

Drug users know the risks. And the majority of them (not all of them) have done their research - they know a lot more than all the people in here who have probably never even seen an ecstacy pill first hand. That's not to say there are NO risks - but by being cautious and knowing the safety measures, the risk becomes almost non existant.

I've thrown up once on an ecstacy pill.

How many times have people in here thrown up after they've drunk too much alcohol i wonder....?


To all the people who are knocking drugs and their users, go out and do some research. Go to a rave - talk to some people. Read some books. Open your mind a little. Ask yourself how sending people to jail for having a bit of fun is helping society.

My mother knows of every drug i've tried. She doesn't neccasarily approve, but she knows me. She knows other people who use drugs responsibly. Other people just like TigerTank. And Bee. And Dave. (etc) My mother has also never smoked a cigarette in her life, or taken any kind of drug. (other than the very occasional glass of wine with her dinner)

I'm sure glad she's not as closed minded as some of you people in here. If she was, perhaps i might have tried heroin? After all, kids are always going to do what you tell them not to do, correct?

My parents spoke to me about drugs when i was very young. Yes - they told me to keep away from heroin. But they never ever told me NOT to smoke Marijuana. They never ever told me NOT to drink, or NOT to have a line of coke. I was always told when i was in my teens - "you can have a drink or two at your mates parties, but no smoking weed until you're 18."

They told me the TRUTH rather than bullshhit me with "drugs is drugs is drugs - stay away!!" which would only have made me curious about ALL drugs, without knowing the true differences between heroin and say, marijuana.

As a result, i was never curious about heroin, but i was curious about most of the others.

I knew the difference between marijuana and heroin when i was very young, and i'm very grateful of that fact. Yet it seems that some people in here STILL don't know the difference! So far, all we've been told by those people are things like "if you rob my house i'll shoot you" and "say it won't happen to you" and "drugs is drugs is drugs" etc etc etc by people who i would have thought would have known the differences between different drugs. Obviously not.


There's always going to be people who abuse drugs (alcohol included) - they're the ones you see living on the streets or in shhitholes in some dodgy run down house in a cheap crappy heroin area (like one of my best friends from high school)

You know the funny thing - when he told me 2 years ago that he had smoked heroin a few times, i went off my head at him. I guaranteed him that within 3 or 4 months, he'd be injecting. I knew what type of person he was - addicted to pot all throughout school for a start. "Oh no! I hate needles" he replied.

"Ah, but will you still hate needles when you realise that smoking it is not doing enough for you anymore"?" I asked him.

Anyway, next time i saw him - about 4 months later - he was basically a junkie.

HE was someone who should never have gone near drugs. God knows where he is now. I haven't seen him for over a year. (last i heard, he was hassling people for money at Flinders St station.)

And of course, since i pop the occasional E, or smoke the (slightly more regular) joint, i guess that means i'm doomed as well according to all the ignorant people in here. Most of whom have NO KNOWLEDGE OF DRUGS WHATSOEVER, whether it be first hand experience, or reading up on the subject at their local library etc.

But they all like to think they know everything.

I suppose they'd like to come and tell me how to do my job? Perhaps if they knew what i do for a living, and what kind of person i actually am without jumping to conclusions because i've dared to take a few drugs, they might shut up a little and realise that the generalizations they've thrown around in this thread are nothing more than that - pathetic generalizations.

cheers

PS. The one thing i'd love to see would be relaxed marijuana laws. A friend of mine has a fantastic article from The Bulletin about marijuana use in Amsterdam vs the war on drugs in America. I'll borrow it off him next time i see him, and type it out. For those interested (Dave? TigerTank? Bee? Westy Boy? M29? Anyone else who perhaps needs to read up a little so that they can back their opinions up with a little knowledge?) i'll email it to you if you like and you can have a little read.

I can't remember exactly who the guy was they were talking to, (he was a Dutch politician who helped bring about the changes over there) but i remember one thing he said that sums up the entire war on drugs: (which is supposedly building a better society...)

"What we (the Dutch) have realised that the US haven't worked out yet, is that when people go to jail, society has failed."

 

[Rohan_]

Basically the people who totally shun drug useage are not open minded.

I would say a lifetime of regularly drinking alcohol is far worse than an occasional hit of coke or popping of a Dan Meliecki.

It is sure a bad E can prove fatal or hurt your body’s mechanisms but a lifetime of drinking alcohol will cause greater problems to your body and soul.

It is also stupid parenting to totally rule out that kids experiment with all types of stuff that can be harmful.

I would feel that if you have brought your kids up well enough that they would have the thought and understanding to know the side effects of drugs
.

 

[Macca19]

Well said gPhonque!

 

[Mooster7]

As a teenager, I tried this and that. Had a good time. Everyone was doing it. Then it lost its' fascination with me. The people I know from then who are still using "recreational" drugs haven't managed to put much of a life together for themselves. My tax money goes to help support them, feed their children, pay their medical bills. I don't appreciate that.

Our local "free" county hospital is full of drug users and psychs. The psychs are there for drugs, or because they were spawned in families with drug issues. BTW the hospital is free for them, not me. If you have a job and pay your taxes, you have to pay your own health care AND pay for the "free" hospital. Drugs dig alot deeper into the fabric of your society than simply a guy sitting around getting high.

Independence, Missouri has been the number one producer of methamphetamines in the world. Kansas City last year had the second highest number of drink driving fatalities in the US (Dallas was first). I've run fire and ambulance in this area for ten years. I've seen people die from first time drug use. I've seen first time amphetamine users become permanently & partially paralyzed. They all thought drugs couldn't harm them. I've seen X users cook their brains (from fever) and die. Young people all of them.

Drugs suck.

I've seen people suffering from respiratory diseases from smoking cigarettes. Everyone knows some old guy who has been smoking all his life and his healthy. Still, he is a rare fellow. I have treated the rest - the majority. They suffer mightily. I don't mind if people smoke. I'd prefer them to do it outside, and to pay for their own health care when it all eventually goes sour.

That said, I love my German Beer. I may never give up on it. I don't spend my life drunk. I always arrange it so that I never have to drive after I have been drinking. Internal organs spilled on a roadway smell bad. The ones from drunks smell worse. I don't know why, but it is true. Peace,

Mooster

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by Mooster7
As a teenager, I tried this and that. Had a good time. Everyone was doing it. Then it lost its' fascination with me. The people I know from then who are still using "recreational" drugs haven't managed to put much of a life together for themselves. My tax money goes to help support them, feed their children, pay their medical bills. I don't appreciate that.

So does my tax money. (well, comparatively speaking..)

And besides, nearly all of the people i know who use 'recreational' drugs are interesting, intelligent, and successfull people.

Stop generalizing. I'm sure you know people who have used, or use recreational drugs who are successfull people as well. (??) If not, then don't pretend as though they don't exist.

Our local "free" county hospital is full of drug users and psychs.

And alcoholics. (in case you weren't including them in "drug users")

The psychs are there for drugs, or because they were spawned in families with drug issues.

Such as alcohol abuse. (in case you weren't including that in "drug issues")

BTW the hospital is free for them, not me. If you have a job and pay your taxes, you have to pay your own health care AND pay for the "free" hospital. Drugs dig alot deeper into the fabric of your society than simply a guy sitting around getting high.

Another generalization. You're forgetting the fact that the majority of drug users (and one could argue ALL of the responsible ones) ARE PAYING THEIR TAXES AS WELL. You act as though every drug user is an uneducated moron who sits around getting stoned/wasted every day. Stop generalizing!!!!

Independence, Missouri has been the number one producer of methamphetamines in the world. Kansas City last year had the second highest number of drink driving fatalities in the US (Dallas was first). I've run fire and ambulance in this area for ten years. I've seen people die from first time drug use. I've seen first time amphetamine users become permanently & partially paralyzed. They all thought drugs couldn't harm them. I've seen X users cook their brains (from fever) and die. Young people all of them.

Drugs suck.

Then so does alcohol. And cars. And aeroplanes. And cancer. And AIDS. They all suck. They all kill people.

Sure - it's a bit harder to "mis-use" cancer. That is something that can't be prevented. Drug addiction CAN be prevented, so that means the obvious way to fix it is it arrest and jail people for using them.

In that case, let's ban automobiles. They kill more people than drugs.

There are ALWAYS going to be people who mis-use drugs and cars. (and countless other things) But the solution is to EDUCATE people on the dangers, and try to prevent people from MIS-using them.

Jailing innocent harmless people is not the answer.

That said, I love my German Beer. I may never give up on it. I don't spend my life drunk. I always arrange it so that I never have to drive after I have been drinking. Internal organs spilled on a roadway smell bad. The ones from drunks smell worse. I don't know why, but it is true. Peace,

Mooster

Let's ban automobiles and alcohol then!

Either that, or educate them.

Like i said - there's more responsible drug users than irresponsible drug users. Just as there's more responsible drivers than irresponsible drivers. But we don't ban automobiles do we?

cheers

 

[Mooster7]

gPhonque,

My post was more directed toward those who believe there is no danger in drugs, or if there is, the danger is only to the user.

To me, a responsible drug user is someone who is prescribed a medication by his physician and uses that medication as directed.

I include alcoholism with drug abuse.

No, I don't know one single recreational drug user who is successful. Not one. I concede they exist, I just don't know any.
I disagree with you that there are more responsible drug users than drug abusers. You may know several people who have gotten along just fine being weekend party sorts. The true majority are the non drug users.

I know you haven't experienced the "dark side" of it that cops, paramedics and firefighters see. Most of this doesn't end up in the news, and the public barely knows it exists. There ARE statistics of these events, and they are staggering. I read on an earlier post where someone thought these statistics were propaganda. They are not.

A lot of recreational drug users who haven't had problems, haven't had problems - YET.

Banning drugs doesn't equate with banning cars. It equates with banning reckless driving, which makes perfect sense doesn't it? I think you were generalizing too much.

Peace, Mooster

 

[M29]

I still can't see how you guys can take (e's) something that you don't know: a) whats in it b) where it has been made. Do you guys ever think of that? Just curious.