Autopsy Re-watching the 2008 grand final

[catempire]

Some great yarns in this thread. Now glad I popped in.

 

[bulletproof]

Some great yarns in this thread. Now glad I popped in.

Agree, though I am a little concerned about some of the anger management issues our Geelong board friends have confessed to.....

 

[catempire]

Agree, though I am a little concerned about some of the anger management issues our Geelong board friends have confessed to.....

Yes, there's a lot to be said for the safety of anonymity on the interwebz!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I tell you this, I'd watch the 2008 GF 100 times over before I watch last year's prelim again. We mucked up 2008 royally, but it undoubtedly made the group stronger and more resolved - with a pact never to let them beat us again. All going so well until last year's prelim, which would have been one of our greatest wins. Its still sticks in my gut; I don't even like to hear that game written about or mentioned. Writing about it now even give me ill-feeling

 

[Go Hoops]

Why would you want to put yourself through the pain?

 

[Magnus McFysh]

Why would you want to put yourself through the pain?

Yeah, I much prefer watching the '07, '09 and '11 DVDs

 

[Munich]

I want nice guys to win. And guess what? Bartel, Kelly, Ottens, Varcoe, Selwood, LONERGAN,Enright, Corey, Mackie, Chapman, Ling etc have not shown one muscle twitch that suggests anything but utmost determination and humility in victory.

Hmmm, wait until you get them away from the cameras

 

[Beth]

Even though it's the gastrics, I can wear 2008 as it fell in amongst ridiculous success. It's the 90's that really stick in my guts. Just that feeling of hopelessness and genuinely thinking that I would never see success in my lifetime. Old enough to drink and young enough to believe I would have another 60 plus years of failure.

It's why I am so rabidly hostile to the GWS and GC franchises. I feel as teams like the Bulldogs and St Kilda are going to miss out because of them and I don't wish that hopeless feeling on any genuine footy fan.

 

[BotsMaster]

When Otto took the shot from 50 in the 2nd quarter I think it was instead of passing to a wide open Domsy all alone in the goal square I knew we were in a world of trouble

"Strolls in. Can think all about it...and miss."

 

[Partridge]

Even though it's the gastrics, I can wear 2008 as it fell in amongst ridiculous success. It's the 90's that really stick in my guts. Just that feeling of hopelessness and genuinely thinking that I would never see success in my lifetime. Old enough to drink and young enough to believe I would have another 60 plus years of failure.

It's why I am so rabidly hostile to the GWS and GC franchises. I feel as teams like the Bulldogs and St Kilda are going to miss out because of them and I don't wish that hopeless feeling on any genuine footy fan.

Not at the time it didn't. We'd only won one premiership to that point, and were by far the best team that season. It was also a chance to cleanse about 40 years of non-achievement.

 

[steady2]

Maybe the worst day of my life. Was in China, wife not interested in footy and a visit from the sister-in-law who was equally mystified at my drunken depression. Have never and don't think I could ever watch the replay.

Have always been disgusted at how the media and Hawk fans think they were brilliant and Clarkson a genius, when quite simply our guys choked. If our boys had kicked average we would have won by 20-30 points and if we had kicked true to our average that year we would have won by 40+, they did not win - we lost. Yes they did play very disciplined footy and to a plan, designed to beat us, but it was still dependent on our guys choking.

A few years ago listening to that Cam Mooney interview where he said "if we had won in 08 we would not have won in 09" I thought a lot about that. There was also an article by Leigh Mathews late in the 09 season which said something like this 'At their Geelong are the best, but due to injuries and other factors they have not played to their best this year, no team can expect to go through a home and away season playing less than their best and expect to turn it on in the finals, it doesn't happen like that. If Geelong are to beat St Kilda they will have to find something else other than playing to their best'. As Ross Lyon said that something else was 'playing like wild animals let out of a cage'.

Even more than Mooney, I think losing 08 gave us the chance to find something else to use to win in 09, and winning in 09 when we were not the best team gave us something else that we have used again and again to beat good teams, notably the 2011 Grand Final, and many times against Hawthorn.

Perhaps had we kicked straight in 08, we would have lost in 09 and slowly fallen down the ladder and bottomed out. Losing games in those years 03-06 gave the team hunger for a flag and losing the 'unloseable' GF gave the players the medicine for winning when they were not the best. As is sometimes said in sport and in war, you learn more from your mistakes than your successes.

 

[Beth]

Not at the time it didn't. We'd only won one premiership to that point, and were by far the best team that season. It was also a chance to cleanse about 40 years of non-achievement.

20/20 hindsight. I mean now, at the time I was absolutely spewing but today Im at peace with it!

 

[Partridge]

A few years ago listening to that Cam Mooney interview where he said "if we had won in 08 we would not have won in 09" I thought a lot about that. There was also an article by Leigh Mathews late in the 09 season which said something like this 'At their Geelong are the best, but due to injuries and other factors they have not played to their best this year, no team can expect to go through a home and away season playing less than their best and expect to turn it on in the finals, it doesn't happen like that. If Geelong are to beat St Kilda they will have to find something else other than playing to their best'. As Ross Lyon said that something else was 'playing like wild animals let out of a cage'.

I hate that line of thinking. Why not win both years? If that was true how do clubs ever win back-to-back? How did Brisbane win 3 straight? If you need to lose a Grand Final to be motivated to win one doesn't exactly say a lot about you as a competitive sportsman does it?

Too many don't want to face hard truths - the team choked, and a few players crumbled horribly under pressure.

 

[BotsMaster]

Perhaps had we kicked straight in 08, we would have lost in 09 and slowly fallen down the ladder and bottomed out. Losing games in those years 03-06 gave the team hunger for a flag and losing the 'unloseable' GF gave the players the medicine for winning when they were not the best. As is sometimes said in sport and in war, you learn more from your mistakes than your successes.

Nope, way too talented to bottom out and we would have most likely had another crack at it 2010.

 

[SJ]

I hate that line of thinking. Why not win both years? If that was true how do clubs ever win back-to-back? How did Brisbane win 3 straight? If you need to lose a Grand Final to be motivated to win one doesn't exactly say a lot about you as a competitive sportsman does it?

Too many don't want to face hard truths - the team choked, and a few players crumbled horribly under pressure.

Also makes me wonder why we didn't win the premiership in any of the other seasons after our grand final losses..

 

[steady2]

Also makes me wonder why we didn't win the premiership in any of the other seasons after our grand final losses..

Different era, 1990, 93,95,96 we were never quite good enough, relative to the teams which took the cup. In 1997 we were not as good as the previous teams but could have won it, some bad luck and an unfair finals system were against us.

 

[steady2]

I hate that line of thinking. Why not win both years? If that was true how do clubs ever win back-to-back? How did Brisbane win 3 straight? If you need to lose a Grand Final to be motivated to win one doesn't exactly say a lot about you as a competitive sportsman does it? Too many don't want to face hard truths - the team choked, and a few players crumbled horribly under pressure.

Teams and clubs are all different, our club had a different personnel and different culture to the Lions 01-03. I think there is a lot in what Mooney said, and as you say above the team choked and that was a massive spur for the following year. Bomber Thomson also said that he raised the matter of the previous year at 3/4 time in 2009 to emphasise the pain of losing.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

I love how people think losing 08 didn't in some way help us win 2009.
Bomber used it at 3/4 time.
Harley and the leadership group said it before the game (DO NOT come off this ground without a MEDAL!).
Every player I've heard when asked that question said it did.
Here's a fact for you, only once in the entire history of our game has a team lost all of the first 3 quarters and won the flag.
1 gold star for those who know the answer.

 

[BotsMaster]

Different era, 1990, 93,95,96 we were never quite good enough, relative to the teams which took the cup. In 1997 we were not as good as the previous teams but could have won it, some bad luck and an unfair finals system were against us.

The Squiggle chart for that year is interesting:

If you didn't know who the winner was that year, you'd say the Saints were the premier team.

 

[BotsMaster]

Here's a fact for you, only once in the entire history of our game has a team lost all of the first 3 quarters and won the flag.
1 gold star for those who know the answer.

Essendon in the 1984 Grand Final

 

[Teriyakicat]

I love how people think losing 08 didn't in some way help us win 2009.
Bomber used it at 3/4 time.
Harley and the leadership group said it before the game (DO NOT come off this ground without a MEDAL!).
Every player I've heard when asked that question said it did.
Here's a fact for you, only once in the entire history of our game has a team lost all of the first 3 quarters and won the flag.
1 gold star for those who know the answer.

The Cats are good at rewriting the history books, aren't they?

 

[Teriyakicat]

Essendon in the 1984 Grand Final

BZZZZZTTTT! Wrong!
Go to the end of the queue and check the third quarter scores in that game, bots

 

[steady2]

The Squiggle chart for that year is interesting:
View attachment 68026
If you didn't know who the winner was that year, you'd say the Saints were the premier team.

From memory the Saints lost seven games in the H&A season and still finished on top of the ladder. I remember thinking late in the season, the team that gets to play the Saints in the GF will win the Premiership as the Saints choked all their important games, it turned out to be the Crows and some great luck for Malcolm Blight.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Essendon in the 1984 Grand Final

No actually.
There is only one.

 

[BotsMaster]

Fun fact: we only won 1 quarter in both 2008 and 2009.