List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

Rebuild or refresh?

  • Rebuild

    Votes: 14 28.0%
  • Refresh

    Votes: 36 72.0%

  • Total voters
    50

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DeLaCon

Senior List
Nov 15, 2019
259
923
AFL Club
Richmond
Its a refresh. Rance gone gives salary cap room. Houli should retire IMO and that creates more room. Astbury looks like hes done as well so maybe he should be moved on and Nankervis could also be moved on if Chol or CCJ can come in the side and do things. Thats alot of salary cap space. My targets would be Sam Taylor to replace Astbury and Hunter Clark from St Kilda to replace Houli. Tom Green should be a longer term target.
 

Bojangles17

Hall of Famer
May 17, 2004
34,601
43,422
Punt Rd ‘17? ‘19?
AFL Club
Richmond
Agreed that now is the time to blood kids.
It’s shaping us such an unusual season that if you introduce some fresh talent and our stars start clicking we might be able to win enough games to get into contention.
And if that doesn’t pan out then at the very least we’ll identify some talent leading into next season
It’s the obvious solution , apart from cotch , possibly Prestia none of our senior players are contributing . They need to be dropped and introduce our young players to see who can play.
 

_RT_

2017 2019 2020
Sep 17, 2006
38,705
59,621
Southern Stand Punt Road End
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Richmond
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Furies Premiers 2010
Wouldn't have a problem with us using 2020 as a refresher year where we take a look at some of the kids coming through and see what they bring to the table at AFL level.

Down back I think we need to bring Balta into the mix as I think we've got it slightly wrong in the mix. With Rance departing we managed to get away with only Astbury as a KPD and mid sized support from Broad Grimes & Vlastuin in 2019, but this year I reckon we're one tall short especially when Broad goes into the ruck. If we bring in Balta we've got that extra cover down back and can use Balta in the ruck as a pinch hitter when his opponent goes into the ruck. Still leaves us with the structure of Astbury Grimes Broad & Vlastuin that has served us well. Regardless I'd still like to to see Balta playing at CHB and give us a better structure down back.

Clearly the old use a mid sized option as a second ruck isn't working. It is impacting our structure adversely as Broad is needed down back and KMac is needed on the wing. Not only that but when faced with 105+kg genuine rucks neither appear that keen to jump at the bounce which effectively lets the opposition ruck have a free hit. With the understandable reluctance to use Lynch in the middle, then maybe it's worth trying CCJ in partnership with Nankervis. Both are quite mobile around the ground and can clunk it up forward. While it might make us a little top heavy up forward with Jack Tom & CCJ/Nank up there I actually think it could work for us by helping to spread the oppositions defenders by having the 3 genuine marking options in the side. You could use 2 of them pushing up on to the wings as the link up from D50 and then we'd still have another marking option inside F50.

Finally I'd love to see a couple of the young kids get a crack through the middle to see what they bring to the mix. Prestia Cotchin Martin & to a lesser extent Edwards are getting their hands on the footy, but we're lacking spread from the contest. Lambert has been barely noticeable this year & Ellis' spread has been missed also. A couple of younger kids with a bit of speed in their legs could be handy in getting out into space and giving us that link up option through the middle that keeps the ball moving forward.

We should still be good enough to make the 8 despite doing this and would also get the benefit of getting some development into some kids for the future as well.
 

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DontArgue4

17🏆19🏆20🏆
May 3, 2013
17,459
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Not that worried tbh, i reckon a small refresh wouldnt hurt though.

The likes of RCD, CCJ, Ross, Dow, Naish, Chol should get games to show what they can give us. This is the year to do it imo.

We should have some cash to spend end of the year to possibly recruit what we need.
 

RFCGloryJC

Prosecco Ecco
Jun 13, 2018
9,289
25,099
Prosecco Ecco
AFL Club
Richmond
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It's an irregular season so I wouldn't read too much into it so far.
However, if we have another mediocre start next year, then they have to be ruthless at the end of 2021, in terms of culling and recruitment.
It will be an important time for our club.
Do we plummet down the ladder or remain at or near the top for a decade?
 

theyellowsash

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 9, 2009
12,132
15,482
Footscray
AFL Club
Richmond
Midfield is the big hole. It's never really been that good and we will lose Edwards and cotchin pretty soon, and lambert Martin and Prestia are getting old too. Prestia is the youngest and will be 28 in October.

We don't have young minds coming through. Higgins should be long term, and both Ross and Graham are bulls but the club won't play them in the middle. We have a handful of other speculative kids and that's it.

If we don't find some young midfield talent the fall will be hard and fast. What we have seen this year could be the midfield having fallen off a cliff already.
 

Bill Haverchuck

Team Captain
Sep 30, 2019
485
1,068
AFL Club
Richmond
Midfield is the big hole. It's never really been that good and we will lose Edwards and cotchin pretty soon, and lambert Martin and Prestia are getting old too. Prestia is the youngest and will be 28 in October.

We don't have young minds coming through. Higgins should be long term, and both Ross and Graham are bulls but the club won't play them in the middle. We have a handful of other speculative kids and that's it.

If we don't find some young midfield talent the fall will be hard and fast. What we have seen this year could be the midfield having fallen off a cliff already.
Agree


Also Bolton should be playing more time in the midfield , had a 29p 4clearance game against GWS last year..

Even before the season started it was clear we had an aging midfield and a clear need to bring in young talent yet here we are..
 

theyellowsash

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 9, 2009
12,132
15,482
Footscray
AFL Club
Richmond
Ages at the start of next season (assuming 1st march or whatever)
Forwards:
Jack 32
Lynch 28

Mids:
Edwards 32
Cotchin 30
Martin 29
Lambert 29
Prestia 28

Backs:
Houli 32
Astbury 30
Grimes 29

Misc:
Caddy 28

Thats out entire spine and midfield. All of our young players are periphery. Thats a hell of a cliff coming with few if any replacements for any of them. Sure a lot of players can play well into their early 30s, but just at many suddenly just lose it and some even peter out just before 30.

We could very well be done now friends. But it was a good 3 years (minus 1 very sh*t week)
 

Rayzorwire

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 25, 2007
7,726
7,956
FNQ
AFL Club
Richmond
Ages at the start of next season (assuming 1st march or whatever)
Forwards:
Jack 32
Lynch 28

Mids:
Edwards 32
Cotchin 30
Martin 29
Lambert 29
Prestia 28

Backs:
Houli 32
Astbury 30
Grimes 29

Misc:
Caddy 28

Thats out entire spine and midfield. All of our young players are periphery. Thats a hell of a cliff coming with few if any replacements for any of them. Sure a lot of players can play well into their early 30s, but just at many suddenly just lose it and some even peter out just before 30.

We could very well be done now friends. But it was a good 3 years (minus 1 very sh*t week)
It's not a great age profile, but the top age players are the bulk of our cap, we're a a target destination (for now at least), so in theory it's nothing half a dozen 'Doozies' can't remedy...;)
 

Lsta062

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 15, 2014
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when we know we cant win anymore flags we go full rebuild cos we arent going to win flags going down the hawks or geelol route

i have faith in those in charge that we will have a ground up rebuild that will see us back in the finals very quickly
Yeah I don’t think a full rebuild will take us long either. I guess that’s why I’m more of an advocate of fully rebuilding. I feel like we have the young support cast and just need a couple of high end picks (like Cotchin, Dusty etc). We’d be right back in my opinion
 

TiggerMan22

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2012
11,826
20,731
AFL Club
Richmond
Agreed that now is the time to blood kids.
It’s shaping us such an unusual season that if you introduce some fresh talent and our stars start clicking we might be able to win enough games to get into contention.
And if that doesn’t pan out then at the very least we’ll identify some talent leading into next season
Injuries last year forced us to blood young players and increased our depth and found us some players. Can do the same now.
 

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RunningBounce

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2013
4,230
9,405
AFL Club
Richmond
Every club needs to refresh, every year. I reckon you need to find at least two or three players a season. So far this season, we haven't found one (although the scratch match reports on Dow are promising), but it is early. Round 4. And we probably found half a dozen last year, so the pressure is off to an extent.

I don't think any clubs intentionally goes the full "rebuild" anymore. When I hear that word, I think trading out first 22 players for draft picks and a youth-first policy at the Selection Committee meetings. It's conceding that your gunna be uncompetitive for a period, and that's truly corrosive. The kids who get spoon-fed the games often end up like kicked dogs.

You only hear the language "rebuild" or "refresh" or "renovate" or whatever when the club is sick of the supporters whinging at losses, and are asking them to calm down and be patient. Its a PR thing, and the Richmond FC PR Department doesn't need to think about it for a while yet.

In the meantime, we'll keep developing the young 'uns. Anyone assessing our Tiger cubs needs to remember how sh*t Rance was for at least 50 games. Absolute liability. That worked out okay, and we still have a very similar development coaching team.
 

Coach_Required

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 19, 2008
5,184
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Perth
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Don't need to rebuild but we do need to refresh.

We still have a very talented list that the majority are still good enough, however we do have a handful of players that will retire this year and next that we will need to replace. Having a sh*t year isn't the end of the world in regards to rebuilding our list. We also have some quality youngsters not getting a game atm.
 

db26

Premiership Player
Apr 26, 2007
3,724
8,526
Punt road
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Richmond
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Aston Villa,A-league
Agree with refresh you need to involve every year and bring a few new faces in best 22.In saying that so does the coaching panel needs to involve with trends and game plan, tactics as we seen last season with 2 rucks etc.
 

RunningBounce

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2013
4,230
9,405
AFL Club
Richmond
I get that the OP isn't saying we need a rebuild right now.

But just for the lols, I thought I'd pick a team from those who are 23 or younger. They've either debuted or coaches have talked about them being in the frame for selection. Pretty strong 17. Just missing a CHF.

Baker Garthy Eggs
Naish Balta Stack
Turner Ross Higgins
Bolton * Castagna
Rioli Chol English

CCJ, RCD, Dow, Graham

Not all of them will make it, but I reckon that group will get an average of more than 50 games a piece.
 

tunksy

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 6, 2011
8,472
13,095
AFL Club
Richmond
I get that the OP isn't saying we need a rebuild right now.

But just for the lols, I thought I'd pick a team from those who are 23 or younger. They've either debuted or coaches have talked about them being in the frame for selection. Pretty strong 17. Just missing a CHF.

Baker Garthy Eggs
Naish Balta Stack
Turner Ross Higgins
Bolton * Castagna
Rioli Chol English

CCJ, RCD, Dow, Graham

Not all of them will make it, but I reckon that group will get an average of more than 50 games a piece.
Tbh that doesn't look very good at all. Hopefully some top end talent can help it out. But a few players there need to take the next steps in their development for sure.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
6,879
14,795
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
Premiership hangover big time. We can't hit the side of a barn by hand or foot. Need some young blood in there to stir up those coasting a bit. Happy to see some young players get a go and see what they an do. The footy is horrible anyway. Not throwing in the towel just yet, but they'd want to get a wriggle on.
 

Dr Tigris

Premium Platinum
Aug 19, 2009
7,861
19,897
Canberra
AFL Club
Richmond
Rebuild a dominant 2019 team because they've started the 2020 restart poorly. We've come out of the off period really badly. We're not sharp and look leg heavy. Clean that up and we're back on fire. This is sort of like last year - poor start and then come home on fire. But we don't have much time to get it right. Win a couple of games and we're fine.

If a few older guys fall off a cliff we'll need replacements. Probably OK there too. But right now we have a team that should be winning premierships. Whilst you are there you go as hard as you can to win another one.
 

Charlie Pannam

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 15, 2015
6,946
21,071
AFL Club
Richmond
Rebuild a dominant 2019 team because they've started the 2020 restart poorly. We've come out of the off period really badly. We're not sharp and look leg heavy. Clean that up and we're back on fire. This is sort of like last year - poor start and then come home on fire. But we don't have much time to get it right. Win a couple of games and we're fine.

If a few older guys fall off a cliff we'll need replacements. Probably OK there too. But right now we have a team that should be winning premierships. Whilst you are there you go as hard as you can to win another one.
Yep all above the shoulders can’t go from the best team in the land to a basket case in 4 games.
We’ve got some great talent dominating at VFL level, are now a destination club for FA’s, and could be the beneficiary of an early draft pick this year if the AFL pull the pin early
 

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