AFL Autopsy RND 6: Loss to the Pies

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The problem is we brought in Hobbs like he was a 100 gamer or something. What we needed as a sub was someone with a mature head, someone who's been around the park long enough to know to use their energy to advantage and settle the bleeding. This was where we lost it.

And to bring him in as a sub in his first game in the AFL, on Anzac Day? Scott must have been smoking it up this morning.

Blind Freddy could see it was not the occasion or time and place for it.

I’d hate to see what you thought of Craig Macrae selecting key position swingman Will Kelly as his sub for his first AFL game in over 2 years.
 

raskolnikov

Cancelled
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To be fair, Adams, Howe, Cox, Cameron, Murphy, McStay hurt us a little too. It was a great game, but context is important if you are mentioning missing players. Brilliant atmosphere and I think the Bombers are on the way under Scott.
Lol @ Cox and McStay and I don't even know who Murphy is. We had our captain and best player and our best key forward out.
 

FlyingV

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Yep it was absolutely stark at the ground the running power gap. There were some signs in the last minutes of the third quarter also that left me feeling like the game was a 50/50.

I felt it was a mistake at the time to put Setterfield back and still think that. I’d rather try to conserve energy by winning it out of the middle and holding territory. But outside of that and being a little too slow to put Stringer back in the middle I thought the plan was good. All day we gave them the wide half back kick to push them wide, stayed back and prevented the overlap run through the middle. We kept our structure behind the ball and had great overlap run and switching to defend.

There really was a lot to like but the main weakness won’t be addressed without another pre-season sadly. The positive is that there are clear signs of a sustainable positive trend.
Was saying the exact same thing at 3qt time. You could see the lads tiring. We need to prioritise endurance based runners. It is killing us. Ross Lyon and McCrae have gone on record saying we need runners. Carlton addressed it big time with Hollands and Acres. You could see why we need to yesterday.
 

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MiguelM

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 22, 2014
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Most of the team stats were down compared to 2023 averages. Marks was the glaring one. So close to winning but just fell short. Was a credit to the players we got such a margin at 3/4 time.

Pies had to do everything right to win, we were just overwhelmed in the end (physically and mentally). Only a few sides could have stopped them.

Players were gutted, let this one burn, lets get them next time.

Scott said there will be some uncomfortable viewing in the review, can we learn?

One thing certain is we don't have to wait long for a massive test of our systems against the Cats. Hope they take us lightly and are not switched on!
 

Merrett2Daniher

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Apr 13, 2017
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How does Caldwell avoid being in the crosshairs.
Watched him closely yesterday and just let’s people run past him on transition.
Something I have noticed happening a lot with him.
3 kicks only yesterday.
 
How does Caldwell avoid being in the crosshairs.
Watched him closely yesterday and just let’s people run past him on transition.
Something I have noticed happening a lot with him.
3 kicks only yesterday.
Yeah I was disappointed with him yesterday, thought he'd step up and early on he had 7 touches and looked like he was making the most of his opportunities, really fizzled out after.
 
Lol @ Cox and McStay and I don't even know who Murphy is. We had our captain and best player and our best key forward out.
This is a bad comment, far out.

Doesn't help anyone to play these "well actually if x was in we would've won" games, all it does is show ignorance and it literally doesn't matter.
 

BrunoV

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May 5, 2009
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I thought everything held up really well for 3 quarters in what seemed to me to be a match of high pressure. I thought the match was played at a tempo and in a style that indicated relatively comprehensive control on our part. Collingwood's ball movement was patchy and they were getting a lot of scoring shots in low percentage areas. Mihocek being invisible, for example, was the result of there not being any space that he could exploit and run into (he's not target man and not used that way) that happens because the transition was bottled up.

Admittedly I was drinking but I didn't see the last quarter coming. It wasn't the classic Pies comeback, in the sense that they went to any particularly high level. We just completely ran out of gas.

Putting together a team that can run at that level will be the hard part here.

As much as the system held up when the physical capacity was there, we had a number of players who did not.

I can forgive Menzie and Davey for being exposed by the occasion. I doubt there is going to be a raft of unforced changes.
 
Feb 4, 2001
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I do not really think the margin flattered us at 3/4 time. Modern footy seems to produce a run of goals both ways and we did really out work them in the third quarter. We where right with them all game. They missed a few easy goals as did we at stages. Agree with the fact we there was plenty of decent stuff to take out of it.
Didn’t flatter us at all, we were finally giving it to a hated rival , one who has tortured us for awhile now. And we proceeded to s**t the bed. They got a run on and we went to water.
 

fairbump_playon

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Jun 27, 2014
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On Menzie.. doing so much right but just not finishing his work. The best small forwards are killers who can’t wait to get a look at the sticks. They take their chances.

Feel like that has been what Menzie has been able to execute at lower levels but he is a little overawed at present.

Needs more confidence and belief, plus struggling to deliver at the tempo and pressure.

There is a lot to like in his game but I can’t tell yet whether he can make the last jump. Would love to see him with that streak of arrogance that Greene and Cameron have.
 
Felt like we spent the whole day building a house of cards and then it all came tumbling down with McRae loading up his midfield while we emptied our pockets to cover for losing Laverde.
 
Apr 23, 2016
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On Menzie.. doing so much right but just not finishing his work. The best small forwards are killers who can’t wait to get a look at the sticks. They take their chances.

Feel like that has been what Menzie has been able to execute at lower levels but he is a little overawed at present.

Needs more confidence and belief, plus struggling to deliver at the tempo and pressure.

There is a lot to like in his game but I can’t tell yet whether he can make the last jump. Would love to see him with that streak of arrogance that Greene and Cameron have.

Was really happy for him when he snagged that goal, he's doing so many things right but just not getting reward for effort.

Looks like his goal radar is a little askew right now and probably needs a little break to go kick some snags at VFL level and get it recalibrated.
 

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Pweter

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Did we fumble so much in the 4th due only to being completely gassed both physically and mentally?

We handled the heat for 3 quarters but the Collingwood crowd sounded deafening on TV. Was there a case of us being overwhelmed by that intangible of the crowd in the 4th in conjunction with being spent which led to us struggling for clean possession?
 

magpienato

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Did we fumble so much in the 4th due only to being completely gassed both physically and mentally?

We handled the heat for 3 quarters but the Collingwood crowd sounded deafening on TV. Was there a case of us being overwhelmed by that intangible of the crowd in the 4th in conjunction with being spent which led to us struggling for clean possession?
I think it's almost a spiritual thing once that Collingwood chant starts going. It's like a death bell.

All credit though you guys had us on the ropes for the entire game. With a ton of injuries on both sides it was always gonna come down who had more in the tank, I just didn't believe we even had enough left in us.
 
Apr 23, 2016
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Did we fumble so much in the 4th due only to being completely gassed both physically and mentally?

We handled the heat for 3 quarters but the Collingwood crowd sounded deafening on TV. Was there a case of us being overwhelmed by that intangible of the crowd in the 4th in conjunction with being spent which led to us struggling for clean possession?

We had about a full seasons less experience per player out there, that kind of thing shows up in the last where you had some inexperienced guys pretty gassed from the game struggling to keep it going. Losing Laverde was a pretty big problem structurally as they tried sending experienced inside midfielder Setterfield back and bringing a 2nd year inside midfielder in Hobbs on in to the last quarter of a fast paced game to try to plug the hole. Merrett's kicking and ability to run out the full four quarters in the midfield also sorely missed, some of our delivery i50 was woeful, just kicking it straight to Darcy Moore as their only genuine tall defender for example.

No doubt our players simply weren't good enough to get the job done over four quarters, but there's also some reasonable explanations for part of it. Having Weideman and Draper both fluff important opportunities to steady the side and arrest some momentum didn't help either.
 
Our forward line is really missing Wright. Flip has been good, but him and Draper aren't a good replacement as the tall option down there. If Wright were there then he'd get the best defender, which releases some of the pressure from Weid, Jones and resting ruck. On the plus side, Wright not being there is allowing the coaches to get some insight on the limitations of the forwards.

Another thing we need to work on is delivery into the forward line. For a long time it's been poo. We have to learn to stop kicking to the opposition defenders. Not sure if that's also on the forwards for not leading correctly, but hopefully the coaches are working on that.
 
Sep 8, 2010
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Well, I was hype for 3 quarters - as for the 4th:
Forget Will Smith GIF
 
I think it's almost a spiritual thing once that Collingwood chant starts going. It's like a death bell.

All credit though you guys had us on the ropes for the entire game. With a ton of injuries on both sides it was always gonna come down who had more in the tank, I just didn't believe we even had enough left in us.

Complete rubbish, let me assure you, it wasn’t the chant.

There is a commonality between the Essendon v Collingwood AFL and VFL games that tells us far more. One side outplayed the other for 3 quarters then completely ran out of puff and got swallowed up by the other in identical fashion.

There was a sense of inevitability about the whole thing, which is perhaps why the chanting started to begin with.
 

BuffDog

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Nov 10, 2009
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I was impressed that we were able to be 28 points up at 3QT despite no player in our team really standing out and most of the leading possession winners Collingwood players. I think that's a real credit to the system based football that Scott is trying to implement.

You could also argue that put Merrett and 2MP into that system and we win more games than we lose.

Now obviously the last quarter was abysmal and its disappointing but hard to be overly mad about it.

I think it illuminated a few key areas that we need to improve to match it with the best teams over four quarters:

- Firstly, I'm not sure Menzie is the answer to our small forward woes right now and that's ok, he is a mid-season draftee after all and we need to be realistic in his potential. Lachie Schultz from Freo is a FA this year and we should be looking to bring him across, or failing that, hope that Nick Watson is around at our first pick.

- Heppell is clearly coming to the end and unfortunately made some critical errors at times yesterday. We probably need to look into a replacement half back with strong aerobic capacity via trade/FA

- Caldwell was also disappointing. Does he have the drive to improve his game? Where does he best fit into the team? Not sure about either of those questions at this stage.

- I thought from the Melbourne game that our fitness had improved, but clearly still a way to go to keep up with the best.

As for the positives I was really impressed with Weid's game. If he can perform to a similar level then he and 2MP can be an effective combination when they finally get to play together. Ridley and Redman were also reliable as usual and Langers is having a career best season so far.
 

P Money

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Jul 21, 2022
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I'm no psychologist but I really do think our team/club/organisation has some form of PTSD/losing mentality from such a long long period of mediocrity and getting consistently smashed on almost every big occasion (finals, Anzac Day, Dreamtime, milestone games etc). Contrast that with Collingwood who always appear full of belief no matter the circumstances and more often than not come out on top.

I know it sounds odd given the breadth of list turnover over the past 20 or so years but I really do think there's something to it. It's become ingrained and cultural and IMO is going to be the hardest and yet most critical thing to change if we are ever gong to see any kind of success. I mean we all saw it coming, nearly 30 points up with a quarter to go and as fans we all knew we'd still probably lose - I think the players probably had the same doubts in their head.

Time to sink some serious $$$ into a raft of highly credentialed sports psychologists and organisational psychologists (gotta stress NOT some psuedoscience trash AKA Collective Minds) to change this losing culture and mentality.
 

yodellinhank

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Oct 22, 2008
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All day we gave them the wide half back kick to push them wide, stayed back and prevented the overlap run through the middle. We kept our structure behind the ball and had great overlap run and switching to defend.
Including the dying stages when we needed to get the ball back and the magpies started time wasting. Man we are a dumb ******* side.
 
Feb 14, 2023
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Parish was a curious one this game for me.

First half he was poor Avoided contact and got the ball less than usual and when he did didn’t use it well.

As the game tightened up he was playing with more physically and was pretty good.
At half time I was really worried because their midfield was right on top and it had that feeling that the dam was about to burst. But it burst our way somehow in the 3Q. Then it seems reality set in again in 4Q and they ran over the top of us. A lot to like about things we havent been good at for a long time such as structure, defence working together, holding the opposition up but need more games into these kids and some more depth. Really missed Zac today too.

Going to be fascinating how we go over the next 5 weeks and whether we can keep up performances of the last 2 weeks (and even the Saints game if you exclude the start). Real test of character and now without Laverde. I'd actually be happy with 5-5 but also hoping the effort and game plan keeps up.
stringer was playing on ball in the 3rd that’s what did it.
I'm no psychologist but I really do think our team/club/organisation has some form of PTSD/losing mentality from such a long long period of mediocrity and getting consistently smashed on almost every big occasion (finals, Anzac Day, Dreamtime, milestone games etc). Contrast that with Collingwood who always appear full of belief no matter the circumstances and more often than not come out on top.

I know it sounds odd given the breadth of list turnover over the past 20 or so years but I really do think there's something to it. It's become ingrained and cultural and IMO is going to be the hardest and yet most critical thing to change if we are ever gong to see any kind of success. I mean we all saw it coming, nearly 30 points up with a quarter to go and as fans we all knew we'd still probably lose - I think the players probably had the same doubts in their head.

Time to sink some serious $$$ into a raft of highly credentialed sports psychologists and organisational psychologists (gotta stress NOT some psuedoscience trash AKA Collective Minds) to change this losing culture and mentality.

I wouldn’t overthink it. Team composure comes with experience, and the trust in your teammates that it brings. This teams lacking in that space.

The other thing that hurt was a lack of utility players who could cover multiple positions on the ground.

It felt like everyone got tried at HB and it didn’t go well. Zach would have been the guy who went there and filled that spot, so that once again points to a lack of depth
 

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