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Analysis Ross Lyon

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Belnakor said:
praying we get them at some point during the finals. Easy win.
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I'd be a bit anxious about playing them to be honest. Their speed and run could get Freo if our structures were less than 100%.
 
Just a stray thought. Ross has always said the the real season starts in the finals. Does anyone think he has a surprise or two up his sleeve for the "real season".
 
manpurple said:
Just a stray thought. Ross has always said the the real season starts in the finals. Does anyone think he has a surprise or two up his sleeve for the "real season".
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I am certain that he does. He has already revealed that we have some different strategies to call on this season. These include a range of mids that can impact forward, use of Pearce as either a forward or defender, the surge, the successful use of an undersize defensive core. In addition we have the list about to have some extra option with Dawson and Johnson now becoming available.
 
manpurple said:
Just a stray thought. Ross has always said the the real season starts in the finals. Does anyone think he has a surprise or two up his sleeve for the "real season".
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Given he's a seasoned finals campaigner, and he's never pulled any surprises, I'd have to say no.
 

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Spoken4 said:
An inform D Pearce and S Hill are devastatingly effective in the link between defense and offense.
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Earlier this year, about a minute to go against the Doggies, a goal in it. Contested ball on our back flank, numbers roughly equal. Fyfe, the genius he is, wins the ball and pivots. Hill comes running past on the inside, Fyfe feigns. Good call cos Hill has two right on him. A moment later Danyle swings past on the outside, Fyfe gives it to him. Danyle runs his allotted, kicks long to Pav and Ballas. We goal, game over.
Small example, but it tells a story.
Danyle frustrates us with his clangers, but he is also an elite runner and surprisingly evasive. That run compliments Hill and creates space and options. Compare him to what a few other teams have for outside pace, the likes of Atley, Colyer or B. Hill and he matches up ok.
Edit: Sorry clangers. Damn I hate autocorrect.
 
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manpurple said:
Just a stray thought. Ross has always said the the real season starts in the finals. Does anyone think he has a surprise or two up his sleeve for the "real season".
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This goes against Ross philosophy which is structure and role playing.

The problem is that even if you had tricks when do you use it? There is about 1 month of finals, so any tricks can be countered by the opposition come grand final day.

What we need to do is rest players like D.Pearce and get rid of one of MDB/Suban to have any real chance.
 
_Wildcard_ said:
Something interesting.
Debut players played by Club in 2015, second column is those who changed club. Got this of Wikipedia (as of round 19), then sorted it by ladder position:

Fremantle 2 0
West Coast 5 0
Hawthorn 2 2
Western Bulldogs 6 3
Richmond 6 1
Sydney 3 0
North Melbourne 1 2
Adelaide 4 1

Geelong 4 3
GWS 2 2
Collingwood 5 4
Port Adelaide 2 1
St Kilda 5 1
Melbourne 6 4
Essendon 2 4
Gold Coast 7 3
Brisbane Lions 5 3
Carlton 6 4

So, we didn't blood many this year. We knew that.

Neither did Hawthorn. Two change club trades (in Frawley and O'Rourke) which are list top up trades. Their two debutants have only played a single game each. When you add it up, the success of Pearce for us has meant we're way ahead of Hawthorn in terms of blooding new players.

Eagles had 5, but their injury list is beginning to demand they do so, it's not so much a matter of choice.

Bulldogs are a young team and, we have to admit, a surprise packet. They're a bit of an abberation, there's one team like this nearly every year.

Richmond have 6, but they're also a very inconsistent team, as we're all aware, and that may be a fairly good indicator as to why you don't play too many draftees when you're in the hunt for a flag. Only two have played consistently though - Macintosh and Ellis.

Sydney we know about - no trades. Still low, on 3. Of those, 1 game, 3 games and Heeney on 6.

North, 1 debutant and two traded players.

Adelaide, 4 and 1. Of the debs, 6 Games for Lever, and 3 or less for the others.

The numbers go up significantly once you leave the top 8. Damned good reason for that - you need to, because your current list isn't cutting it. Sometimes, like with the Bulldogs, it works. Most of the time, as evidenced by the numbers for the bottom 8, it doesn't do much other than get games into the lads for next year.

Lyon seems to be simply a coach who is doing exactly as nearly everyone else does, when you're on target for a finals appearance. I'm thinking he's going to change things up next year, but this year he's just doing what every other coach in the AFL does - play to your strengths when you're on top.

Clarkson, by way of comparison, obviously doesn't play da yoof, even when he has a few GF's under his belt. Terrible coach, obviously.

Apologies for the lack of formatting.
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Very flawed regarding youth.

When you have a starting line up like the Hawks you don't need to breed youth, because the established players have done no wrong.

Whilst look at Freo's bottom players like MDB/Suban you soon realise if you got talented youth its a no brainer to take the risk and breed them. We were forced to use A.Pearce and look how he turned out, just imagine if Blakely/Weller were given a 10 game run, I reckon their output would equal Subans 12 disposals.
 
Banker said:
Very flawed regarding youth.

When you have a starting line up like the Hawks you don't need to breed youth, because the established players have done no wrong.

Whilst look at Freo's bottom players like MDB/Suban you soon realise if you got talented youth its a no brainer to take the risk and breed them. We were forced to use A.Pearce and look how he turned out, just imagine if Blakely/Weller were given a 10 game run, I reckon their output would equal Subans 12 disposals.
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Heaps of Hawks players have 10-15 possession games.
 
Steinfreo said:
Heaps of Hawks players have 10-15 possession games.
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Yeah. It's the standard sort of viewpoint among the negs.
If we have a few players who aren't performing up to standard, then they aren't good enough and we should be playing youth.
If hawthorn don't blood new players, it's because they're too good and don't need to. In spite of them having twice as many losses as we do, and against worse sides.

It's not necessarily that I don't agree (to some extent at least) but .... I mean if you're having a bit of a wank over a Hawthorn team photo while wearing your Dockers gear, go for it - to each their own. I don't really need it shoved in my face at every opportunity though.
 

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_Wildcard_ said:
Yeah. It's the standard sort of viewpoint among the negs.
If we have a few players who aren't performing up to standard, then they aren't good enough and we should be playing youth.
If hawthorn don't blood new players, it's because they're too good and don't need to. In spite of them having twice as many losses as we do, and against worse sides.

It's not necessarily that I don't agree (to some extent at least) but .... I mean if you're having a bit of a wank over a Hawthorn team photo while wearing your Dockers gear, go for it - to each their own. I don't really need it shoved in my face at every opportunity though.
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Ok lets forget they have 3 premierships and use this years performance to justify their bottom players are crap.

Are we forgetting even with their losses they sit 3rd on the table? Once you got 3 flags and doing alright you back the experienced players because you know they're good enough come finals. Our bottom players are not good enough against the best. I would risk trying Weller/Blakely anyday to get that new injection to get us our first flag.
 
kingswood71 said:
Steven Baker's selection in 2010??
May we see Crowley make a surprise GF comeback??
Tag Mitchell out of the game in the GF!! ;)!!
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lf playing Aleister in the GF is the biggest rabbit he's got in his hat, then, we should just expect more of the same. I'd play Crowley over deBoer any day though.
 
_Wildcard_ said:
If hawthorn don't blood new players, it's because they're too good and don't need to. In spite of them having twice as many losses as we do, and against worse sides.

It's not necessarily that I don't agree (to some extent at least) but .... I mean if you're having a bit of a wank over a Hawthorn team photo while wearing your Dockers gear, go for it - to each their own. I don't really need it shoved in my face at every opportunity though.
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Hawks and Cats seem to be the preferred destination for most free agents and that is a huge benefit to both those teams as they seem to pick up a ready made player or two most years. This gives them the chance to give young players a while longer to develop and also means they need to develop less new players compared to most other clubs.

Free agency is distorting the stated intention of the draft - the draft is intended to give every team a chance to win every week by giving weaker side access to earlier draft picks while free agency does the exact opposite the way I see it.

Weak clubs draft good young talent who after doing their time often want to move to the powerful Melbourne based clubs (or $ydney) to achieve a shot at a flag. The AFL landscape in Melbourne has done a U turn and is heading back to something similar to the pre draft days. The strong clubs stay in contention and the weaker clubs continue to leak players and support.

I just hope Freo can join the ranks of the destination clubs for free agents some time soon to compliment the players we draft and develop into quality AFL players. Thankfully the players at Freo seem very loyal to the club - a credit to club and players.
 

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Banker said:
Ok lets forget they have 3 premierships and use this years performance to justify their bottom players are crap.

Are we forgetting even with their losses they sit 3rd on the table? Once you got 3 flags and doing alright you back the experienced players because you know they're good enough come finals. Our bottom players are not good enough against the best. I would risk trying Weller/Blakely anyday to get that new injection to get us our first flag.
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Oh, come on.
If Fremantle had three flags under their belt and were still playing the same team as a couple of years ago with a free agent or two as a top up, you'd be frothing even more than you are now. You'd be livid.
You're not even arguing your own point very well.
 
theGav56 said:
Remarkable that posters think a first year player or two are going to make the difference between us winning and losing the premiership.
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Nobody is saying Blakely is going to win the Norm Smith for us. But he might add more to the team than De Boer, giving our match winners (Fyfe, Mundy, Hill, Walters, Pav) more freedom to attack rather than having to defend after a De Boer stuff up.

Every team has a bottom 6, you just don't want them to be liabilities in the big moments, some of our lesser players are and if we can switch them out for someone who isn't we give our stars a better chance of winning the game for us.
 
_Wildcard_ said:
Oh, come on.
If Fremantle had three flags under their belt and were still playing the same team as a couple of years ago with a free agent or two as a top up, you'd be frothing even more than you are now. You'd be livid.
You're not even arguing your own point very well.
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Looks like you have no response, after I disproved your argument.

The only reason you stick with experienced players, is if the youth are not good enough to force them out. Do tell me which Hawk youth players are better than the starting 22? Whereas in Freo case an argument can be made the youth will actually provide more benefit than hinder the team.
 
Unique Name said:
Nobody is saying Blakely is going to win the Norm Smith for us. But he might add more to the team than De Boer, giving our match winners (Fyfe, Mundy, Hill, Walters, Pav) more freedom to attack rather than having to defend after a De Boer stuff up.

Every team has a bottom 6, you just don't want them to be liabilities in the big moments, some of our lesser players are and if we can switch them out for someone who isn't we give our stars a better chance of winning the game for us.
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Trying to think of an example where a first year player has achieved that much in a GF that would give me the confidence that this would happen. Especially given that the "known" side of players like of de Boer has been part and parcel of a terrific H/A season which seems certain to see us finish top 2. Have you seen Blakely play anything resembling the role de Boer plays in the side, because my reading of it is that he is being groomed for quite a different role? When Weller played he indeed showed potential but clearly struggled for fitness despite being brought in at the end of a game when the heat is off.

I think that a first year inside midfielder like Blakely may find finals a little tough against hardened finals sides such as Hawthorn. I also note that it has been reported that he was given clear feedback from Lyon that he needs to work on his defensive side, which suggests a weakness in him as a player at this stage of his development which could be just as damaging to us as de Boer. Defense is also the core of de Boer's role.

By the way, I am not particularly meaning to defend de Boer, but if he was coming out of the side I would prefer to see someone of the ilk of C Pearce. The uncomfortable reality is that with Mora and Sylvia out of the equation, Duffield being below ordinary, Crowley doing penance and Ballantyne injured, our options for depth become the first year players, and they will most likely be bit players in any teams finals campaign.
 

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