Society & Culture Retribution....

[RU_]

If you think prison is a holiday camp, you're insane.

And as a taxpayer, I'm quite content to pay to keep them away from me. In fact some death penalty jurisdictions have found its cheaper to hold a prisoner on a life sentence.

I know it's not a holiday camp, but it's not like he will walk in there and get his throat slit. He just killed 12 people, I doubt he will be around others.

 

[Cynic]

Everyone posting that they would maintain the same position should a friend or family be a victim is wrong. It's like thinking "I understand everyone dies so I won't be affected when a family/friend dies". It just doesn't work like that.

 

[radiojake]

Everyone posting that they would maintain the same position should a friend or family be a victim is wrong. It's like thinking "I understand everyone dies so I won't be affected when a family/friend dies". It just doesn't work like that.

I never said I wouldn't be affected had my brother/mother/father/best friend had been in the cinema - Of course I would be affected - I would be horribly sad and I am sure I would be grasping for answers 'why?' even though it seems rather un-answerable...

Despite how badly I would be affected though, I honestly feel as though I would not have to urge to throw the gunman 'to the sharks' - I've seen plenty of examples of parents who have had children murdered say in interviews something like 'We are not angry, we are upset and feel sorry for the gunman.. we have pity' etc etc.

It's not an uncommon reaction - If we really do abhor the actions that the gunman did, then we can not in all seriousness with a straight face advocate public torture of him, otherwise we become hypocrites and the cycle continues....

It's funny, I've heard capital punishment advocates say that the death penalty is a deterrent... Really? I guess all those murders have stopped in the US considering the affective deterrent is in place....

be the change you want to see -

 

[Cynic]

I never said I wouldn't be affected had my brother/mother/father/best friend had been in the cinema - Of course I would be affected - I would be horribly sad and I am sure I would be grasping for answers 'why?' even though it seems rather un-answerable...

Despite how badly I would be affected though, I honestly feel as though I would not have to urge to throw the gunman 'to the sharks' - I've seen plenty of examples of parents who have had children murdered say in interviews something like 'We are not angry, we are upset and feel sorry for the gunman.. we have pity' etc etc.

It's not an uncommon reaction - If we really do abhor the actions that the gunman did, then we can not in all seriousness with a straight face advocate public torture of him, otherwise this sick mentality will continue to be perpetrated...

be the change you want to see -

I think you are over-rating the humanity of people. They may say that the cameras but it's in our nature to want retribution. It's the same as believing in karma, we feel we need to believe that the good we do will be returned to us or vice versa the bad others do to us back to them.

The concept of a reality where it doesn't matter is probably true but scary to accept.

 

[radiojake]

I think you are over-rating the humanity of people. They may say that the cameras but it's in our nature to want retribution.

I think comments like this are self-prophesying -

"Oh, its human nature that we want retribution *ignores examples of the opposite* so I am going to perpetuate something that is in our nature because there is no point in even questioning it...."

 

[blue_bear1]

Punishment - yes. Retribution - No. However, as alluded to in this thread, views probably change when one becomes personally involved.

 

[jo172]

I often wonder where some people's parents were when the whole "2 wrongs not making a right" thing came up.

My belief is simply that the state has the sole power to punish criminals. State sponsored saidsm, revenge and retribution does not make for a healthy society. To have the government stoop to the level of psychopaths and the deranged would not be a good thing.

 

[red+black]

I want an end to suspended sentences. I want violent criminals to serve longer sentences. I want teenagers to be given adult sentences and transferred to an adult prison when they're 18. Build more prisons if necessary. The number of people incarcerated should not be dependent on prison space. It should be dependent on the level of crime.

 

[Cynic]

I often wonder where some people's parents were when the whole "2 wrongs not making a right" thing came up.

My belief is simply that the state has the sole power to punish criminals. State sponsored saidsm, revenge and retribution does not make for a healthy society. To have the government stoop to the level of psychopaths and the deranged would not be a good thing.

What about if one more wrong stops 10 more wrongs?

 

[Caesar]

Retribution and prevention are two separate things.

 

[jo172]

What about if one more wrong stops 10 more wrongs?

If they're going to be imprisoned for the rest of their life that's hardly likely?

 

[red+black]

If they're going to be imprisoned for the rest of their life that's hardly likely?

How often does a violent criminal receive and serve a sentence commensurate with public expectation?

 

[Caesar]

How often does a violent criminal receive and serve a sentence commensurate with public expectation?

If you get your answer from peer reviewed studies rather than the Herald Sun - almost always.

http://www.smartjustice.org.au/resources/SMART_PublicOpinion.pdf

From 2004-2006, in a Melbourne University study, more than 450 people from across Victoria were surveyed on actual sentencing cases involving serious crimes. Members of the public were given the same information about the crime and the defendant that sentencing judges had.

In half the cases, the average sentence given by members of the public was lower than that given by judges. In the other cases, the sentences were much the same. In no case was the actual sentence given by the judge lenient compared with the average sentence of the public.

The average sentences given by the public also emphasized treatment programs in sentencing to a greater extent than judges.

 

[jo172]

How often does a violent criminal receive and serve a sentence commensurate with public expectation?

Apart from Caesar's point, you're still indugling in a fallacy.

You may rationally have a problem with sentencing, but that's the application rather than the punishment.

 

[Tassieboy]

Retribution is useless. It achieves nothing good - well very rarely.

 

[bunsen burner]

Everyone posting that they would maintain the same position should a friend or family be a victim is wrong. It's like thinking "I understand everyone dies so I won't be affected when a family/friend dies". It just doesn't work like that.

What do you think is sillier: A person who is intune with themselves and knows how they will react to certain situations, or some bell-end on the internet who thinks he knows how other people will react?

 

[bunsen burner]

it's in our nature to want retribution.

Yes it is, but so is jealousy and a heap of other traits that either we, our parents, or society teach out of us. Dumb people don't pick it up, smart people are able to reason that some natural instincts impinge on others and are able to change their thinking.

You do the maths.

 

[JimDocker]

I do not believe in the death penalty. I think it is more of a bloodlust than a genuine attempt at justice.

Having said that, I am not too bothered that people in the aftermath of an incident like the Batman cinema shooting vent a bit of anger and talk about what they would like to do to the killer. It is generally just a bit of hot air.

I do not believe in government sanctioned executions, but if James Holmes was to get r*ped and killed in prison, I would not lose any sleep over it, just as I am not sad about Carl Williams fate or the fact that Chopper Read is dying.

I love the fact that 1 year on from the Norway shooting, that the Norwegian PM has come out with such a strong statement that the shooter there did not get the change in society that he was after.

 

[MrNatural]

I actually believe that him rotting in a jail cell for life is a good punishment.
He spend the rest of his life stewing over what hes done.
Him being executed, will let him off the hook IMO

 

[Roobs321]

Im the same as the OP. When this bloodlust occasionally comes up in the media, it makes me feel a bit sick and lonely. ie. the way people talk about how people like Holmes and Bradley Manning should be physically punished. I just cant relate to that.

I am a pacifist though (christian pacifist/unorthodox anarchist whatever). My set of values are similar to the likes of Tolstoy and Gandhi (Jesus as the teacher). Violence is never moral imo. It's just not in my blood to hurt someone. Then again, this isnt always applicable to real life. ie. some countries under colonial rule need to get out of that situation, sometimes through violence. Or in the case of something like the cannabalistic maoris, pacifists were treated with genocide. I support the efforts of brave soldiers, without supporting wars themself. But in my life, I will never talk about someone needing to be hurt in any way. I just dont understand it, and I think it reflects on an undercurrent of violence and anger in western society.

For instance, when Bin Laden was killed, people were jumping in the streets and cheering. I would never do that. The footage of Gaddafi being killed was also unacceptable. The man deserved human dignity, not to have his unjust slaughter shown on headline news around the world. I thought that was horribly done.

My set of values might be mocked by some, but I just see eye-for-an-eye retribution only leading down a dark road.

 

[skilts]

No, all I am saying is that this guy has killed 12 people and injured at least 30 others, with no motive behind his actions yet. In my OPINION he should be thrown to the sharks, because essentially as I said earlier he is living off tax payers money, and is basically just going to be baby sit by guards. There is no point in him being alive anymore, but once again this is my OPINION.

Your OPINION is that retribution shouldn't be on people's minds, and that being in jail would be a good punishment.

Please avail us of the vast experience you have of being in gaol and your first-hand knowledge of the conditions therein. You seem to be touting yourself as an expert. An opinion held about something of which you know nothing is worthless.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Human rights are for all humans. Even humans that kill other humans.

 

[saintsrfreak]

IMO there should be a special kind of jail for people like him. Not pot smokers or someone that downloaded music illegally or something. There should be a jail where only the scum of the earth are sent, and their life inside there should be made a living hell.

 

[yeah_nah_yeah]

I agree that if one of my family was killed in a shooting like this, I would be angry and want retribution, but as one poster said earlier, as a society we cannot live from one retribution to another.

America is a different place though!

Gun sales are up 41% since the shootings! More guns will solve the problem

Gun Sales Soar

 

[RU_]

Please avail us of the vast experience you have of being in gaol and your first-hand knowledge of the conditions therein. You seem to be touting yourself as an expert. An opinion held about something of which you know nothing is worthless.

Is worthless to you. I couldn't care what you get out of my opinion. It is MY opinion. You have your own opinion, I might not agree with it, but that shouldn't matter?