Response to tanking...

[audas]

This is not about the merits of tanking or not, rather an argument I saw on the main board for whether we tanked or not. All spelling and grammar aside, really good argument.

So your sayin Carlton should have been top four this year?

We ment to loose our last six against the saints on a four game winning run, the pies who pushed geelong, Port in adelaide who made the granny, kangaroos at the dome who finished top four, Kevin Sheedy and Hirds last game at the g, and then had 11 of our first 22 unavailable against melbourne.

Surely if you think we were better than Port, Collingwood, the saints and the kangaroos this year, but lost on purpose, then you saw a different carlton play to the one i pay membership to!

Build your bridge and get over Judd

Cheers to lopezz...

 

[iRemember87]

Very similar to all my replies regarding the tanking issue in BigFooty


Before round 1 Carlton were the popular pick for Wooden Spoon so to the media, opposition teams and supporters that claim Carlton tanked, lets look at out 11 loses....

Carlton sat bottom 3 all year, pretty much with Melb and Richmond.....

In the last 11 games we played the following teams, in order from round 12 to 22 and points margin and ladder position at end of season;
Rd. 12 - Hawthorn lost by 100 (finished 5th)
Rd. 13 - Freo lost by 77 (finished 11th and the game was at Subi)
Rd. 14 - Melb lost by 23 (finished 14th)
Rd. 15 - Swans lost by 62 (finished 7th)
Rd. 16 - Brisbane lost by 117 (finished 10th)
Rd. 17 - St Kilda lost by 10 (finished 9th)
Rd. 18 - Collingwood lost by 24 (finished 6th)
Rd. 19 - Port lost by 23 (finished 2nd and played in GF)
Rd. 20 - Essendon lost by 10 (finished 12th)
Rd. 21 - Kangas lost by 82 (finished 4th)
Rd. 22 - Melbourne lost by 31 (finished 14th)

- Carlton played 5 top 8 teams (3 from top 5)
- Carlton played 4 teams that up until round 21 were fighting for a top 8 spot, and even up until round 22 were still fighting!!
- Carlton played Melb twice (which is wrong, how can you play the same team twice within 11 weeks, the AFL should be shot for that)
- So of the 11, 9 games we played potential finalists….hhhmmmm

So let me ask all those, who in their opinion Carlton tanked;
- Would you have expected and picked Carlton to win any of these matches?? - my guess is not!!!
- i'm pretty sure when you were all doing your tips you wouldn't have tipped Carlton because all the teams they were playing were in finals or were having a much better season and were stronger!!!....maybe in the 2 games against Melb but both were toss of the coin matches.

So how is Carlton tanking??? Was Richmond and Melb tanking?? cause the theory applies to Carlton surely it applies to both Melb and Rich, but again i'm sure nobody was tipping those teams either, cause why would you when they were playing teams BETTER and HIGHER than them!!!

So this just means that each week, nobody was expecting Richmond, Carlton or Melbourne to have any chance of winning, not one ounce, but still everybody find reasons to claim Carlton were tanking....

 

[Juddernaut08]

This is not about the merits of tanking or not, rather an argument I saw on the main board for whether we tanked or not. All spelling and grammar aside, really good argument.



Cheers to lopezz...

agreed

 

[lopezz]

This is not about the merits of tanking or not, rather an argument I saw on the main board for whether we tanked or not. All spelling and grammar aside, really good argument.



Cheers to lopezz...

Thanks mate...In my mind we had a good crack but were not good enough! We will be soon though

 

[OniAu]

any other club supporter who is having a cry over tanking, woulda been wishing their team didnt win aswell. you did more than not win, you had some very reasonable games towards the end of the season, whilst palying youngsters(kangas lost excluded) and still managed to keep the games competitive and im sure some carlton supporters were worried with ur performances aswell with coming so close to a win a few times lol especially that last bombers game

 

[audas]

Anyway, sorry for dragging up the past, appreciate the well considered positions on it.

Anyway back now to next year, it is going to be hard to explain smashing teams next year

 

[DIG]

I think what got people was that we were in winning positions towards the end of some of those games but were run over at the end.

But it's a great point lopezz.

 

[Hells K1tch3n]

Hey guys, first things first. Ive said many a time, i cant wait for carlton to start winning games again. Carlton losing games isnt good for football and its been very hard to hate the blues of recent times. Secondly, dont hate the player hate the game. The only game of the last 11 from 2007 i see as evidence of tanking is the StKilda game, you had them on the ropes but stopped attacking even though it was winning you the game. But i dont begrudge the carlton football club for at the very least attempting the game of playing for picks, i begrudge the system that rewards failure and entices teams to do it, let alone gives supporters a reason to "hope" that they lose.

Football is about winning, its all it should be about and a change to the draft should be looked at, there must be better ways of allocating draft picks, but the longer we leave it, the harder it is to change it.

 

[Bluebear]

Hey guys, first things first. Ive said many a time, i cant wait for carlton to start winning games again. Carlton losing games isnt good for football and its been very hard to hate the blues of recent times. Secondly, dont hate the player hate the game. The only game of the last 11 from 2007 i see as evidence of tanking is the StKilda game, you had them on the ropes but stopped attacking even though it was winning you the game.

So when they flooded because we were spanking them, and instead of just bombing it to their numbers we choose (as most teams do, except us under Pagan) to chip it around and hit a target, thats stopping attacking is it? That's your evidence?
Did you notice how our players conserved their energy in that period of the game while the Saints continued to flood burning up their fuel.............just remind me how the last 5 minutes went again?

But i dont begrudge the carlton football club for at the very least attempting the game of playing for picks, i begrudge the system that rewards failure and entices teams to do it, let alone gives supporters a reason to "hope" that they lose.

Football is about winning, its all it should be about and a change to the draft should be looked at, there must be better ways of allocating draft picks, but the longer we leave it, the harder it is to change it.

One team tanked this year, and they reside at Punt road........pre-match the coach states that its not in their intetrests to win, and if they were in the lead late inthe game he wouldn't be upset if they lost...............and what happened?
They were leading.......Bowden had just had 10 possies in 5 minutes and was domionating off half back and...........called to the bench.......

Gets them the PP this year and insurance for next year...............

Fev played after being diagnosed with a 4-5 week quad tear - the tanking debate begins and ends there for the CFC. Biggest non-issue in recent history. The media were so in love with the idea that it could happen that they wrote it up like it did happen.......though no-one at the time was so bold as to print it..........funny that.

 

[Donstuie]

I think the problem was how loudly many Carlton supporters were cheering for losses, that it became easy for those on the outside to get the impression that we were tanking. I've debated this millions of times with my Carlton brethren, and have gone back and forth over the merits of tanking vs the benefits of winning games of football (I'm an anti-tanker btw). The way the performances played out were secondary in forming these peoples' opinions (as was the ridiculous media coverage of this), but it all started with our own supporters cheering and praying for defeat. The media, and in turn opposition supporters, picked up on this and fuelled it.

I feel that we started this, and had we behaved differently, all this crap would've been avoided.

 

[Bluebear]

I think the problem was how loudly many Carlton supporters were cheering for losses, that it became easy for those on the outside to get the impression that we were tanking. I've debated this millions of times with my Carlton brethren, and have gone back and forth over the merits of tanking vs the benefits of winning games of football (I'm an anti-tanker btw). The way the performances played out were secondary in forming these peoples' opinions (as was the ridiculous media coverage of this), but it all started with our own supporters cheering and praying for defeat. The media, and in turn opposition supporters, picked up on this and fuelled it.

I feel that we started this, and had we behaved differently, all this crap would've been avoided.

You have more faith in the media than I do.
There may have been whispers by the fans, but as soon as Ratten took over as coach the media were all over the "he will get the job if he doesn't win another game etc"..........they took a spark and ran with it......and if the spark wasn't there, IMO they would have created it.

Amazing how the Tiges avoided scrutiny in all this.

 

[Beloved]

The only time I really beleive we 'tanked' was Round 22, and by then, no one really gave a s*** anymore.

 

[Donstuie]

You have more faith in the media than I do.
There may have been whispers by the fans, but as soon as Ratten took over as coach the media were all over the "he will get the job if he doesn't win another game etc"..........they took a spark and ran with it......and if the spark wasn't there, IMO they would have created it.

Amazing how the Tiges avoided scrutiny in all this.

Exactly, but where did that spark come from in the first place?

 

[Bluebear]

Exactly, but where did that spark come from in the first place?

True, but isn't it imteresting how none of the media at the time wanted to acccuse us, but just kept the "chatter" going........and now its spoken and written about as if its fact.

Some sparks they choose to light up and others they don't.
No surprise the Tiges didn't rate a mention for tanking in the Age.

 

[Donstuie]

Very true. They didn't want to touch the issue when every second Carlton supporter was ringing SEN going on about how much better it would be to lose and get the #1 draft pick etc etc (and being thrashed by 100 points every week). But suddenly when we have a couple of teams in trouble, but fail to put them away, it's tank city. Suddenly every choice is scrutinised. Who gets put in for surgery, who goes off to the bench, how long they're there for, the way Ratts' eyebrow moves one way when answering a question about it, utterly ridiculous. But it started with us. Maybe they just weren't smart enough to figure it out, and Carlton supporters were ahead of them in that regard. They're not very bright these footy writers, just listen to some of the stupid questions they ask at press conferences after the games. They break every rule of journalism 101.

As for Richmond,
1) It's more fun (and better for circulation) for the media to bash us
2) I don't recall many Richmond people openly hoping to lose, at least until the tanned one came and was subtle as a brick in admitting it.
3) They wouldn't have got the #1 pick out of it, so we should've 'wanted it more'

 

[MBIB]

The only time I really beleive we 'tanked' was Round 22, and by then, no one really gave a s*** anymore.

That was hands down the funniest game I've ever been to. I don't really believe we tanked (as in the literal sense, going out there to lose) but the tactics were strange, as in crap passes to the forward line, more missed shots than usual with no pressure and bombing away from 50 with no target in mind. Bloody hilarious.

People also have to remember that in those last few weeks we played so many kids. A full older side may have been more competitive? We don't know. Personally when we're down the bottom and have the opportunity for number #1 draft pick, I was all up for playing the kids at that time of the year.

And yes, well said Lopezz!

 

[Dramoth]

I think that it pissed off a lot of older Carlton supporters, that wanted the club to win or at least lose with class, that a lot of the younger supporters were openly supporting the team to lose...

I think that hurts a lot more than all this crap talk about tanking. As Bee's sig says... "We dont give a Ratts what you think" and I think that applies to everyone outside of the club. It hurts when someone who was 7 when the club last won a premiership comes out proudly supporting tanking and losing matches. It would have been more prudent to keep ones mouth shut and silently supported losing the matches.

So, the question is... next year if the Tigers are really crap and are firmly entrenched at the foot of the table, will the media start calling them tankers (and we know that they will be tanking) or will the media constantly beat up how poor their list is and how badly they are playing.