List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

[Bojangles17]

So it looks like we've now reached the fork in the road in regards to whether we're going full rebuild or more of a freshen up of the list. 8 weeks in and we've seen M. Rioli, Mansell, RCD, Stack, Miller, Ralphsmith, Dow, Gibcus & Ross been given opportunity to stake a claim for the 22 with different levels of success so far. Maurice Ralphsmith Dow Gibcus & Ross have been quite successful with only injury stopping HRS & Dow from still being in the side, while Gibcus already looks like a veteran. Ross has been a victim of the squeeze IMO as you could argue his form was good enough to hold his spot if we were in a full rebuild

However now we've got the premiership heroes up and running, the squeeze is going to be on for spots, which in itself is a good thing as it will mean the younger kids are performing well at either VFL or AFL level, but the question becomes how long can we hold back younger players who are deserving of a chance before the start to become disillusioned with whether they are a realistic chance of playing senior footy or not, which means some might start looking for opportunity elsewhere.

As we saw yesterday we had the likes of Ross Dow Sonsie put their hands up for selection, but will likely need to wait a bit longer before they get a crack given we're coming off 2 very good performances, but again, how long do you go without rewarding good form at the lower level over 'average' form at the higher level.

For mine I think we'll be much better served long term rewarding the kids who are showing good form and giving them a crack at playing senior footy to show them that consistent good form will always be rewarded, which will keep the fringe players hungry and pushing for selection. If they feel that they aren't a chance of being rewarded they'll become disinterested and simply start going through the motions.

It’s a delicate balance , Cotch Edwards and jack should be managed at opportune times to provide chances for the next wave of talent coming tru , lambo and pres won’t play every week either , pretty confident they’ll get their oppo

 

[Ctl]

So it looks like we've now reached the fork in the road in regards to whether we're going full rebuild or more of a freshen up of the list. 8 weeks in and we've seen M. Rioli, Mansell, RCD, Stack, Miller, Ralphsmith, Dow, Gibcus & Ross been given opportunity to stake a claim for the 22 with different levels of success so far. Maurice Ralphsmith Dow Gibcus & Ross have been quite successful with only injury stopping HRS & Dow from still being in the side, while Gibcus already looks like a veteran. Ross has been a victim of the squeeze IMO as you could argue his form was good enough to hold his spot if we were in a full rebuild

However now we've got the premiership heroes up and running, the squeeze is going to be on for spots, which in itself is a good thing as it will mean the younger kids are performing well at either VFL or AFL level, but the question becomes how long can we hold back younger players who are deserving of a chance before the start to become disillusioned with whether they are a realistic chance of playing senior footy or not, which means some might start looking for opportunity elsewhere.

As we saw yesterday we had the likes of Ross Dow Sonsie put their hands up for selection, but will likely need to wait a bit longer before they get a crack given we're coming off 2 very good performances, but again, how long do you go without rewarding good form at the lower level over 'average' form at the higher level.

For mine I think we'll be much better served long term rewarding the kids who are showing good form and giving them a crack at playing senior footy to show them that consistent good form will always be rewarded, which will keep the fringe players hungry and pushing for selection. If they feel that they aren't a chance of being rewarded they'll become disinterested and simply start going through the motions.

A solution might be to start deliberately resting the older guys occassionally (Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert). That sort of happened in the early rounds through injury but now everyone is back. The rest served Cotch well came back and played his best game of the year, so it might help them aswell.

 

[WATiger86]

With Tarrant out of the side, Edwards is probably the only senior player not fully justifying his spot from a performance perspective - could Sonsie play that role? Or for consistency are Ross and Dow the next in for that spot?

Our best 22 is probably a good mix of experience and youth right now in any case, so no need to go too hard on the kids right now

 

[GhostofJimJess]

A solution might be to start deliberately resting the older guys occassionally (Edwards, Cotchin, Lambert). That sort of happened in the early rounds through injury but now everyone is back. The rest served Cotch well came back and played his best game of the year, so it might help them aswell.

It's already started. Cotch and Taz last week, Meatball and Tigga this weekend. It appears we're not taking any chances on our senior boys while we've got a good selection of reinforcements.

 

[_RT_]

With Tarrant out of the side, Edwards is probably the only senior player not fully justifying his spot from a performance perspective - could Sonsie play that role? Or for consistency are Ross and Dow the next in for that spot?

Our best 22 is probably a good mix of experience and youth right now in any case, so no need to go too hard on the kids right now

IMO our best 22 if everyone is in form is:
B: Grimes Balta Gibcus
HB: Vlastuin Broad D.Rioli
C: Graham Short McIntosh
HF: Bolton Lambert Castagna
F: Lynch Martin Riewoldt
R: Nankervis Cotchin Prestia
INT: Pickett Baker Soldo Edwards

Then you'd have your choice from Tarrant Dow Ross HRS RCD M.Rioli Miller Sonsie Nyoun Parker Martyn Stack Mansell who have been thereabouts for selection this year. Right now I'd have Maurice in for George and Dow in for Edwards on form wouldn't get much argument if we're being honest about it. As we saw when we were missing Martin Cotchin Pickett Prestia in recent weeks we've given the kids a good look at it and you'd like to think that now they've had a taste they're itching to get back in and maintain a level of form so that when the inevitable injury/form drop/planned rest comes along they're ready to slot in and hopefully claim a spot moving forward.

 

[tigerisland]

I ticked rebuild on the poll but it is more nuanced than that. Refresh to me is the Geelong model and that I definitely do not want.
In general I do not want us trading picks for players with some exceptions but it is either a late pick for a role player or unless it is a great deal like Prestia was. 2 first round picks for Treloar for example is a big no no. Our best player atm is Short and we got him as a Rookie ditto our captain Grimes.
I want to rebuild in the sense of taking a long term view. Mate Collina is a perfect example of this. It will take years for this arrangement to pay off - and it may not. However having a long time horizon is our secret weapon. No club has the advantages of financial strength, management stability and history of sustained success. We can leverage this to take higher risk, longer term picks that no other club can. This will be what keeps us great.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Our list is in an excellent spot. Keep using our picks while being competitive and even making finals.

 

[WATiger86]

IMO our best 22 if everyone is in form is:
B: Grimes Balta Gibcus
HB: Vlastuin Broad D.Rioli
C: Graham Short McIntosh
HF: Bolton Lambert Castagna
F: Lynch Martin Riewoldt
R: Nankervis Cotchin Prestia
INT: Pickett Baker Soldo Edwards

Then you'd have your choice from Tarrant Dow Ross HRS RCD M.Rioli Miller Sonsie Nyoun Parker Martyn Stack Mansell who have been thereabouts for selection this year. Right now I'd have Maurice in for George and Dow in for Edwards on form wouldn't get much argument if we're being honest about it. As we saw when we were missing Martin Cotchin Pickett Prestia in recent weeks we've given the kids a good look at it and you'd like to think that now they've had a taste they're itching to get back in and maintain a level of form so that when the inevitable injury/form drop/planned rest comes along they're ready to slot in and hopefully claim a spot moving forward.

Mansell for Vlaustin is easy this week
Who comes out for Prestia? Edwards (rest)

Would have said Jack Graham but he just played his best game of the season

Keep MRJ in

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Mansell for Vlaustin is easy this week
Who comes out for Prestia? Edwards (rest)

Would have said Jack Graham but he just played his best game of the season

Keep MRJ in

I wouldn't overthink it at this stage. There's always a hidden injury that we don't hear about until Thursday evening.

 

[Bojangles17]

With Tarrant out of the side, Edwards is probably the only senior player not fully justifying his spot from a performance perspective - could Sonsie play that role? Or for consistency are Ross and Dow the next in for that spot?

Our best 22 is probably a good mix of experience and youth right now in any case, so no need to go too hard on the kids right now

I’d say Dow will be next straight back in if only one spare after pres and Vlas included

 

[Bojangles17]

I wouldn't overthink it at this stage. There's always a hidden injury that we don't hear about until Thursday evening.

Noticed marls icing his hammy , prob precautionary after injury

 

[1980GFVideo]

With Tarrant out of the side, Edwards is probably the only senior player not fully justifying his spot from a performance perspective - could Sonsie play that role? Or for consistency are Ross and Dow the next in for that spot?

Our best 22 is probably a good mix of experience and youth right now in any case, so no need to go too hard on the kids right now

George says 'HI'.

Or by fully do you mean they are only justifying partially. in which case George says "cancel the Hi, im not in this conversation"

 

[Bojangles17]

George says 'HI'.

Or by fully do you mean they are only justifying partially. in which case George says "cancel the Hi, im not in this conversation"

If he hasnt been dropped yet , he certainly won’t be after arguably his best game

 

[1980GFVideo]

Mansell for Vlaustin is easy this week
Who comes out for Prestia? Edwards (rest)

Would have said Jack Graham but he just played his best game of the season

Keep MRJ in

It would be the most baffling selection of all time to leave MRJ out.

Edwards is the obvious one to make way.

 

[WATiger86]

George says 'HI'.

Or by fully do you mean they are only justifying partially. in which case George says "cancel the Hi, im not in this conversation"

George is still young

 

[1980GFVideo]

If he hasnt been dropped yet , he certainly won’t be after arguably his best game

Wont want to face Hawthorn without his 8 disposals next week?

 

[_RT_]

Mansell for Vlaustin is easy this week
Who comes out for Prestia? Edwards (rest)

Would have said Jack Graham but he just played his best game of the season

Keep MRJ in

Castagna

 

[JR82]

Right now we are in the sweet spot, it's on the kids (most who have had a chance this yr & showed something) to bang the door down so when form of a 1sts player drops or they have a niggle/need a rest they can force their way in. For example i can't see Cotch (again), Prestia & Lambert for example not being rested at some point later in the season. Their chance will come. We have seen enough from the kids to know that we don't need to carry an injured player into games as a kid can come in & perform the role when req'd.
I'd also argue that Gibcus & MRjr have already cemented their spots tho they may need a rest at some stage as the yr goes on as Gibcus already has.

 

[Simche]

Backline looked much better without Tarrant. Suspect he can play the depth role, but if we've got Gibcus, Vlas, Balta, Broad and Grimes down there I reckon that spells the end for one of Miller or Nyuon (Miller to be delisted would be my inclination).

Forward line actually looks like it functions again given the uplift in pressure brought on from MRJ. I honestly can't believe it. From where he was last year, just looking completely lost, his development has been huge. Looks like he belongs all of a sudden and puts the fear of god into the opposition runners. With Riewoldt looking just OK and Lynch in career best form I'd say we'd need to look at key forward stocks as a priority. The midfield clearance issues are still also obviously a huge priority also.

If we're going to challenge this year and make top 4 we need to keep Prestia and Grimes on the field as I reckon structurally they're the most important.

 

[Ctl]

Backline looked much better without Tarrant. Suspect he can play the depth role, but if we've got Gibcus, Vlas, Balta, Broad and Grimes down there I reckon that spells the end for one of Miller or Nyuon (Miller to be delisted would be my inclination).

Forward line actually looks like it functions again given the uplift in pressure brought on from MRJ. I honestly can't believe it. From where he was last year, just looking completely lost, his development has been huge. Looks like he belongs all of a sudden and puts the fear of god into the opposition runners. With Riewoldt looking just OK and Lynch in career best form I'd say we'd need to look at key forward stocks as a priority. The midfield clearance issues are still also obviously a huge priority also.

If we're going to challenge this year and make top 4 we need to keep Prestia and Grimes on the field as I reckon structurally they're the most important.

I reckon long term Biggie makes it into the back 6/7, and it doesn't hurt to keep Miller as depth as well as to play VFL. We won't be pressed for list spots at the end of this year

 

[Infamy]

Backline looked much better without Tarrant. Suspect he can play the depth role, but if we've got Gibcus, Vlas, Balta, Broad and Grimes down there I reckon that spells the end for one of Miller or Nyuon (Miller to be delisted would be my inclination).

I don't see the rush to delist Ben Miller, he's still only 22 years old.
Grimes, Broad & Tarrant won't be around too much longer either given their age, even if we just hang on to Miller as depth, in 2-3 years once the others are likely gone, then Miller will still only be 24-25.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Miller had two good/reasonable games before his down one in Adelaide, that's what you expect from young key talls in their first games, Gibcus is the 1/1000 who bucks that trend. The coaches love him, he's obviously doing everything right in terms of his progression, he's not going anywhere.

I very strongly doubt we've given up on the idea of Balta playing higher up the ground, at least over the long term. He's too good to be stuck deep in defence with his strongest attributes going largely to waste. If we'd been able to play him forward the last two games he'd have kicked bags and people would be still celebrating the arrival of our next power forward - just like happened after the GWS game.

Ideally Biggie and Miller come on enough to join Gibcus and free Balta up to play elsewhere, or at least to play the swingman role where he only goes back out of dire necessity.

 

[_RT_]

Miller had two good/reasonable games before his down one in Adelaide, that's what you expect from young key talls in their first games, Gibcus is the 1/1000 who bucks that trend. The coaches love him, he's obviously doing everything right in terms of his progression, he's not going anywhere.

I very strongly doubt we've given up on the idea of Balta playing higher up the ground, at least over the long term. He's too good to be stuck deep in defence with his strongest attributes going largely to waste. If we'd been able to play him forward the last two games he'd have kicked bags and people would be still celebrating the arrival of our next power forward - just like happened after the GWS game.

Ideally Biggie and Miller come on enough to join Gibcus and free Balta up to play elsewhere, or at least to play the swingman role where he only goes back out of dire necessity.

Baltas biggest attributes actually come to the fore when he is playing down back. Where he can back himself to attack the footy without worrying about getting in the way of Lynch/Riewoldt. Where he can use his athleticism to turn defence into attack in an instant with a dash and 60m kick out of D50. IMO the combination of Balta and Gibcus is already a lock. If we can get one of Nyoun or Miller to fill the 3rd spot then we've got the next generation of Rance Astbury Grimes that was the backbone of our 2017 premiership back 6.

IMO the way the game is played now you need to have premier defenders over premier forwards because at the end of the day if you can't stop the opposition from scoring then you're relying on winning a shootout. Now I know that people will say when we won our flags we had gun KPFs in Riewoldt and Lynch, but we also had a top rated defensive unit in Astbury Grimes Vlastuin Broad Houli Short that as a unit combined to stop the opposition from scoring, which meant that when we were under the pump we were able to keep close enough so that when we got our chance we were able to capitalise.

 

[JR82]

I reckon long term Biggie makes it into the back 6/7, and it doesn't hurt to keep Miller as depth as well as to play VFL. We won't be pressed for list spots at the end of this year

Not to mention form & injuries playing a part in season also

 

[JR82]

Baltas biggest attributes actually come to the fore when he is playing down back. Where he can back himself to attack the footy without worrying about getting in the way of Lynch/Riewoldt. Where he can use his athleticism to turn defence into attack in an instant with a dash and 60m kick out of D50. IMO the combination of Balta and Gibcus is already a lock. If we can get one of Nyoun or Miller to fill the 3rd spot then we've got the next generation of Rance Astbury Grimes that was the backbone of our 2017 premiership back 6.

IMO the way the game is played now you need to have premier defenders over premier forwards because at the end of the day if you can't stop the opposition from scoring then you're relying on winning a shootout. Now I know that people will say when we won our flags we had gun KPFs in Riewoldt and Lynch, but we also had a top rated defensive unit in Astbury Grimes Vlastuin Broad Houli Short that as a unit combined to stop the opposition from scoring, which meant that when we were under the pump we were able to keep close enough so that when we got our chance we were able to capitalise.

To further your point, we won '17 with just Jack as a Key fwd & smalls but i doubt we win it without the backs that u mention. I agree we just need 1 of Miller (who hasn't done much wrong at AFL level) & Biggie to come on & our key backs are set, both have different attributes & both will be handy players going fwd.