List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[M_rash]

David Mundy is too slow and no longer best 22 - M_rash logic.

We rate our list more highly than a team that has been steeped in failure for almost 2 decades, why does that surprise you? It's not the first time they've amassed quality young talent, whether they can properly develop them and become a winning team remains to be seen.

I stand by the Mundy comments. Liability on transition as a midfielder and we now have actual forwards.

Agree that it remains to be seen whether Carlton (or any team, including ours) can build into a winning team. Some people seem very certain that’s not even a possibility for Carlton, yet it’s pretty much a given for Freo - how they can crystal ball that, I’m not sure.

Not making this a Dockers vs Carlton debate, but at least Carlton have started to attract quality footy staff to the club (Hawks S&C boss) - suppose being Melbourne based has its perks for those sorts of things too! It takes more than just a playing list to make finals, and this is where I think RTB is our ace up our sleeve.

 

[Superkoops]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-28/lyon-flags-simpler-times-at-back-to-the-future-freo

Back to the future!

GREAT SCOTT FYFEY

 

[mightymouse75]

Bossy rossy is back

 

[smokingjacket]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-28/lyon-flags-simpler-times-at-back-to-the-future-freo

Back to the future!

FFS the team Ross inherited in 2012 were physically, technically and mentally mature. All they needed were tactical adjustments to the game day squad to create a coherent gameplan that could win finals.

This current team NEEDS COACHING. Our skill level is appalling and we still struggle to move the ball from D50 against most teams.

Why would any coach boast about coaching his young squad less?

 

[BlueE]

FFS the team Ross inherited in 2012 were physically, technically and mentally mature. All they needed were tactical adjustments to the game day squad to create a coherent gameplan that could win finals.

This current team NEEDS COACHING. Our skill level is appalling and we still struggle to move the ball from D50 against most teams.

Why would any coach boast about coaching his young squad less?

Totally agree but it doesn't take much to incorporate skill drills into training and from reports they seem to be doing this in pre season. Champion Data have released their 2019 analysis (In HS, but behind a paywall. Being discussed on here at https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/champion-data-ranks-every-afl-club’s-list-for-2019-season.1209605/#post-58972443) and apparently Ross will be coaching the youngest list in the AFL next year.

 

[Yeti]

Totally agree but it doesn't take much to incorporate skill drills into training and from reports they seem to be doing this in pre season. Champion Data have released their 2019 analysis (In HS, but behind a paywall. Being discussed on here at https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/champion-data-ranks-every-afl-club’s-list-for-2019-season.1209605/#post-58972443) and apparently Ross will be coaching the youngest list in the AFL next year.

No.

He will be coaching the youngest list HE has ever coached.

 

[Clems Knee]

Totally agree but it doesn't take much to incorporate skill drills into training and from reports they seem to be doing this in pre season. Champion Data have released their 2019 analysis (In HS, but behind a paywall. Being discussed on here at https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/champion-data-ranks-every-afl-club’s-list-for-2019-season.1209605/#post-58972443) and apparently Ross will be coaching the youngest list in the AFL next year.

Apparently Freo have the second worst list, and are in the bottom three for defence, midfield and forwards.
And West Coast are ranked 11th. Losing Lycett and Le Cras must have pushed them out of contention for the finals.

 

[Danny82]

FFS the team Ross inherited in 2012 were physically, technically and mentally mature. All they needed were tactical adjustments to the game day squad to create a coherent gameplan that could win finals.

This current team NEEDS COACHING. Our skill level is appalling and we still struggle to move the ball from D50 against most teams.

Why would any coach boast about coaching his young squad less?

We shouldn’t be drafting players that can’t kick.

I think what Ross is saying is we’re wasting time and resources on minor skill improvements to the detriment of fitness and game plan. Guys like Brennan cox and Mccarthy should be having heaps of goal kicking practice but would like them to work on this in their own time

 

[theGav56]

We shouldn’t be drafting players that can’t kick.

I think what Ross is saying is we’re wasting time and resources on minor skill improvements to the detriment of fitness and game plan. Guys like Brennan cox and Mccarthy should be having heaps of goal kicking practice but would like them to work on this in their own time

We have resources available to the players for this don't we? Assistants. Sports Scientists. Orange traffic cones.

 

[BlueE]

No.

He will be coaching the youngest list HE has ever coached.

Sorry my bad. Someone is drilling down on RTB then? You'd have to do a bit of research to find that out.

 

[Rion]

We shouldn’t be drafting players that can’t kick.

I think what Ross is saying is we’re wasting time and resources on minor skill improvements to the detriment of fitness and game plan. Guys like Brennan cox and Mccarthy should be having heaps of goal kicking practice but would like them to work on this in their own time

Focusing on skill improvements worked pretty well for WC and Hawthorn. Even Collingwood's improvement last year was driven by a major increase in skills. It's one of the main things I worry about Ross.

You can do whatever you like with fitness levels/game-plan but if the defenders can't kick it out of D50, the mids can't hit the forwards and the forwards can't send it through the middle you're entirely wasting your time in the current game.

 

[BlueE]

We shouldn’t be drafting players that can’t kick.

I think what Ross is saying is we’re wasting time and resources on minor skill improvements to the detriment of fitness and game plan. Guys like Brennan cox and Mccarthy should be having heaps of goal kicking practice but would like them to work on this in their own time

We have resources available to the players for this don't we? Assistants. Sports Scientists. Orange traffic cones.

Not sure what RTB as saying, but what I'm talking about is skills from warm ups on, developed with fitness and then practiced in pressure situations. Orange cones are Ok if you play against cones. Hello Carlton.

All high level sports (possible exception of certain cricket practices) do this. There are very good cross overs from basketball that can apply, especially for perceived pressure goal shooting drills that involves all or large numbers of the team. No more misses of set shots (and improved on the run, if doing those drills) by Fyfe and co.

Mentioning Assistants, how many of them are in the Level 4 program or are in Sports Ready Next Coach? Think it was only Lachie. So how do our coaches and assistants improve their knowledge and skill training plans?

 

[theGav56]

Mentioning Assistants, how many of them are in the Level 4 program or are in Sports Ready Next Coach? Think it was only Lachie. So how do our coaches and assistants improve their knowledge and skill training plans?

Sorry, I can't help you with that information.

Our draftees from this year Sturt, Valente, Bewley, Schultz and Watson all have skills listed as strengths in their profiles. That is no accident, it is clearly a strategic move by the club. And I think you can track that back over recent drafts.

Guerra was almost specifically brought in to provide some kicking expertise to our players, and Hale and Hayden likewise. I also think the strategy of retaining players like Ballantyne and Sandilands is at least in part to provide senior players in mentoring roles in areas that need development (which was specifically commented on by Cox).

The idea that skills are not valued is rubbish.

As with every area of a club's operation, there should be a relentless scrutiny and momentum towards improvement. With individual skills, the individual players need to step up. As with conditioning, the club can provide support, advice and programs, but if a player comes back a little chubby after the off-season and has not worked on improving themselves, then it is the player that needs to be scrutinised. Same largely goes for skills.

If there is an opportunity to improve the support staff, the club should always do that. Peter Bell needs to be all over this, and I have full confidence that he is, or will be.

 

[tonygeeks]

Sorry, I can't help you with that information.

Our draftees from this year Sturt, Valente, Bewley, Schultz and Watson all have skills listed as strengths in their profiles. That is no accident, it is clearly a strategic move by the club. And I think you can track that back over recent drafts.

Guerra was almost specifically brought in to provide some kicking expertise to our players, and Hale and Hayden likewise. I also think the strategy of retaining players like Ballantyne and Sandilands is at least in part to provide senior players in mentoring roles in areas that need development (which was specifically commented on by Cox).

The idea that skills are not valued is rubbish.

As with every area of a club's operation, there should be a relentless scrutiny and momentum towards improvement. With individual skills, the individual players need to step up. As with conditioning, the club can provide support, advice and programs, but if a player comes back a little chubby after the off-season and has not worked on improving themselves, then it is the player that needs to be scrutinised. Same largely goes for skills.

If there is an opportunity to improve the support staff, the club should always do that. Peter Bell needs to be all over this, and I have full confidence that he is, or will be.

So you think Duffield was lying when he said after years of watching both us and the Eagles train that there is a clear difference in philosophy with us being tatctics focused and the Eagles concentration on skills


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bender571]

Totally agree but it doesn't take much to incorporate skill drills into training and from reports they seem to be doing this in pre season. Champion Data have released their 2019 analysis (In HS, but behind a paywall. Being discussed on here at https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/champion-data-ranks-every-afl-club’s-list-for-2019-season.1209605/#post-58972443) and apparently Ross will be coaching the youngest list in the AFL next year.

Fourth youngest

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-club-lists-compared

 

[theGav56]

So you think Duffield was lying when he said after years of watching both us and the Eagles train that there is a clear difference in philosophy with us being tatctics focused and the Eagles concentration on skills


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Just checked what I wrote and I didn't notice where I called Duffield a liar. Usually if you want to know what I think, check what I write. I'm not even sure what I wrote contradicts what you say Duffield said (although you could be misrepresenting him as well).

Our two teams are at totally different stages of development, and have also been structurally vastly different. For example, we have had virtually no forward line, and one of the youngest defences. I don't expect them to train the same. What I do agree with that has been said, is that primary skills come with the player when they are drafted, and that after that, improvement is marginal (doesn't mean not worthwhile).

I also do like the emphasis being put to the individual player to address deficiencies and improve. A player like Brewley has clearly done that, and while I am sure he has had help, I suspect it has largely been driven by personal ambition and drive.

 

[Admiral Byng]

No.

He will be coaching the youngest list HE has ever coached.

So our list is even younger this year than last?

 

[Mudd]

I'm not too thrilled with Ross's recent comments about moving back to basics.

I guess I wanted him to say that we've done a 180 and moved to a fast, skill based game plan, rather than just trying to work harder so that we can push our forwards further up the ground.

This approach will either work and will translate to success or it will be a repeat of the last few years and Ross will be gone, either way I'll be happy!

 

[Bicco]

I'm not too thrilled with Ross's recent comments about moving back to basics.

I guess I wanted him to say that we've done a 180 and moved to a fast, skill based game plan, rather than just trying to work harder so that we can push our forwards further up the ground.

This approach will either work and will translate to success or it will be a repeat of the last few years and Ross will be gone, either way I'll be happy!

I took his comments to mean that we're going back to basic messaging/ not over complicating what the players are being told. Not so much going back to a basic game plan. I could be wrong though.

 

[malpaso]

Lot of people in here misunderstanding what Ross said and meant. In a nutshell, he has stated that our training has become too complicated, he has stripped it back. That doesn't mean he all of a sudden is going to make Ryan Crowley's or Nick Suban's out of everyone.

 

[Wigarus]

Boy there's Lots of people in here not getting what Ross meant and said. In a crabshell, he is going to make Ryan Crowley's or Nick Suban's out of everyone. That doesn't mean all of a sudden that our training has become too complicated and he has stripped it back.

 

[Taylor]

We can't turn it over by foot if we never kick it.

 

[tonygeeks]

Just checked what I wrote and I didn't notice where I called Duffield a liar. Usually if you want to know what I think, check what I write. I'm not even sure what I wrote contradicts what you say Duffield said (although you could be misrepresenting him as well).

Our two teams are at totally different stages of development, and have also been structurally vastly different. For example, we have had virtually no forward line, and one of the youngest defences. I don't expect them to train the same. What I do agree with that has been said, is that primary skills come with the player when they are drafted, and that after that, improvement is marginal (doesn't mean not worthwhile).

I also do like the emphasis being put to the individual player to address deficiencies and improve. A player like Brewley has clearly done that, and while I am sure he has had help, I suspect it has largely been driven by personal ambition and drive.

" The idea that skills are not valued is rubbish "

Ring any bells

Sounds a bit at odds to Duffields view to me

He wrote a whole article about it and spent 20 mins of his podcast talking about it. I don't pay a hell of a lot of attention to the media but he's usually pretty on the money when he criticises Freo or the Eagles because he's not a click junkie journo for the most part


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Paracleet]

Duffield is a good writer (style and ability to communicate). He is very well connected, knows whats happening and has an excellent understanding of footy politics and footy people. As an analyst of the game at a technical level he is poor, and just imagines he is otherwise because he possess those other abilities as above.
West coast are not a particularly skilled side and we are not particularly unskilled. what they are is experienced, well drilled and lucky. I would argue we have never had a more skilled list and the latest draft and trade period only reinforced that.
Being skilled and being able to express it a game is an entirely different thing. When you are under pressure because the team is inexperienced, or lacking in harmony or poorly coached (not saying any of those are definitely true for us, other than the first one), or you just lack ticker, then that pressure is going to cause skill errors. Equally, averagely skilled teams are going to seem more so when they are playing well, harmoniously and winning.
Any analysis Duffield is cooking up that breaks down into 'West Coast are coaching for skills and are skillfull and we are dong the opposite' is beyond skin deep and into idiotic territory for mine.

 

[Taylor]

Footy would be a really easy game if the opposition let you do whatever you liked.