List Mgmt. Rebuild or refresh?

[_RT_]

YES and Sonsie has played 3 games in his first season. So what's your point as they've played in a successful club which is hard to break into. Geelong and Swan players have similar issues. Martyn and RCD are sub vfl standard so why would they get a game in the seniors? Dow and Ross are developing nicely and what i expect from 3-4 year players that have had to wait for a crack bc senior players are dropping off. COVID has nothing to do with their stunted development as you're either good enough or not up to it.

Richmond 2022 isn't as hard to break into as we're now in the process of transitioning to the next generation, while in 2020 & early 2021 we were fighting for a premiership. It was only after we hit the wall against the Eagles in round 13 that we started to put games into the kids.

Maybe RCD and Martyn aren't good enough, but we'll never know if they could have been good enough had they not been sidelined from playing games due to Covid.

Instead of just going around in circles I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on.

 

[TigerImposter]

Richmond 2022 isn't as hard to break into as we're now in the process of transitioning to the next generation, while in 2020 & early 2021 we were fighting for a premiership. It was only after we hit the wall against the Eagles in round 13 that we started to put games into the kids.

Maybe RCD and Martyn aren't good enough, but we'll never know if they could have been good enough had they not been sidelined from playing games due to Covid.

Instead of just going around in circles I'm happy to agree to disagree and move on.

Rubbish i labelled Martyn a spud from day one and the draft spotters on here had RCD as a big risk when he was selected. Covid had nothing to do with their failures as it was they were never good enough. Many players out of their drafts have played on and made it.
Richmond 2022 has realised that some of these guys are rubbish and are playing HRS, Sonsie , Gibcus and others before them. It's the nature of the beast that not all players will make it. Ross is now best 22 IMHO and has come on bc he's now developed perfectly and reached maturity to be an AFL footballer.

 

[Hounddd]

Can't nail every draft pick - no club does.

Our recruiters have been outstanding, especially given how many current core players were picked up late in the draft/rookie draft. We have been the best team of the last 5years and still recruited some real talent. Yes Will Martyn and RCD look like busts but its not like every player picked in the 20s and 40s by other clubs has turned into 200 game players.

Our strike rate in the last 10 years has been brilliant.

 

[_RT_]

Rubbish i labelled Martyn a spud from day one and the draft spotters on here had RCD as a big risk when he was selected. Covid had nothing to do with their failures as it was they were never good enough. Many players out of their drafts have played on and made it.
Richmond 2022 has realised that some of these guys are rubbish and are playing HRS, Sonsie , Gibcus and others before them. It's the nature of the beast that not all players will make it. Ross is now best 22 IMHO and has come on bc he's now developed perfectly and reached maturity to be an AFL footballer.

You must be so proud to have labelled a kid who hadn't even stepped foot on Punt Road Oval let alone played a game for the club a spud

Tell me TI, did Covid impact you in any way personally? Did it knock you about? Did it impact your life in a negative way?

Or

Were you simply not good enough to begin with and Covid had no impact on you at all?

This isn't an attack on you, I'm trying to put it to you in a way that hopefully allows you to understand that kids who are trying to make it in the highest league in the country and not being able to improve because they aren't playing games, is a justifiable reason as to why they didn't develop as most of us hoped they would when they were drafted.

 

[TigerImposter]

You must be so proud to have labelled a kid who hadn't even stepped foot on Punt Road Oval let alone played a game for the club a spud

Tell me TI, did Covid impact you in any way personally? Did it knock you about? Did it impact your life in a negative way?

Or

Were you simply not good enough to begin with and Covid had no impact on you at all?

This isn't an attack on you, I'm trying to put it to you in a way that hopefully allows you to understand that kids who are trying to make it in the highest league in the country and not being able to improve because they aren't playing games, is a justifiable reason as to why they didn't develop as most of us hoped they would when they were drafted.

Covid-19 was the best thing that ever happened to me as I was able to start a new life and move to the country where I grew up and start a dog breeding business. I’ve built kennels and all the infrastructure for the dogs. When I first arrived my family farm was infested with drug addicts and criminals. They trashed our family home, stole $100,000 of timber forest for their habits and destroyed my Grandparents original cottage. All of this was happening during my marriage breakup and I was robbed tortured and bashed by these thugs. It took five months to clean them out with eleven men going to jail. During that horrible period young women were being drugged and r*ped which I had to protect and shelter. I spent over $15k doing this of money that had to go into my business. After I cleaned them out a person who I’d known for 45yrs and I trusted was caught stealing from me which was a massive last kick in the guts. Losers only sit there and do nothing with their lives and sit there wallowing in misery. You can achieve things if you remove negative people and thoughts from your life is what I gained during Covid-19 and I would never take any of that experience back as it’s made me a confident, stronger, unselfish and just a better person in the community.

 

[TigerImposter]

You must be so proud to have labelled a kid who hadn't even stepped foot on Punt Road Oval let alone played a game for the club a spud

Tell me TI, did Covid impact you in any way personally? Did it knock you about? Did it impact your life in a negative way?

Or

Were you simply not good enough to begin with and Covid had no impact on you at all?

This isn't an attack on you, I'm trying to put it to you in a way that hopefully allows you to understand that kids who are trying to make it in the highest league in the country and not being able to improve because they aren't playing games, is a justifiable reason as to why they didn't develop as most of us hoped they would when they were drafted.

And don’t ever try and tell me what or who I am supposed to be. Especially when you’re comparing me to footballers who have been given a talent where they could make a career out of a sporting pleasure as they've been employed and paid for at least 4 years by the RFC. Then you're telling me they've shit the bed bc of Covid for this luxury been gifted to them. All you actually achieved in this was telling us all that they were mentally weak human beings that give up too easily and were never going to make it anyway. Most junior comps were affected by covid which meant players younger than the players you've mentioned should have also suffered, yet some have moved straight passed them.

 

[panatha1908]

So back to rebuild or refresh. We have picked up guns like Bolton and balta who are A+, and our last two drafts have a really impressive 10ish players or so who are underdone. They have had a ywar of vfl this year and with another preseason we will really bulk up.

We have lost some champs like Lambert and possibly edwards this year but their bodies are broken and the younger players will freshen us. I think we are in a great spot. We definitely need the development coaches to be beefed up. It's good Parker left, take our draft picks this year and we are going for it next year.

A free agent helps as in we dont lose our draft picks. And if anyone wants to leave , like deledio did, then happy to make it happen in exchange for picks again. Building the new dynasty gents!!

 

[Mr Magic]

So back to rebuild or refresh. We have picked up guns like Bolton and balta who are A+, and our last two drafts have a really impressive 10ish players or so who are underdone. They have had a ywar of vfl this year and with another preseason we will really bulk up.

We have lost some champs like Lambert and possibly edwards this year but their bodies are broken and the younger players will freshen us. I think we are in a great spot. We definitely need the development coaches to be beefed up. It's good Parker left, take our draft picks this year and we are going for it next year.

A free agent helps as in we dont lose our draft picks. And if anyone wants to leave , like deledio did, then happy to make it happen in exchange for picks again. Building the new dynasty gents!!

Agree, the game is changing.

The umpires change the rule interpretation all the time to. Melbourne killed themselves last night on handball to especially in the second half with Oliver.

I think Hardwick needs to spin the magnets more. I have said it before but even in the reserves. I would put RCD on a wing and think about playing Pickett more forward, like a highish half forward and see what happens. Maybe even put Ralphsmith in as a centre in reserves, see how that goes.

I like how Brown is playing on one of the wings in the seconds

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Our coaches have got carried away with themselves and tried to build individuals into something they are not rather than accepting who they are and how they play . To many young players have been tamed and gone backwards the longer they have been involved , no only have they gone backwards but they’ve looked confused.
Inside mids come into the side and play outside , forwards go back and backs go forward .
I’m all for versatility but sometimes you’ve got to let players have a bit of rope and flair .
By trying to get players in to ‘replace’ premiership stars we’ve pigeon holed developing players .

 

[Mr Magic]

Our coaches have got carried away with themselves and tried to build individuals into something they are not rather than accepting who they are and how they play . To many young players have been tamed and gone backwards the longer they have been involved , no only have they gone backwards but they’ve looked confused.
Inside mids come into the side and play outside , forwards go back and backs go forward .
I’m all for versatility but sometimes you’ve got to let players have a bit of rope and flair .
By trying to get players in to ‘replace’ premiership stars we’ve pigeon holed developing players .

I think there is to much obsession with the system rather than different players having a different system.

The Pies have a different group, they can play differently to Melbourne. Look at the kick to handball ratio of teh Pies versus Melbourne. No wonder Melbourne drop off in second halves apart from their talls, too busy getting buggered from too much run from handball

 

[_RT_]

Covid-19 was the best thing that ever happened to me as I was able to start a new life and move to the country where I grew up and start a dog breeding business. I’ve built kennels and all the infrastructure for the dogs. When I first arrived my family farm was infested with drug addicts and criminals. They trashed our family home, stole $100,000 of timber forest for their habits and destroyed my Grandparents original cottage. All of this was happening during my marriage breakup and I was robbed tortured and bashed by these thugs. It took five months to clean them out with eleven men going to jail. During that horrible period young women were being drugged and r*ped which I had to protect and shelter. I spent over $15k doing this of money that had to go into my business. After I cleaned them out a person who I’d known for 45yrs and I trusted was caught stealing from me which was a massive last kick in the guts. Losers only sit there and do nothing with their lives and sit there wallowing in misery. You can achieve things if you remove negative people and thoughts from your life is what I gained during Covid-19 and I would never take any of that experience back as it’s made me a confident, stronger, unselfish and just a better person in the community.

First off that's great that you were able to achieve the things that you did and I'm sorry that it came at the cost of your marriage breaking down, but I have no doubt there were times during the 2020 & 2021 years where you doubted yourself or felt like the effort was too much and it had got you flat. It's no different to what these kids have gone through. 2020 they had to uproot their lives and move to a hub where it was basically eat sleep & train with a scratch match every weekend. Even the strongest of minds struggled in that situation with some of our senior players really struggling with the move to the hub and it had an initial impact on their performances.

And don’t ever try and tell me what or who I am supposed to be. Especially when you’re comparing me to footballers who have been given a talent where they could make a career out of a sporting pleasure as they've been employed and paid for at least 4 years by the RFC. Then you're telling me they've s**t the bed bc of Covid for this luxury been gifted to them. All you actually achieved in this was telling us all that they were mentally weak human beings that give up too easily and were never going to make it anyway. Most junior comps were affected by covid which meant players younger than the players you've mentioned should have also suffered, yet some have moved straight passed them.

Never told you who or what you're supposed to be, I asked a question in response to your statement that you'd called Martyn a bust from day 1. Players that are good enough to make it to the top level are far from what I'd call weak minded given it takes years of dedication and discipline to reach that level in the first place and like anything that you do in life, if you're not able to do it at a consistent level over a consistent period of time, you're never going to improve your ability to perform that task.

Now sure some younger kids may have gone past them, that happens, but I'll maintain the stance that the inability for those players on the list during 20/21 were impacted by not being able to play games because of Covid.

 

[TigerImposter]

First off that's great that you were able to achieve the things that you did and I'm sorry that it came at the cost of your marriage breaking down, but I have no doubt there were times during the 2020 & 2021 years where you doubted yourself or felt like the effort was too much and it had got you flat. It's no different to what these kids have gone through. 2020 they had to uproot their lives and move to a hub where it was basically eat sleep & train with a scratch match every weekend. Even the strongest of minds struggled in that situation with some of our senior players really struggling with the move to the hub and it had an initial impact on their performances.

Never told you who or what you're supposed to be, I asked a question in response to your statement that you'd called Martyn a bust from day 1. Players that are good enough to make it to the top level are far from what I'd call weak minded given it takes years of dedication and discipline to reach that level in the first place and like anything that you do in life, if you're not able to do it at a consistent level over a consistent period of time, you're never going to improve your ability to perform that task.

Now sure some younger kids may have gone past them, that happens, but I'll maintain the stance that the inability for those players on the list during 20/21 were impacted by not being able to play games because of Covid.

Mate when you have to get a job done you don't shit the bed.

 

[_RT_]

Mate when you have to get a job done you don't s**t the bed.

Guess I must be a weak minded spud then given I had a mental breakdown during 2020.

 

[db26]

What gives me confidence is that we blooded a few kids this year and found a few gems so transition is underway we have gone the opposite to Hawks and Cats just topping up.

 

[Mr Magic]

What gives me confidence is that we blooded a few kids this year and found a few gems so transition is underway we have gone the opposite to Hawks and Cats just topping up.

Draft is the way to go

 

[Morro]

Our coaches have got carried away with themselves and tried to build individuals into something they are not rather than accepting who they are and how they play . To many young players have been tamed and gone backwards the longer they have been involved , no only have they gone backwards but they’ve looked confused.
Inside mids come into the side and play outside , forwards go back and backs go forward .
I’m all for versatility but sometimes you’ve got to let players have a bit of rope and flair .
By trying to get players in to ‘replace’ premiership stars we’ve pigeon holed developing players .

Which contradicts everything we identified in 2016. Its so confusing to supporters, imagine being a player

 

[Football Tragic]

The coaches try and teach our players to play a variety of roles for many reasons. It's not to cripple their development but to enhance it. Players often need to be challenged and sometimes blossom unexpectedly as a result. Even to themselves.

Off the top of my head Rioli was moved into the backline at VFL level. He was instrumental as a small forward during our premiership years but became too defensive. He was very reluctant to make the change but the move proved to be revolutionary to our side and his career. Vlaustin came into our side as a midfielder. At different staged he even demanded over preseason that he be given the opportunity to play as a midfielder. We know now that he is one of the best defenders in the league. Going back a bit further, Richo almost won a Brownlow after being moved to the wing.

Sometimes it is too difficult to find opportunity in our side when we have a star already playing in that position. Young players might have all the talent in the world and be killing it at VFL level but still can't get a game because there is someone playing even better in their position at AFL level. If the coaches enable them the opportunity to play in a variety of roles and positions then their form can be rewarded with games.

Lastly, disasters and injuries occur during games. If you have a player who can play a mixture of positions and roles, they are far more valuable than one who can't.

I can appreciate what people are saying though - why draft a player who is a talent midfielder to only play them on a wing? What I do hope though, is that people see that players need opportunities to grow and experience different roles, for themselves and for our team moving forward.

 

[tunksy]

Guess I must be a weak minded spud then given I had a mental breakdown during 2020.

Hope you're doing ok now mate <3

 

[_RT_]

Hope you're doing ok now mate <3

Still have my ups and downs

 

[Mr Magic]

The coaches try and teach our players to play a variety of roles for many reasons. It's not to cripple their development but to enhance it. Players often need to be challenged and sometimes blossom unexpectedly as a result. Even to themselves.

Off the top of my head Rioli was moved into the backline at VFL level. He was instrumental as a small forward during our premiership years but became too defensive. He was very reluctant to make the change but the move proved to be revolutionary to our side and his career. Vlaustin came into our side as a midfielder. At different staged he even demanded over preseason that he be given the opportunity to play as a midfielder. We know now that he is one of the best defenders in the league. Going back a bit further, Richo almost won a Brownlow after being moved to the wing.

Sometimes it is too difficult to find opportunity in our side when we have a star already playing in that position. Young players might have all the talent in the world and be killing it at VFL level but still can't get a game because there is someone playing even better in their position at AFL level. If the coaches enable them the opportunity to play in a variety of roles and positions then their form can be rewarded with games.

Lastly, disasters and injuries occur during games. If you have a player who can play a mixture of positions and roles, they are far more valuable than one who can't.

I can appreciate what people are saying though - why draft a player who is a talent midfielder to only play them on a wing? What I do hope though, is that people see that players need opportunities to grow and experience different roles, for themselves and for our team moving forward.

I can't believe Rioli's goals from fifty and beyond. Impressive, like Shorty and Baker

 

[Grrr]

Rubbish i labelled Martyn a spud from day one and the draft spotters on here had RCD as a big risk when he was selected. Covid had nothing to do with their failures as it was they were never good enough. Many players out of their drafts have played on and made it.
Richmond 2022 has realised that some of these guys are rubbish and are playing HRS, Sonsie , Gibcus and others before them. It's the nature of the beast that not all players will make it. Ross is now best 22 IMHO and has come on bc he's now developed perfectly and reached maturity to be an AFL footballer.

'Ross will make it because he has reached maturity.' Ross was a man child when he entered the game, Vic captain of the U16 side and still has taken a few years to settle into the game.

RCD has come from a lot further back and is about a year behind Ross in development. He has put on about 10kg's since arriving and is now just starting to string games together where he looks fit and strong enough to play out full games. Too bad for the bye as it would have been interesting to see if he beat up on poor sides and went back to form against the good ones or continued his good form.

As backup mids go, Dow is also an interesting one because for all his assets he butchers the ball a fair bit. Can he get that part of his game together. Depth is still needed so RCD I think is needed next year. With all our exits we will need to keep the nucleus of our young brigade together as protection at the very least of younger draftees coming in. RCD will again improve next year, remains to be seen if that is good enough. Like Dow he has a fair set of tools to work with which is half way there.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Rcd > Ross

 

[Grrr]

Rcd > Ross

Potentially only so far.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Potentially only so far.

That's what I meant

 

[JR82]

What gives me confidence is that we blooded a few kids this year and found a few gems so transition is underway we have gone the opposite to Hawks and Cats just topping up.

Even before last yr we were the opposite to LOLthorn. While they were up they topped up while we hit the draft while winning flags. We are already starting to see that pay off & we should avoid the "bottoming out" phase they are currently going through.