Razor Ray

[The Dodger]

This is a general comment and not one specifically re the HTB against Selwood but I must be the only fan who thinks this rule is a great one - two reasons:

1. The spirit of the game is to "keep the ball in motion" - it is documented in umpiring coaching manuals. Is diving on or dragging the ball underneath you keeping the ball in motion? I would suggest the players sole aim in doing that is to "kill" the ball, deny possession to the opposition and create a stoppage. It is not skilful diving on the ball, I could do that,and
2. If we allowed players to do that and get away with it, we would have 50 ball ups a game and a horrible spectacle.

Think about it - what is the diver trying to do?

I dont think that there is anything wrong with the reason for the rule, it is just the modern interpretation of it. It is about stopping 1 player diving on the ball and keeping it in. But why does it not punish the 2nd player who dives in fights to get a hand on it and then tries to just pin it to the player waiting for the free? They are doing the same thing; preventing the ball from being moved on. Like the contact to the head rule, players just learn how to manipulate the rule to get the result. So the end result we pin player no.1 because player no.2 dived on and is preventing the ball being released. Even if by the time the ump blows his whistle player no.1 is not even in possession.

BTW agree that umpiring has been crap all year. Nicholls is terrible for certain rules being interrupted differently at different areas of the ground at different times IMO. Razor Ray (hell we even have a nickname for him) has to impact the contest and be famous.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

The Darling decision was the worst decision ever made on a football field. The free so obviously should have gone the other way for in the back.
It was akin to someone getting punched in the head and then getting reported for head butting the other guy's fist.

 

[Shemp 54]

The Darling decision was the worst decision ever made on a football field. The free so obviously should have gone the other way for in the back.
It was akin to someone getting punched in the head and then getting reported for head butting the other guy's fist.

Was it Johnno a few years ago was knocked out and got pinged for holding the ball?

 

[Mop]

Just watched the rematch of the game tonight, and it was as clear as the freckles on my nose that there was no free kick against Picken.

We didn't lose the game, the umpires stole the game from us.

It would be poetic justice that the West Coast lose to Carlton in the finals, by a poor umpire decision - karma can be a bitch.

I responded to this once already, must've been unappreciated by the mods so I'll re-word it: it wasnt West Coast who gave the free kick against you. The umpires did, you obviously struggle to understand the basic concept of Karma. We quite often receive shit calls at the hands of the umpires.

 

[Dancing Dougy]

Was it Johnno a few years ago was knocked out and got pinged for holding the ball?

I don't recall the Johnno one, but may years ago, I recall Stevie Wallis (Western Oval, approx middle of the ground) got absolutely poleaxed with a big swinging round arm. Knocked out cold before he hit the ground, fell on the ball and was given holding the ball against him.

I was only very young at the time, but always remember this as the worst decision I'd ever witnessed. How it was missed was extraordinary. Having him stretchered from the ground was quite bemusing as the opposition player (sadly don't recall) was readying to take his free kick

 

[ivan rassmussen]

I don't recall the Johnno one, but may years ago, I recall Stevie Wallis (Western Oval, approx middle of the ground) got absolutely poleaxed with a big swinging round arm. Knocked out cold before he hit the ground, fell on the ball and was given holding the ball against him.

I was only very young at the time, but always remember this as the worst decision I'd ever witnessed. How it was missed was extraordinary. Having him stretchered from the ground was quite bemusing as the opposition player (sadly don't recall) was readying to take his free kick

We were playing Sydney, the opposition player was Bernard Toohey, later to be a Bulldog! Toohey had no intention to get the ball - he lined Wallis up as Wallis tended to leave himself wide open in his younger days. Toohey's sole purpose was to shirtfront Wallis - as an added bonus he knocked him out and got a free!!!

 

[Dancing Dougy]

We were playing Sydney, the opposition player was Bernard Toohey, later to be a Bulldog! Toohey had no intention to get the ball - he lined Wallis up as Wallis tended to leave himself wide open in his younger days. Toohey's sole purpose was to shirtfront Wallis - as an added bonus he knocked him out and got a free!!!

Thanks for confirming Ivan It was that long ago, I was questioning the details. Sounds like the swinging arm may have been a little over exaggerated, but as they say....

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story

 

[Unnamed1]

Exactly, they shouldnt be named and be allowed to talk to players other then "Number 21, holding the ball, etc"

And I still cant believe you can get pinged for trying to get the ball and actually make something happen, its just laughable when you actually deeply think about it1

100% with you.

I've made the same argument on other threads.

We should look to other codes where the umps/refs are respected. Look no further than Union - players are referred to as numbers and colours.

No room/need for personality clashes with the players. In fact, as soon as the rugby union refs start getting in conflict with the players (Watson/Gregan) they get dropped for a month..

Nor do the referees feel obliged to explain their decisions to the players - if the players talk back, they are penalised even further..

 

[MYOB]

I feel sorry for razor ray, it was Nichols who gave the darling free kick.

You're obviously guessing, just like Ray.

Make no mistake, it was Ray who paid the decison, one of the worst I have ever seen paid.

 

[josh the gent]

I responded to this once already, must've been unappreciated by the mods so I'll re-word it: it wasnt West Coast who gave the free kick against you. The umpires did, you obviously struggle to understand the basic concept of Karma. We quite often receive shit calls at the hands of the umpires.

Agreed, it was hardly Darling's, or West Coast's fault, that Razor Ray is such a despicable heap of shit. **** him, he is such a piece of shit.

So is the other ****nut who paid the freekick against Selwood for HTB. Utter bullshit decisions.

Both umpires should be taken to court for crimes against the 20,883 people who came to watch a game of football on Saturday.

Off with their heads I say (meant figuratively - i.e. sack them).

 

[Neverwas]

Razor Ray has form. In the Fremantle game against the Sydney Swans a couple weeks back good old Razor was mainly responsible for the Freemantle getting 8 of its 15 goals from free kicks. (That doesn’t count the ones they missed and must be some sort of record). In addition 50m penalties were awarded at the drop of a hat, usually to Fremantle.

The Swans got two goals from free kicks.

It was the worst, most biased umpiring I have seen in 47 years of watching the game.

Replays showed that many of the free kicks were wrongly awarded and that free kicks that should have been awarded were not.

Posters from other club boards were commenting that it seemed the game had been decided beforehand.

The Swans club boards are still getting posts on the issue, one of those is over 30 pages long and still growing.

It was infuriating watching the coverage which included Brian Taylor making all sorts of excuses from the decisions and the relatively fair-minded Paul Roos, obviously under instructions not to say it like it is, making comments like “it seems that Ray has to explain his position is a lot more than other umpires”.

Many people in New South Wales now think that the game is “engineered” because of the umpiring of that game.

The Fremantle game in Sydney has set back AFL in NSW years in its development and helped consolidate declining attendances at the Swans games.

After hearing about the doggies game I am asking myself what it is about WA teams that seems to win his favours.

Razor certainly does have a lot to answer for.

 

[Shemp 54]

I don't recall the Johnno one, but may years ago, I recall Stevie Wallis (Western Oval, approx middle of the ground) got absolutely poleaxed with a big swinging round arm. Knocked out cold before he hit the ground, fell on the ball and was given holding the ball against him.

I was only very young at the time, but always remember this as the worst decision I'd ever witnessed. How it was missed was extraordinary. Having him stretchered from the ground was quite bemusing as the opposition player (sadly don't recall) was readying to take his free kick

That's got to be the one I was thinking of. Grrr.

 

[JJHunter]

Up until those last 2 critical decisions, I actually thought Razor hadn't been too bad today. Matthew Nichols had yet another shocker - how he continues to get a game is beyond belief. He must have incriminating photos of someone.

Totally Agree..... Word for word.

If Matthew Nichols couldn't bounce the ball - without doubt best bouncer of the ball as an umpire in history - then he would be picking fruit up north somewhere cause the guy is a terrible terrible decision maker.
He has screwed us over in at least 3 games this year.

 

[Drunken Bum]

We were playing Sydney, the opposition player was Bernard Toohey, later to be a Bulldog! Toohey had no intention to get the ball - he lined Wallis up as Wallis tended to leave himself wide open in his younger days. Toohey's sole purpose was to shirtfront Wallis - as an added bonus he knocked him out and got a free!!!

Wasn't it Mick Egan or Mckenna that got knocked out? It was against Sydney but nearly certain that it was one of them got the free paid against him after being knocked out, oh and the game was in Sydney This would have been early 80's.

Or i could have killed far too many brain cells over the years and not know what i am talking about

 

[Big Wilbur]

Agreed, it was hardly Darling's, or West Coast's fault, that Razor Ray is such a despicable heap of shit. **** him, he is such a piece of shit.

So is the other ****nut who paid the freekick against Selwood for HTB. Utter bullshit decisions.

Both umpires should be taken to court for crimes against the 20,883 people who came to watch a game of football on Saturday.

Off with their heads I say (meant figuratively - i.e. sack them).

Rest assured it was Chamberlain who paid both of these free kicks.

 

[TempleKelvington]

The Jack Darling free made up not only for the Selwood free but essentially 40 minutes of solid one sided umpiring.

In the previous 40 minutes any decision that could be considered 50/50 was being paid one way.

I nearly fell off my chair when Darling was paid a free as I was sure by that stage the umps had cash on a Bulldogs comeback. At stages they were openly encouraging the Bulldogs players to get into the game.

For instance in the third quarter Priddis had taken a mark and after some time was called to play on. The Bulldog standing the mark just continued to stand there and the umpire called play on another 6 times. It was like the umpire was screaming "Don't just stand there, go and get him".[/quote]That happens at least 20 times in any AFL match, and Priddis was genuinely stuffing around, and he was lucky he had that much time to dispose of it.

I noticed that while at the game a few times when the Eagles player had been called to play on and the man on the mark didn't react. The Priddis one, I just thought the ump allowed him to move around, but on the replay he was calling play on and kept calling it because Jones on the mark didn't seem to hear him.

It was more that on a couple of occasions our guys didn't hear the call. Maybe they need to use their eyes also and see the umps waving their hands.

 

[MYOB]

For those on twitter, go here to make sure that decision is one of the decisions they talk about on What's your decision

http://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=97893244767186945

 

[Mitcha]

Wasn't it Mick Egan or Mckenna that got knocked out? It was against Sydney but nearly certain that it was one of them got the free paid against him after being knocked out, oh and the game was in Sydney This would have been early 80's.

Or i could have killed far too many brain cells over the years and not know what i am talking about

I too recall Michael Mckenna getting poleaxed, 80s would have been about right.

 

[Belltower]

The umpiring is probably at its lowest point ever, and the umpiring department keep saying they get at least 85% of decisions right. Do they count where there is no decision necessary because that is the only way they could get that high a percentage.

Both of the last 2 decisions may have been technically right(??) but never should have been paid, play on in darling one and bounce down in selwood one. Both lot of specatators probably thought they got a raw deal and that is hardly unusual. I was ropeable when free kick after free kick was paid to the bulldogs late in the 3rd and early in the 4th during the run on. In one passage the bulldogs received 3 free kicks and then scored a goal.

The team that has the momentum generally gets more free kicks, I don't know why but the umps seem to go with the flow. The team that is playing better is also first to the ball more often and is therefore going to receive more free kicks.

I have seen a few games live this year and the umpiring has been rubbish and I think there are 2 main reasons, one is that the rules and interpretations have been greyed and two that few if any if these guys have played the game and therefore don't understand how it should be umpired ie. spirit

I am a renowned umpire critic at my own amateur club and it is mainly due to their inconsistency and the number of decisions made that show their general lack of understanding of the spirit of the game. I have had my clubmates say why are you complaining we got the kick, I say because the decision was wrong and until the umpire understands that he will never improve.

Sorry for the rant, good luck in the games to come

 

[Mop]

Agreed, it was hardly Darling's, or West Coast's fault, that Razor Ray is such a despicable heap of shit. **** him, he is such a piece of shit.

So is the other ****nut who paid the freekick against Selwood for HTB. Utter bullshit decisions.

Both umpires should be taken to court for crimes against the 20,883 people who came to watch a game of football on Saturday.

Off with their heads I say (meant figuratively - i.e. sack them).

Yeah. Exactly. Both were WTF moments.


Dean Margetts is another who frustrates anyone who he officiates. In the previous weekend's Derby both us West Coast and Dockers supporters a like were dumbfounded by some of the calls he made.


Basically, the current standard of umpiring is very very low, and the fact that the AFL or Giesh, the people in a position to be able to tell them to pick their game up, don't, then week after week we're all going to be back here asking why the standard is so consistantly poor, without getting any answers.

 

[Scroater]

Wont quote Belltower because too long, but I'm also one of those that can't stand it when we receive a shit decision because I know how ropable I get when "they all even out."

It has even got to the stage where I'm changing channels and turning the football off. Even when watching neutral games where I couldn't give two hoots who wins. The umpiring is that frustrating, what with the different interpretations and their behaviour.

Half of them run around thinking they are the stars of the game and the other half run around like deers caught in headlights.

Sack Geishen, Sack the Rules Committee, Sack the MRP, scrap every bloody rule in the game and start again. Head is sacrocant, extended arms is in the back, player hasn't got ball=holding the man, player has ball and doesn't try=holding the ball, scrap prior opportunity, run 15 steps bounce the ball, 15 metre penalties, scrap chopping arms and unmike the umpires. 6 bloody rules is all we need. Footy really is a simple game and these blokes have stuffed it. Oh and no advantage.

Boydy got a too high call late in the last quarter when tackled by Nicoski in the back pocket. Nicoski questioned it and the umpire (not ray or that bald ****) said "I saw your arm go up over his shoulder." They showed the replay and it was a perfect tackle with his hand going no higher than the bicep. What the **** was that idiot actually looking at to see a high tackle that wasn't a high tackle. Better get off, starting to smash keyboard with two fingers

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I responded to this once already, must've been unappreciated by the mods so I'll re-word it: it wasnt West Coast who gave the free kick against you. The umpires did, you obviously struggle to understand the basic concept of Karma. We quite often receive shit calls at the hands of the umpires.

Hey Mop, don't talk about karma to a Bulldog supporter, we know all about karma, we are still suffering from building on that ancient burial site.

Seriously, it was poor umpiring, and regardless of who you support, it was unjustifiable, listen to the footy commentators, not one has said that it was a free kick to you guys.

 

[Cousin Ben]

While as supporters we are never very objective about the umpires the sad reality is that the decisions being made this year are often unfathomable. There is no consistency and often no reward for the playmakers. Yesterday was just another typical day with celebrity umpires trying to boost their personal onscreen time. That we recognize the umpires is an indictment. They should be a faceless presence.

Couldn't agree with you more.
We should not be talking about them, yet here we are, naming names to boot. That speaks volumes for the umps in question.

I responded to this once already, must've been unappreciated by the mods so I'll re-word it: it wasnt West Coast who gave the free kick against you. The umpires did, you obviously struggle to understand the basic concept of Karma. We quite often receive shit calls at the hands of the umpires.

Again I concur. The Eagles whipped us well and truly for that part of the game where it was set up - ie: the first half.

As much as it pains me to say it, our admirable comeback was aided by some favourable umpiring. That's not a criticism of the Dogs or the Eagles, but the umpires. What we did wrong was play insipid football in the 1st half. Whilst we got out act together, the umps then took over. They suddenly had a result on the line and a chance to "make a difference", and they weren't about to let it pass by. Shame on them, but don't blame the victors for it.

 

[Mop]

Hey Mop, don't talk about karma to a Bulldog supporter, we know all about karma, we are still suffering from building on that ancient burial site.

Seriously, it was poor umpiring, and regardless of who you support, it was unjustifiable, listen to the footy commentators, not one has said that it was a free kick to you guys.

It wasn't a free kick to us, but neither we as supporters nor did the players give the free kick against you, the umpires did, furthermore the Adam Selwood HTB free kick was contentious at the other end.

 

[gs17]

The umpiring is probably at its lowest point ever, and the umpiring department keep saying they get at least 85% of decisions right. Do they count where there is no decision necessary because that is the only way they could get that high a percentage.

Both of the last 2 decisions may have been technically right(??) but never should have been paid, play on in darling one and bounce down in selwood one. Both lot of specatators probably thought they got a raw deal and that is hardly unusual. I was ropeable when free kick after free kick was paid to the bulldogs late in the 3rd and early in the 4th during the run on. In one passage the bulldogs received 3 free kicks and then scored a goal.

The team that has the momentum generally gets more free kicks, I don't know why but the umps seem to go with the flow. The team that is playing better is also first to the ball more often and is therefore going to receive more free kicks.

I have seen a few games live this year and the umpiring has been rubbish and I think there are 2 main reasons, one is that the rules and interpretations have been greyed and two that few if any if these guys have played the game and therefore don't understand how it should be umpired ie. spirit

I am a renowned umpire critic at my own amateur club and it is mainly due to their inconsistency and the number of decisions made that show their general lack of understanding of the spirit of the game. I have had my clubmates say why are you complaining we got the kick, I say because the decision was wrong and until the umpire understands that he will never improve.

Sorry for the rant, good luck in the games to come

The way the umpire is graded is on correct calls, missed calls and incorrect calls. % is based on correct calls made/total calls made.
Maybe they should include the missed calls as well.