Entertainment & Music Reverse Scalping

[Leather Poisoning]

Not even sure if reverse scalping is the right name for this practice, but I'll tell you a quick little story about someone I know.

It goes back a month or so when the Radiohead tickets went on sale, and quickly sold out. Disappointed fans were everywhere, and somehow e-bay was full of people offering a lot of tickets, obviously hoping for a bidding war to increase the price for a nice little profit.

The guy I know finds scalping to be a horrible practice, so he went onto ebay and bid for the tickets. He bid, and kept bidding and pushing the prices up to obscene levels - then when he won the bid he refused to pay.

Sure - it violates the terms and conditions of e-bay, and I'm not too clear of what the law is in terms of scalping (I know it's frowned upon, but I'm not sure on whether or not it's illegal).

If it caught on as a widespread practice it would force e-bay's hand - they would either have to stop the scalpers, or stop the reverse scalpers somehow. I think I know which way they would go, but what are your thoughts on this?

 

[I bleed Blue]

Great idea by your mate. Im all for the reverse scalping!

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Your friend is doing the right thing.

 

[hayes]

Love the idea. This rubbish has been going on for too long.

 

[checkraiseulite]

People selling tickets into the secondary market serve a useful purpose.

Don't see why buying an asset and looking to sell it at a profit is looked down upon so much in this particular industry, whilst being recognised as a normality in others.

Your mate has way too much time on his hands.

I'd be far more concerned with artists effectively scalping their own tickets though as has become common practice in the US.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

People selling tickets into the secondary market serve a useful purpose.

...

I'd be far more concerned with artists effectively scalping their own tickets though as has become common practice in the US.

Please elaborate on both these points.

 

[Piss Poor]

sounds like his thought long and hard about this, good idea, this never even cross my mind until now, eBay would have no control over it, power to the consumer. Well done.

 

[Piss Poor]

People selling tickets into the secondary market serve a useful purpose.

Don't see why buying an asset and looking to sell it at a profit is looked down upon so much in this particular industry, whilst being recognised as a normality in others.

Your mate has way too much time on his hands.

I'd be far more concerned with artists effectively scalping their own tickets though as has become common practice in the US.

It's not a business to steal from the sport, event, what ever and at the same time it rips off the consumer. that's not a asset, like pirating is also not a asset either.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Please elaborate on both these points.

A:

Not all of us have the time or inclination to sit in front of a computer hitting f5 so we can benefit from poorly priced tickets.

Point B:

I suggest you read this.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=11481431

This is never publicized or written about, but this is a major way that acts scalp their own tickets. Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus could never have $200 lower level tix, imagine the PR. But of course they know their tickets are worth more than face value and recently promoters have begun aggressively going after that $$. The result is VIP packages (which usually just include the ticket and a tshirt or laminate) as well as AMEX/VISA/Citi presales. AMEX pays a ton of $$ for exclusive access to prime seats. Why would Swift put 4th row center floor in the fan club for some girl who paid for a $25 membership when she can effectively get double or triple that fee from AMEX so a rich exec's daughter can get that seat?

 

[checkraiseulite]

It's not a business to steal from the sport, event, what ever and at the same time it rips off the consumer. that's not a asset, like pirating is also not a asset either.

It's not stealing from the sport (scalpers don't get free tickets ldo so the net result to the sport is the same), and the analogy to piracy is an idiotic one.

It's not the scalpers fault that the promoters/venues/sporting bodies misprice their tickets.

 

[Piss Poor]

It's not stealing from the sport (scalpers don't get free tickets ldo so the net result to the sport is the same), and the analogy to piracy is an idiotic one.

It's not the scalpers fault that the promoters/venues/sporting bodies misprice their tickets.

If the AFL found out someone had tickets and were selling them to make a profit. To that sport your taking the dollars from them- none of this mispricing crap, Its stealing from that event- without their permission.

The Scalpers raise the price regardless of ticket prices- If the AFL raise the prices, so would the scalpers after all they are after the profit as you say.

If you cant see that's its wrong then your the idiotic one buddy.

Regardless your ripping everyone off while you make the profit.

 

[checkraiseulite]

If primary ticket sellers sold at the correct market price, these guys wouldn't exist.

Of course you're going to have arbitrage when the differential between face value and market value is so large.

From an ethical point of view: When there's a finals game at a 40,000 seat stadium, there might be 150,000 people ready and willing to pay face value. Only 40,000 will get in. The more scalpers/ticket brokers who buy up seats, the more people will actually have a chance of going to the game by buying them on the open market. Who should have the most right to see a sold out game? The ones who were lucky enough to be at a computer at 10am with a fast internet connection? or the ones who value the ticket the highest thus are willing to pay the most?

Whilst you're reading this keep in mind that 110,000 out of the 150,000 people who want to go cannot go regardless.

 

[Piss Poor]

If primary ticket sellers sold at the correct market price, these guys wouldn't exist.

Of course you're going to have arbitrage when the differential between face value and market value is so large.

From an ethical point of view: When there's a finals game at a 40,000 seat stadium, there might be 150,000 people ready and willing to pay face value. Only 40,000 will get in. The more scalpers/ticket brokers who buy up seats, the more people will actually have a chance of going to the game by buying them on the open market. Who should have the most right to see a sold out game? The ones who were lucky enough to be at a computer at 10am with a fast internet connection? or the ones who value the ticket the highest thus are willing to pay the most?

Whilst you're reading this keep in mind that 110,000 out of the 150,000 people who want to go cannot go regardless.

In that instance you have to wonder how a scalper has tickets in the first place. if it good enough for a scalper to wait at a computer at 10 am then it should be fine for everyone else to as well. unless the scalper got them from another scalper.

 

[checkraiseulite]

The scalper is providing a service by having an inventory of tickets he is willing to sell at the market-price to people who were not able to secure tickets in the primary issue.

The scalper does the annoying/frustrating work involved with getting the tickets at the time they are released.

BTW I've got some gaga tickets I need to move if you're interested?

 

[fairdinkum]

Homer: Heh-heh-heh, I did it. Second in line, and all I had to do was miss eight days of work.

Some Guy: With the money you would have made working, you could have bought tickets from a scalper.

Homer: In theory, yes... *jerk*

Scalper: Give me... uh... 30,000 tickets.

 

[Silent Alarm]

The Radiohead fiasco seemed totally hyperbolic.

Okay, you have to consider the circumstances – one of the most successful, largest, generation defining bands of the last 30 years, twenty years of activity, plenty of pop songs for the pop fans, and a weirdly obsessive core group of fans, and an eight year absence. I accept the demand.

But the tickets weren't that hard to get access to.

I mean, I was on the website the minute the tickets went on sale. I snared two floor tickets for Friday in Melbourne. I didn't pull any strings, and I'm totally ordinary.

The majority of people who complain are those who bring it upon themselves. They blame their work commitments, travel time, internet connection, or some other externality. The system isn't that flawed.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Yes, these people blame scalpers for not being able to attend an event that is oversubscribed 10:1 at face value prices.

They then complain when the secondary market prices its extremely limited supply of tickets at ~4-5x face value.

If there were no scalpers everyone who got tickets would go to the concert and if you missed out you'd have NO chance of getting a ticket.

Shows like this, daft punk etc trade on hype more than anything too.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Thought this thread was going to be about Doug Bollinger

If primary ticket sellers sold at the correct market price, these guys wouldn't exist.

Of course you're going to have arbitrage when the differential between face value and market value is so large.

From an ethical point of view: When there's a finals game at a 40,000 seat stadium, there might be 150,000 people ready and willing to pay face value. Only 40,000 will get in. The more scalpers/ticket brokers who buy up seats, the more people will actually have a chance of going to the game by buying them on the open market. Who should have the most right to see a sold out game? The ones who were lucky enough to be at a computer at 10am with a fast internet connection? or the ones who value the ticket the highest thus are willing to pay the most?

Whilst you're reading this keep in mind that 110,000 out of the 150,000 people who want to go cannot go regardless.

So in other words, the rich are more deserving than the poor?

 

[MarcusP2]

For a luxury item like a music act? Sure why not. We don't force price equality in any other market.

 

[checkraiseulite]

Not necessarily.

You may place a higher value on attending a Richmond grand final (and therefore be willing to pay more for a ticket on the secondary market) than a Richmond supporter who earns three times as much as you.

It's not a perfect system as obviously those with the highest incomes are at an advantage, but really how is that different from any other market?

If you're at work at 10am during the 15 minute period in which tickets sell out, it's stiff shit? you should have taken a day off work and upgraded your internet connection?

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Is there a fairer system?

Should EVERY ticket be sold under an auction arrangement?

 

[checkraiseulite]

Is there a fairer system?

Should EVERY ticket be sold under an auction arrangement?

Dynamic pricing?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/...icing-the-future-of-ticket-pricing-in-sports/

Also ticketing companies are moving towards paperless tickets where your credit card acts as your ticket to combat scalping.

If for some reason you can't go to the event, you can resell your ticket to ticketmaster (and for a friendly 25% vig) they'll resell it (having complete control of the primary and secondary markets). So the ticketing company scalps its own tickets and pockets the vig too.

The only way scalping would be possible then would be if you physically went to the concert and swiped someone in, or you paid via a prepaid visa and shipped them the visa when you sold them the ticket.

This time the original seller gets screwed with the vig, and the ticket is sold at a higher price than what it was originally sold for depending on market conditions.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Not necessarily.

You may place a higher value on attending a Richmond grand final (and therefore be willing to pay more for a ticket on the secondary market) than a Richmond supporter who earns three times as much as you.

It's not a perfect system as obviously those with the highest incomes are at an advantage, but really how is that different from any other market?

If you're at work at 10am during the 15 minute period in which tickets sell out, it's stiff shit? you should have taken a day off work and upgraded your internet connection?

Willing and able aren't always the same thing, especially for a lot of musos. I think that's what the outrage is about, scalpers harming affordability.

 

[checkraiseulite]

What percentage of tickets do you think make it on to the secondary market?

Scalpers don't harm affordability as much as you'd think. The fact that scalpers can make money demonstrates that affordability is quite good in primary issues.

More people wanting to go to a show than there are tickets harms affordability by driving up the market value of the available tickets.

Just because you can pay face value for a ticket doesn't entitle to you one when there are 20,000 in a similar position for a 5,000 cover show.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Hate scalping in principal. Means people who are poorer yet just as passionate if not moreso can not attend