Richmond 2012

[SumTingWong]

he's an improving player. Looks more confident with the ball in congestion these days and is a good kick around the ground now. His set shots for goal were good last year, i think he missed a few long goals and snaps closer to the boundary though. I didn't see any sprayed kicks last season which is a good sign. I reckon his next 5 years will be that of an experienced and efficient player with good size and leadership. He has well and truly overtaken tuck imo and is ahead of grigg. I'm looking for more improvement in jacko and hopefully no more suspensions

???wtf!! Jackson kicked 7 goals 20 behind last year. A few too many sherberts on a lazy Sunday afternoon me thinks

 

[Madtiger2006]

I see him as a much more talented c.brown. Our hard nut (but not so hard he gets wiped out for games). i think we have to keep him due to experience and current lack of big hard bodies. still think he can improve but so many on here don't rate him. i think if can improve the goal kicking and long range field kicking he can become another good B grade player and who knows a larger midfield group might even help him out a bit.

thanks

Yeah. After 2010 I had him on the outer and not in the 22. But 2011 was a year where he improved in composure and skill around the ground. He also kicked some important goals. It's disappointing he doesn't get more support in here while Tuck does, but Tuck continues to make the same bad kicking and composure mistakes. Winning more of the ball isn't enough.

 

[Madtiger2006]

???wtf!! Jackson kicked 7 goals 20 behind last year. A few too many sherberts on a lazy Sunday afternoon me thinks

Yeah and alot of those misses were from outside 50 and closer to the boundary, mainly on the run under pressure. The set shots were pretty good if you watch the games

 

[santa claws]

I agree. I know this is an old example but Dunstall kicked 17 goals against us in '92 and then Turner kept him goalless in '95. In '92 Hawthorn's midfield cut us to pieces and in '95 our midfield was firing. So all of a sudden Scott Turner looks quite decent at full back. Midfield to me is the most important thing. West coast won a premiership because they had Judd/Cousins/Kerr...no other reason IMO! Obviously you want stars all over to spread the load, but it starts in the middle.
But I also believe that our defense costs us a lot of goals due to poor disposal and turnovers when clearing the ball...so this is an issue hopefully we are closer to addressing this year. We've got a long way to go IMO and too many unknowns atm with who will make the grade.

yet our midfield contained knights,campbell, free,lambert,maxfield,weightman for starters.

very naieve to just dismiss wonderful wce players like glass hunter braun wirrapanda banfield and waters they had a fine defence. geelong had have a fine defence so do collingwood. good defensive sides beat all out attacking sides.
despite judd cousins and kerr the eagles very nearly walked away with nothing in two gfs because of sydneys defence despite judd cousins kerrs best efforts. they dominated in the midfield in two gfs and were lucky to walk away with a win.

the nature of the game today says. no matter how good your midfield there will be times when it gets beaten that is when you need your defense to hold up. its what makes geelong such a potent team its what made brisbane so good.
geelong in 89 the most attacking team with the best midfield lost to hawthorn who were one of the better defensive sides in fact they were well rounded.
a fair constant for top 2 sides is they are defensively the better sides.they dont always have the best forwards or best midfields but they are nearly always the best two or three defenses.

matera kemp and mainwaring got all the kudos at wce in the 90s but it was hart brennan mcintosh mckenna jakovich worsfold who were the real force behind them.
michael leppitch johnson scott white pike ashcroft power and lappin at brisbane.
collingwoods success is built around sound defence first and foremost malthouse would be the best defensive coach of all time.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I see him as a much more talented c.brown. Our hard nut (but not so hard he gets wiped out for games). i think we have to keep him due to experience and current lack of big hard bodies. still think he can improve but so many on here don't rate him. i think if can improve the goal kicking and long range field kicking he can become another good B grade player and who knows a larger midfield group might even help him out a bit.

thanks

Its no accident that the two have clashed in the past...

I think his goal inaccuracy is possibly due to him doing the heavy bodied contact work around the ground...leaves nothing in his tank for his kicking...

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

yet our midfield contained knights,campbell, free,lambert,maxfield,weightman for starters.

very naieve to just dismiss wonderful wce players like glass hunter braun wirrapanda banfield and waters they had a fine defence. geelong had have a fine defence so do collingwood. good defensive sides beat all out attacking sides.
despite judd cousins and kerr the eagles very nearly walked away with nothing in two gfs because of sydneys defence despite judd cousins kerrs best efforts. they dominated in the midfield in two gfs and were lucky to walk away with a win.

the nature of the game today says. no matter how good your midfield there will be times when it gets beaten that is when you need your defense to hold up. its what makes geelong such a potent team its what made brisbane so good.
geelong in 89 the most attacking team with the best midfield lost to hawthorn who were one of the better defensive sides in fact they were well rounded.
a fair constant for top 2 sides is they are defensively the better sides.they dont always have the best forwards or best midfields but they are nearly always the best two or three defenses.

matera kemp and mainwaring got all the kudos at wce in the 90s but it was hart brennan mcintosh mckenna jakovich worsfold who were the real force behind them.
michael leppitch johnson scott white pike ashcroft power and lappin at brisbane.
collingwoods success is built around sound defence first and foremost malthouse would be the best defensive coach of all time.

Nah...Geelong lost that Grand Final through inaccurate kicking for goal...nothing else..

 

[santa claws]

Nah...Geelong lost that Grand Final through inaccurate kicking for goal...nothing else..

did they 21 18 to 21 12 says the winning side were the innacurate ones.

 

[santa claws]

Relax Santa...its still early days yet...the Pre-Season NAB CUp has'nt even finished and your already gunning for Houli...

So Houli didnt play a blinder....he was'nt on his own there...

Pre Season...Santa...Pre Season...its all about getting into form before the main AFL Season starts...

Wait and see what Houli's form is like when the real stuff begins...and then you may be right...who knows...stranger things have happened......

lol im very relaxed. just asked a very simple question of. if houli doesnt play a decent pre season game should he be picked. that is seeing how we are picking on merit nowadays and there is lots of competition for houlis spot.

 

[santa claws]

Now I've had chance to watch the games.
ATM Rd 1 for me: (assuming Conca and King suspended, and we are able to promote from the rookie list)

B: Grimes Rance ????
HB: Houli Post Batchelor
C: Newman Cotchin Deledio
HF: White Miller Martin
F: Vickery Reiwoldt A.Maric

Foll: I. Maric Jackson Foley

Int: Tuck Nahas ????
Sub: ????

Not sure yet who out of Dea/Ellis/Morris will take the back pocket spot.

The remaining two spots from Grigg/Edwards/Helbig/Webberley and whoever misses out from above.

I've included White as the defensive forward (with King out), with one mind on him reprising his role from last year in keeping Yarran quiet. Whose run from the back line may become more important if Gibbs is really to spend more time in the midfield.

thats a reality check bottom 4 here we come.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

lol im very relaxed. just asked a very simple question of. if houli doesnt play a decent pre season game should he be picked. that is seeing how we are picking on merit nowadays and there is lots of competition for houlis spot.

Nah...it was an eleven line post..a monologue more like it...deriding Houli's first couple of games for the season...

 

[delediofan3]

What if... What if... and i'm saying IF. What if Cotchin, Martin, Foley, Riewoldt, Deledio were injured...
I would've thought we'd be screwed.

 

[SumTingWong]

very naieve to just dismiss wonderful wce players like glass hunter braun wirrapanda banfield and waters they had a fine defence. geelong had have a fine defence so do collingwood. good defensive sides beat all out attacking sides.
despite judd cousins and kerr the eagles very nearly walked away with nothing in two gfs because of sydneys defence despite judd cousins kerrs best efforts. they dominated in the midfield in two gfs and were lucky to walk away with a win.

the nature of the game today says. no matter how good your midfield there will be times when it gets beaten that is when you need your defense to hold up. its what makes geelong such a potent team its what made brisbane so good.
geelong in 89 the most attacking team with the best midfield lost to hawthorn who were one of the better defensive sides in fact they were well rounded.
a fair constant for top 2 sides is they are defensively the better sides.they dont always have the best forwards or best midfields but they are nearly always the best two or three defenses.

matera kemp and mainwaring got all the kudos at wce in the 90s but it was hart brennan mcintosh mckenna jakovich worsfold who were the real force behind them.
michael leppitch johnson scott white pike ashcroft power and lappin at brisbane.
collingwoods success is built around sound defence first and foremost malthouse would be the best defensive coach of all time.

They also nearly walked WITH 2 premierships because of Judd/Kerr/Cousins.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Not dismissing the defence at all. But if I had to choose one over the other I would take great midfield over great defence every time. Geez, players like some of my all time favourites in Wirrapunda and Mcintosh (imo better than SOS) I loved watching, but Judd/Cousins/Kerr would have been the first 3 names read out on Thursday nite for me. A little (actually very) naiive on your behalf to discount Mainwaring and Kemp (especially).
Can't compare the role defence played in the '90's to now. These days the whole team defends where in the '90's the defence was almost on their own. Different era-different game.

 

[MR]

My round 1 team after Friday's effort. Assuming that Conca does his suspension through the NAB cup.

B: Grimes Rance Morris
HB: Newman Post Houli
C: Batchelor Cotchin Deledio
HF: Nahas Riewoldt Martin
F: A. Maric Vickery Derickx
R: I. Maric Jackson Foley
I/C: Tuck Conca Ellis
S: Webberley

EMG: Edwards Miller Connors

I absolutely loved Jackson's game against the Hawks. If he plays like that all year, he will be an extremely required player in the side. I've put Martin on the Half Forward line to accommodate Batchelor on the wing. I thought he was excellent in both games.

Tuck > Daylight > Grigg. Tuck is a clearance machine. With him and Cotchin in the midfield and Maric tapping the ball down their throats, we'll be one of the better ball clearers in the competition.

Webberley should hopefully overtake Edwards. They both have strengths and weaknesses but Webbs can actually kick the ball.

Jack at CHF because he will most likely be pushing up the ground, as evident in the NAB cup games.

Comments and criticism appreciated.

 

[tunksy]

My round 1 team after Friday's effort. Assuming that Conca does his suspension through the NAB cup.

B: Grimes Rance Morris
HB: Newman Post Houli
C: Batchelor Cotchin Deledio
HF: Nahas Riewoldt Martin
F: A. Maric Vickery Derickx
R: I. Maric Jackson Foley
I/C: Tuck Conca Ellis
S: Webberley

EMG: Edwards Miller Connors

I absolutely loved Jackson's game against the Hawks. If he plays like that all year, he will be an extremely required player in the side. I've put Martin on the Half Forward line to accommodate Batchelor on the wing. I thought he was excellent in both games.

Tuck > Daylight > Grigg. Tuck is a clearance machine. With him and Cotchin in the midfield and Maric tapping the ball down their throats, we'll be one of the better ball clearers in the competition.

Webberley should hopefully overtake Edwards. They both have strengths and weaknesses but Webbs can actually kick the ball.

Jack at CHF because he will most likely be pushing up the ground, as evident in the NAB cup games.

Comments and criticism appreciated.

god its getting hard to make a good 22, I want webberly in that side (conca will probably get weeks) so webberly should come straight in.

tuck was excellent should be a starter round 1. how long did he sign a contract for? 1 year?

if edwards cant get into that side, trade him to the crows for a 2nd rounder hehe

 

[MightyTiger]

What if... What if... and i'm saying IF. What if Cotchin, Martin, Foley, Riewoldt, Deledio were injured...
I would've thought we'd be screwed.

Funny thing that, lets go through some teams shall we.

Collingwood.

Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Geelong.

Selwood, Bartel and Kelly - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Carlton.

Judd, Murphy and Gibbs - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Hawthorn.

Mitchell, Hodge and Franklin - if these guys get injured who covers them?

St Kilda.

Fisher, Goddard, Dal Santon, Montagna and Hayes - if these guys get injured who covers them?

The list goes on and on, we aren't the only club who would struggle to cover quality players such as Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Martin etc, lets just prey that these kids have fairly interrupted careers.

 

[delediofan3]

Funny thing that, lets go through some teams shall we.

Collingwood.

Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Geelong.

Selwood, Bartel and Kelly - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Carlton.

Judd, Murphy and Gibbs - if these guys get injured who covers them?

Hawthorn.

Mitchell, Hodge and Franklin - if these guys get injured who covers them?

St Kilda.

Fisher, Goddard, Dal Santon, Montagna and Hayes - if these guys get injured who covers them?

The list goes on and on, we aren't the only club who would struggle to cover quality players such as Riewoldt, Deledio, Cotchin, Martin etc, lets just prey that these kids have fairly interrupted careers.

Yes, but those teams have enough depth to cover them.
Apart from maybe St Kilda and Geelong.

I am talking about us though, probably our next best would be Tuck but he's getting old, and then next would be Jackson and Conca.

 

[tunksy]

Yes, but those teams have enough depth to cover them.
Apart from maybe St Kilda and Geelong.

I am talking about us though, probably our next best would be Tuck but he's getting old, and then next would be Jackson and Conca.

foley, houli, girgg, ellis, batch to name a few...

foley, ellis, conca to be our classy depth...

we are starting to get a bit of depth most of it is unproven talent, but there is promise there.

 

[MightyTiger]

Yes, but those teams have enough depth to cover them.
Apart from maybe St Kilda and Geelong.

I am talking about us though, probably our next best would be Tuck but he's getting old, and then next would be Jackson and Conca.

How the heck do you cover superstars such as them?

Gimme some of what you're smoking please,.

 

[delediofan3]

How the heck do you cover superstars such as them?

Gimme some of what you're smoking please,.

... we obviously have to put someone in their place if they're injured...

 

[_RT_]

Yes, but those teams have enough depth to cover them.
Apart from maybe St Kilda and Geelong.

I am talking about us though, probably our next best would be Tuck but he's getting old, and then next would be Jackson and Conca.

Please name the players for each of those teams that would come in and provide cover. I'm tipping the cupboard would be pretty bare.

For example lets look at the Pies, take out Swan Pendlebury & Thomas and next in line is Sidebottom Beams & Ball. Now while those 3 are pretty handy types I'm tipping they are not going to be anywhere near as good as they are when Swan Pendlebury & Thomas are there to take the heat off of them.

 

[theflea]

most reports coming out of the club has most players braining preseason.

he has one decent yr behind him that is not enough to make him a lock in.

looking at the game again id say houli battled on friday. what happens if he does not play a decent preseason game is he a lock in still.
all i have ever said is one decent yr out of 5 doesnt make you a lock in.he is in one of the few positions at the club where there is real competition for a spot. no way should this bloke be a lock in based on just one season.
of course some players will be picked regardless some because they have actually earnt it over a decent period of time. some because they are important to structures and some likely for nothing more than experience.

we disagree. he is one dimensional until he proves he can play thru the midfield or do well up forward.
hes also one diminensional in the sense he has to be one of the biggest outriders in the game. one who panics just like mcmahon did under pressure and is as soft as they come defensively.

at this point in time i have no hesitation in saying there is three or four in front of him for a backline role.

perhaps we can just agree to disagree.

ha the bad santa has taken over the good santa. already changed your view from friday.thats ok mate ive said me peace you disagree lets move on.

 

[santa claws]

Please name the players for each of those teams that would come in and provide cover. I'm tipping the cupboard would be pretty bare.

For example lets look at the Pies, take out Swan Pendlebury & Thomas and next in line is Sidebottom Beams & Ball. Now while those 3 are pretty handy types I'm tipping they are not going to be anywhere near as good as they are when Swan Pendlebury & Thomas are there to take the heat off of them.

i think the difference is if geelong lose three good ones they still compete. they still win enough to get them where they want.
if we lose three bring on the hidings.

the crazy thing is our better mids played most games last yr they all played well (if b&f is anything to go by which most pundits are quite happy to point out to me). its not the better players who are the problem but the lack of good quality foot soldiers around them.
sheesh here we are still talking about white jacksson houli tuck edwards webberley miller mcguane etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc . ffs its not our better players who are the problem or our developing kids no its the same bloody glass half fulls who will always revert to type.

why cant we as supporters take the emotion out of it and judge players on the things that count.

an example is houli hes entering yr 6 hes had one bloody passable yr in a role my bloody granny could get a kick in.

yet this bloke is a player and a lock in sheesh what ever happened to players properly establishing themselves. why dont supporters ever learn.
how many have we had over the yrs who have had more than enough deficiencies in their games have one decent yr and be proclaimed. sheesh one can see what will happen a mile away.

ah i really do give up. it is a roundabout it remains a roundabout because it seems no one can get the bar to where it needs to get and noone understands just how long it will take.

houli was an upgrade he was cheap being cheap meant he came with defects. they are there for all to see. when i compare him to others in his role i have no hesitation in rating a lot of others more highly because they have more attributes.
just because hes better than what we have had does it mean we dont need to improve again.glass half full is glass half full. if houlis 60% full its time to look for the 7o% player.
i can have this debate about half our bloody list. and when i stack these players up against others what needs to happen hits you in the face.

how can we possibly win finals with houli king white jackson mcguane miller etc etc etc etc.
we cant the work to be done is enormous.

now in this rant are we going in the right direction. of course we are. but we arent gc or gws who have every concession under the sun. we have to value add as we go.
houli is replaced by say an ibbotson who in time is replaced by say a birchall or any number of sml/med defenders id take in front of him. king is replaced by a harper yes on potential who is replaced by say a garlett or any number of sml forwards id take in front of him.

just to finish im not saying houli or king and some others are not best 22 but we have to acknowledge that just perhaps we have to aim a bit higher if we are to get where we want.
end of rant.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

i think the difference is if geelong lose three good ones they still compete. they still win enough to get them where they want.
if we lose three bring on the hidings.

the crazy thing is our better mids played most games last yr they all played well (if b&f is anything to go by which most pundits are quite happy to point out to me). its not the better players who are the problem but the lack of good quality foot soldiers around them.
sheesh here we are still talking about white jacksson houli tuck edwards webberley miller mcguane etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc . ffs its not our better players who are the problem or our developing kids no its the same bloody glass half fulls who will always revert to type.

why cant we as supporters take the emotion out of it and judge players on the things that count.

an example is houli hes entering yr 6 hes had one bloody passable yr in a role my bloody granny could get a kick in.

yet this bloke is a player and a lock in sheesh what ever happened to players properly establishing themselves. why dont supporters ever learn.
how many have we had over the yrs who have had more than enough deficiencies in their games have one decent yr and be proclaimed. sheesh one can see what will happen a mile away.

ah i really do give up. it is a roundabout it remains a roundabout because it seems no one can get the bar to where it needs to get and noone understands just how long it will take.

houli was an upgrade he was cheap being cheap meant he came with defects. they are there for all to see. when i compare him to others in his role i have no hesitation in rating a lot of others more highly because they have more attributes.
just because hes better than what we have had does it mean we dont need to improve again.glass half full is glass half full. if houlis 60% full its time to look for the 7o% player.
i can have this debate about half our bloody list. and when i stack these players up against others what needs to happen hits you in the face.

how can we possibly win finals with houli king white jackson mcguane miller etc etc etc etc.
we cant the work to be done is enormous.

now in this rant are we going in the right direction. of course we are. but we arent gc or gws who have every concession under the sun. we have to value add as we go.
houli is replaced by say an ibbotson who in time is replaced by say a birchall or any number of sml/med defenders id take in front of him. king is replaced by a harper yes on potential who is replaced by say a garlett or any number of sml forwards id take in front of him.

just to finish im not saying houli or king and some others are not best 22 but we have to acknowledge that just perhaps we have to aim a bit higher if we are to get where we want.
end of rant.

Relax Santa...

Firstly...the AFL Season...the real Season hasnt started yet...everybody is finding their feet...players/coaches/umpires...

Secondly...its a Team sport...not an individual game...everybody brings something to the team...remember that...

And Thirdly...stop picking on Houli......

 

[MightyTiger]

i think the difference is if geelong lose three good ones they still compete. they still win enough to get them where they want.
if we lose three bring on the hidings.

the crazy thing is our better mids played most games last yr they all played well (if b&f is anything to go by which most pundits are quite happy to point out to me). its not the better players who are the problem but the lack of good quality foot soldiers around them.
sheesh here we are still talking about white jacksson houli tuck edwards webberley miller mcguane etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc . ffs its not our better players who are the problem or our developing kids no its the same bloody glass half fulls who will always revert to type.

why cant we as supporters take the emotion out of it and judge players on the things that count.

an example is houli hes entering yr 6 hes had one bloody passable yr in a role my bloody granny could get a kick in.

yet this bloke is a player and a lock in sheesh what ever happened to players properly establishing themselves. why dont supporters ever learn.
how many have we had over the yrs who have had more than enough deficiencies in their games have one decent yr and be proclaimed. sheesh one can see what will happen a mile away.

ah i really do give up. it is a roundabout it remains a roundabout because it seems no one can get the bar to where it needs to get and noone understands just how long it will take.

houli was an upgrade he was cheap being cheap meant he came with defects. they are there for all to see. when i compare him to others in his role i have no hesitation in rating a lot of others more highly because they have more attributes.
just because hes better than what we have had does it mean we dont need to improve again.glass half full is glass half full. if houlis 60% full its time to look for the 7o% player.
i can have this debate about half our bloody list. and when i stack these players up against others what needs to happen hits you in the face.

how can we possibly win finals with houli king white jackson mcguane miller etc etc etc etc.
we cant the work to be done is enormous.

now in this rant are we going in the right direction. of course we are. but we arent gc or gws who have every concession under the sun. we have to value add as we go.
houli is replaced by say an ibbotson who in time is replaced by say a birchall or any number of sml/med defenders id take in front of him. king is replaced by a harper yes on potential who is replaced by say a garlett or any number of sml forwards id take in front of him.

just to finish im not saying houli or king and some others are not best 22 but we have to acknowledge that just perhaps we have to aim a bit higher if we are to get where we want.
end of rant.

I'd love to reply to your post with a well thought out reply, but will refrain from doing so until you stop using Houli as your scape goat and giving him shit, every post has you pointing out how bad Houli is and I'm sick and tired of it.

2011 was the only year where his coach had enough faith in him to give him a good run at it, and you know what, he bloody repaid the coaches faith in spades.

And by you saying your granny could play in his position shows how ignorant and deluded you are.

 

[delediofan3]

Please name the players for each of those teams that would come in and provide cover. I'm tipping the cupboard would be pretty bare.

For example lets look at the Pies, take out Swan Pendlebury & Thomas and next in line is Sidebottom Beams & Ball. Now while those 3 are pretty handy types I'm tipping they are not going to be anywhere near as good as they are when Swan Pendlebury & Thomas are there to take the heat off of them.

That is what i'm talking about RT73.