Recycled vs First Time Coaches

[Juddernaut08]

If you look at the total list of coaches who didn't win a flag at their first job, but did subsequently, it's not a big list.

Blight
Malthouse
Norm Smith
Robert Walls
Vic Belcher

And I think that's it.

On the other hand, 8 past premiership coaches have gone to another club and won a flag. Not a huge number, either.

Didnt Malthouse win at WCE?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Didnt Malthouse win at WCE?

Was his second job. Was at Footscray before us

 

[juss]

For all the talk of recycled coaches not being successful there are plenty of first time coaches who have crashed and burned.

Fair, but if someone said to you you can take the highest rated assistant coach in the land and give him a go, or you can take Alan Richardson, it's pretty clear who you take the punt on.

If you take a recycled coach they need to be proven successful premiership coaches, don't take any old coach because they have coached before.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Fair, but if someone said to you you can take the highest rated assistant coach in the land and give him a go, or you can take Alan Richardson, it's pretty clear who you take the punt on.

If you take a recycled coach they need to be proven successful premiership coaches, don't take any old coach because they have coached before.

Alan Richardson has never been successful as a head coach so foolish to give him another job now. Rotten and voss are good counter examples though. They’ve been head coaches with mixed success but have gone in and did hard yards as assistants since then and are still youngish. Reckon they’d be worth a shot

 

[Damon_3388]

Interestingly, I think there has only been 10 senior coaches with past senior coaching experience in that time:

Gary Ayres, Leigh Matthews, Denis Pagan, Mick Malthouse, Ross Lyon, Rodney Eade, Kevin Sheedy, Paul Roos, Terry Wallace, Malcolm Blight

Sheedy and Roos were also there to setup their clubs (GWS and Melbourne) for the future and then handed over to first time coaches.

So there isn't really a big list of recycled coaches. The trend has been to select someone with assistant coach experience to then build a side and make their mark. This has likely always been the case in sports all over the world, right? Unless it's a big time sorta coach... remembering a number of those were head hunted for their roles, so not really "recycled" like coaches like Brett Ratten or Brad Scott would necessarily be.

Actually, most sports seem to favour "recycled" coaches and managers, even if they haven't reached the ultimate success elsewhere.

Given that the talent pool is relatively thin and specialised, our favouritism of first-time head coaches is pretty unusual, really.

 

[Wallaby]

OK - expanded this a bit more.

Recycled coaches who later won a flag at their 2nd (or later club)

a) After previously winning a flag - 8.
b) After not winning a flag - 5

Recycled coaches who didn't win a flag at their 2nd (or later club)
a) After previously winning a flag - 23. (Technically less - Sheedy at GWS, Roos at Melbourne, Jeans at Richmond, maybe Thompson at Essendon - how do you rate these).

b) After not winning a flag - about 40-ish (trying only to count those who had at least at season at both clubs. EG, Alan Richardson is credited with coaching a game at Port, Bolton is Hawthorn's most successful coach ever by win %).

First time coaches who didn't win a flag - about 200 - 220. Almost impossible to tell without analysing each coach's individual record. Stacks of one-off, interim coaches who only coaches a couple of games. If tried to restrict it to those who did at least a season's worth of games.

And I'm not starting the Bob Rush argument again.

Now obviously, coaching conditions were entirely different back in the early part of the 20th century. Also, back in the 'amateur' days, the bigger, more successful culbs were probably able to afford the better (ie past premiership) coaches.

Interestingly, Parkin, Malthouse and Barassi fit into several categories. Parkin won first up (at Hawks), then won at Carlton, failed at Fitzroy, and won again at Carlton.

What does it all mean? F****ed if I know - but - I reckon the numbers show that there IS a clear benefit to employing a former premiership coach.

 

[Engimal v3]

North Melbourne also never finished in the top four. You aren’t really contending if that’s the case.

Strange argument. If you are one of the last remaining 4 teams in an 18 team competition, you're probably a contender. If you do it two years in a row, you're definitely a contender. Are you telling me that the 2016 premiers weren't contenders in 2016?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Strange argument. If you are one of the last remaining 4 teams in an 18 team competition, you're probably a contender. If you do it two years in a row, you're definitely a contender. Are you telling me that the 2016 premiers weren't contenders in 2016?

I’m saying that history shows you must be top 4 to win the flag, the dogs being the only exception? So getting to two prelims in a row from 6th 8th and losing them reasonably convincingly, while applaudable, doesn’t strike me as a contender.

 

[Turnover]

SEN (terry and another bloke) were talking about this just before. Stop giving these blokes material big footy.

 

[Engimal v3]

I’m saying that history shows you must be top 4 to win the flag, the dogs being the only exception? So getting to two prelims in a row from 6th 8th and losing them reasonably convincingly, while applaudable, doesn’t strike me as a contender.

More of a contender than 14 other teams in an 18 team competition.

 

[demondavey]

Unless the recycled coach is proven, don't bother. I'm in the first timer camp, give someone a go who could be great, don't take someone who didn't get it done like a Brad Scott (no offence).

Well it is offensive so don’t say no offence. Other than that I tend to agree a first timer is a good result.

 

[big_e]

North Melbourne also never finished in the top four. You aren’t really contending if that’s the case.

I don’t like Scott but will conceded he’s a solid coach, but even north fans seemed to admit he’s not innovative or flexible on game days, like the best coaches are.

North Melbourne finished fourth in 2014 and 2015.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

North Melbourne finished fourth in 2014 and 2015.

Alright champ.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Well recycled coaches are recycled either because they want a move, often for personal reasons like Mick Malthouse movung back to Vic, or because they're sacked: usually the former. Unless they get a really good deal. If they're really successful and keep up their success they usually stay at a club during their peak coaching years.