Reserves team hypothetical

[*PAF]

I have posted the same thread on the port board.

If you had a reserves team in the previous 5 or so years ... would it have made a difference?

FWIW On the Port board I voted No, not at all.

 

[Sanders]

In terms of development, it has to.

Being able to position a player not where he is best now, but where he needs to learn to make it at next level has to be an advantage

Has to

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Who knows, player development is a funny thing.

 

[*PAF]

In terms of development, it has to.

Being able to position a player not where he is best now, but where he needs to learn to make it at next level has to be an advantage

Has to

If you were able to pick and choose SANFL clubs based on the above (such as moved McKernan much earlier than you did) would you change your mind?

 

[Bacon8]

I think the difference would be for supporters, allowing them to see Player 23 in the same team as Player 24 and compare their outputs better.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I think the difference would be for supporters, allowing them to see Player 23 in the same team as Player 24 and compare their outputs better.

No it wouldn't. It would be automatic feedback. Rather than wait 24 or 48 hours until they get back to the club Monday morning and do a game review.

The reserves coach can give that feedback at quarter time et el based on instructions given by the senior coach, not a coach who has very different motives to the club itself.

It's about allowing the players to have one club based direction - not just playing and turning up to training every Friday night for 45 minutes.

 

[*PAF]

I think the difference would be for supporters, allowing them to see Player 23 in the same team as Player 24 and compare their outputs better.

Supporters would like to see their AFL team win or at the very least compete.
At one stage a few years back Port had six (yes 6 ) ruckmen on it's list and recently you've had a plethora of talls many that were being groomed for similar positions. In a reserves team you would still have the issue of playing them out of position.

 

[Smoooothy]

its a bit of an unknown at the moment

but if you have a look at how successful its been in the VFL since geelong, collingwood etc have had their own standalone reserves sides, it should atleast be semi successful.

i for one won't be breaking my allegences with the roosters to support them, but i'll definately be keeping an eye on them

 

[*PAF]

No it wouldn't. It would be automatic feedback. Rather than wait 24 or 48 hours until they get back to the club Monday morning and do a game review.

The reserves coach can give that feedback at quarter time et el based on instructions given by the senior coach, not a coach who has very different motives to the club itself.

It's about allowing the players to have one club based direction - not just playing and turning up to training every Friday night for 45 minutes.

That is definitely a positive. Its just that IMO it is just about the only positive.

 

[*PAF]

its a bit of an unknown at the moment

but if you have a look at how successful its been in the VFL since geelong, collingwood etc have had their own standalone reserves sides, it should atleast be semi successful.

i for one won't be breaking my allegences with the roosters to support them, but i'll definately be keeping an eye on them

On the Port board I have posted that the two best performed teams in recent times have been Brisbane and Geelong.

To do a Brisbane you need a Melbourne based club to fold and for the Crows to have first dibs at their players.
To do a Geelong you need to start supplying Viagra to all ex players that meet your FS criteria.

Collingwood, Sydney and WCE much of a meh, Hawthorn had more to do with striking it lucky with compensation picks.
Although both Collingwood and WCE have had more than their fair share of compensation picks as well.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

That is definitely a positive. Its just that IMO it is just about the only positive.

And the only positive needed.

As much as we butch, moan and complain about having a say in the direction if the club, footy clubs are not about the members, supporters or even the board - it's about the players.

Without the players, we don't care, we don't watch and we don't turn up. Therefore, their development is the only positive needed.

 

[*PAF]

And the only positive needed.

As much as we butch, moan and complain about having a say in the direction if the club, footy clubs are not about the members, supporters or even the board - it's about the players.

Without the players, we don't care, we don't watch and we don't turn up. Therefore, their development is the only positive needed.

I was talking about the only positive wrt player development. A lot of good development can and does happen by playing in different SANFL clubs and in particular in clubs that you originally started with.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I was talking about the only positive wrt player development. A lot of good development can and does happen by playing in different SANFL clubs and in particular in clubs that you originally started with.

And so does negativity.

Looking at a newly drafted 17 year old, does the positivity of getting farmed out to an SANFL club over shadow any negative attributes that will occur?

17 year old kids in 2013 are vey different to 17 year old kids in the 1980's and 1990's when this footy movement first started.

 

[*PAF]

And so does negativity.

Looking at a newly drafted 17 year old, does the positivity of getting farmed out to an SANFL club over shadow any negative attributes that will occur?
...

Even that has both positives and negatives.
Going by what gets written in the media and posted on these boards, playing for a team away from the AFL environment has benefited a number a number of players wrt settling in in Adelaide rather than settling in at Port or the AFC.

...

17 year old kids in 2013 are vey different to 17 year old kids in the 1980's and 1990's when this footy movement first started.

Gone are the steel capped boots that coaches had for starters, but we won't go there.

 

[*PAF]

I am fighting a lone battle on two boards at once.
I am up to it but if anybody wants to help it would be much appreciated.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

*PAF


If farming players out to alternative teams, why doesn't any other SANFL club do it, WAFL, VFL, (pre and pst AFL) and I feel since footy clubs have been around fir 120 odd years, they would have amassed enough data to gain a true response.

However, port AFL and the Crows have been only doing thus for 20 years and have had no end of trouble gaining a solid understanding.

The positives of having a reserves side outweigh any if the negatives towards it and the negatives towards farming players out outweigh the positives.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I am fighting a lone battle on two boards at once.
I am up to it but if anybody wants to help it would be much appreciated.

That's because reserves sides have been around for 120 years compared to 20 in our own small environment.

 

[*PAF]

*PAF


If farming players out to alternative teams, why doesn't any other SANFL club do it, WAFL, VFL, (pre and pst AFL) and I feel since footy clubs have been around fir 120 odd years, they would have amassed enough data to gain a true response.

However, port AFL and the Crows have been only doing thus for 20 years and have had no end of trouble gaining a solid understanding.

The positives of having a reserves side outweigh any if the negatives towards it and the negatives towards farming players out outweigh the positives.

Go back a few years and the Victorian clubs were saying that we (WA and SA) had the best system, that was back when the top 8 was made up of interstate teams and a couple of Victorian team were in there to make up numbers. The wheel has turned and all of a sudden the Victorian system is better, IMO it will turn again as it always does.

If you look at the teams that have done well in recent times (since 2004) having had a reserves team is probably the smallest contributing factor.

WCE no reserves team at the time.
Geelong FS.
Sydney increased salary cap.
Hawthorn struck it lucky with priority and high draft picks.
Collingwood high draft picks including concessions and lots of off field spending plus plain old fashioned hard yakka.
Adelaide Just did it in the plain old fashioned way.
Port are now rebuilding in the old fashioned way and IMO our massive negative years had more to do with reduced off field spending (directed to reduce off field spending as were some struggling Melbourne clubs) than a reserves team.

 

[*PAF]

That's because reserves sides have been around for 120 years compared to 20 in our own small environment.

Not for AFL clubs they haven't.

 

[Vader]

Supporters would like to see their AFL team win or at the very least compete.
At one stage a few years back Port had six (yes 6 ) ruckmen on it's list and recently you've had a plethora of talls many that were being groomed for similar positions. In a reserves team you would still have the issue of playing them out of position.

The reality is that this problem only really applies to ruckmen. Most teams can accommodate 2 of them, with maybe a 3rd playing a KPP role in the forward line or defence. It's not as big a problem as you might think.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Not for AFL clubs they haven't.

Well, when did reserves sides come into the old VFL that is now the AFL?

And development is more than performance, it's about player wellbeing, physiological and fitting in.

 

[*PAF]

Well, when did reserves sides come into the old VFL that is now the AFL?

And development is more than performance, it's about player wellbeing, physiological and fitting in.

I am not 100% sure and will require google but IIRC at some stage the Melbourne based AFL clubs started affiliating with what are now VFL clubs and I believe it might still be the case with some. Some clubs have moved away from that and have their own VFL teams. I am not sure if any had their own teams to start with.

...
And development is more than performance, it's about player wellbeing, physiological and fitting in.

100% agree but I am not sure having a reserves team will change this part that much.

 

[*PAF]

The reality is that this problem only really applies to ruckmen. Most teams can accommodate 2 of them, with maybe a 3rd playing a KPP role in the forward line or defence. It's not as big a problem as you might think.

This is from my post on the Port board. It is a reply to a different question but I believe the middle part it applies somewhat to yours as well.


The biggest **** up we have done was not move Giles from Centrals whilst he was on our list.
The best thing we have done was to move Lobbe and Surjan. One to and one from the Magpies.

How would playing for a SANFL team that gets flogged more often than not and struggles with filling crucial positions help develop players? Would we still put players under the knife early if it meant we wouldn't have enough players for our SANFL team?

It will not be the best of the Magpies plus the AFL players but AFL players plus top ups.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I am not 100% sure and will require google but IIRC at some stage the Melbourne based AFL clubs started affiliating with what are now VFL clubs and I believe it might still be the case with some. Some clubs have moved away from that and have their own VFL teams. I am not sure if any had their own teams to start with.

So we are on the same page, I'm talking pre crows. Like 1940's to 1995 when the AFL reservers were disbanded.

100% agree but I am not sure having a reserves team will change this part that much.

I think it will.

Imagine you are a 17 year old apprentice carpenter and within 2 months of starting your apprenticeship, you're asked to go work with a brand new set of carpenters 3 days a week in a very different environment.

Your first 5 or 6 weeks or even months will be very difficult until you made some friends. Hopefully they give you a ho, are fair to you and don't treat you like a dog.

However, don't you think the carpenters at the new place wouldn't get pissed off that you have taken one if there mates place and would feel agitated? Increasing the risk of them giving you a hard time or nit kicking the ball to you?

Now, if you worked 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year with the person and group of carpenters who employed you would make a much easier transition? Your development and skill acquisition would increase at a much faster rate?

I know where I'd rather be working.

 

[BigLefty]

I voted "yes a little", because it was the closest option to "possibly but I cant say with certainty".

It wasn't specified in the OP, but assuming you mean with a reserves team in the SANFL, then I think there would have been a benefit (maybe not much, but some benefit at least). If it's a Crows in the SANFL ressies, then hell no. If it's its the Crows in the VFL, then probably more than in the SANFL as they can get used to the travel routine.

FWIW I'm against a Crows and Port in the SANFL because I think it will eventually destroy the local league as the next generation don't care at all about the SANFL clubs. I also think it will change the perception of the SANFL from being the best league available at state level, to being the AFL reserves comp. Right now people do still care who wins the SANFL flag. fast forward 20 years and no-one will give a stuff who wins the AFL reserves flag.

It's a small variation in how it's perceived, but one that I think will harm the league.