Preview Round 1 v Port Adelaide @ AAMI Stadium

[CrashTestDummy]

oh ok, then lets fix the umpiring at training next week, oh yeah thats right we dont control that aspect!. We need to fix the things we are in control over like fitness, skill, tactics. If we sit back whining about umpiring decisions all night long like we and every other club has been doing for a 100 years we will never go anywhere. The decisions raised here are like they were the crime of the century - build a bridge and lets start controlling the 95% of the reasons why we lost, not who lost it for us.

CC

that's so on the money Carl.

Let's be loyal to each other. No more nonsense, no more photo-ops etc...

Let's make Jimmy Bartel cry and write our names in history in the same process.

If the players want a flag, they'll do it!

Otherwise, let's blame the Umps!

 

[Present Not Past]

I notice the AFL has gone into damage control regarding the umpiring during this game by posting footage on their site of the Dal Santo incident (50 m for incorrectly handing back the ball) as if to show that St Kilda simply brought it all upon themselves. Predictable and pathetic.

 

[Confuscius]

that's so on the money Carl.

Let's be loyal to each other. No more nonsense, no more photo-ops etc...

Let's make Jimmy Bartel cry and write our names in history in the same process.

If the players want a flag, they'll do it!

Otherwise, let's blame the Umps!

So much so you quoted it twice

But seriously things won't get better unless we move players on who cannot accurately use the ball. Jones, Gilbert, Peake, Ray, even Blake, when they get it they can't be trusted to move the ball forward to a target.

The era of the zone has made these players a liability, kicking it as long as possible doesn't work, you need accurate precise kicks to break the zone down. Either that or handballs to players prepared to run and carry before hitting a target. These players do not provide this.

The amount of times we gave Port momentum from a shocking kick was deplorable, there is no other way around it. Dal, BJ, Milne etc etc would get us back in the game then a shit kick from a defender would gift Port an easy goal.

Maybe it will come with a bit of confidence, win next week and they might lift as a result.

 

[Confuscius]

I notice the AFL has gone into damage control regarding the umpiring during this game by posting footage on their site of the Dal Santo incident (50 m for incorrectly handing back the ball) as if to show that St Kilda simply brought it all upon themselves. Predictable and pathetic.

Was that the footage of Dal giving it back to Trengove but he stopped and the ball fell short?

I'd like to see the footage of one of the other 50s where a St Kilda player blatantly and illegally did ?????? wrong resulting in a easy decision for the umps.

Or where Wingard pushed Goddard out of the contest and received a free for it.

Or where Milne stood strong in a marking contest, held his ground and kept his feet where his opponent could not which was deemed illegal cos clearly you can't be stronger than anyone as that's unfair!

So many other instances come to mind, but you know Geisch will back the umps 100% and say they've done a wonderful job.

I just hope our coach is a lot less forgiving on a few players this week. The umpires and some players need a few weeks of from AFL football.

 

[CrashTestDummy]

So much so you quoted it twice

Well maybe it needs to be quoted twice. And maybe these Saints players need to want to write their names in history? Unless other things get them through the night. Like being known as a great player who never played in a premiership team.

Are they hungry?......Enough?

 

[CrashTestDummy]

The era of the zone has made these players a liability, kicking it as long as possible doesn't work, you need accurate precise kicks to break the zone down.

No. You need to encourage players to use the natural elements. You can bet Carringbush would have used the natural elements and they have had many eras of success. Not just the "zone" era.

Watters needs to own up to his Rick Disneck error.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Scott Watters' press conference.

http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/435939

 

[Persevering Saint]

I think Watters wanted to win his first game as a coach, which is entirely understandable, so he risked little, and played safe old players.

Thing is, it's a bit like my wife and I putting our kid to sleep. For a long time, we'd rock her, sing to her, we'd do whatever, but she'd cry and cry. Eventually, we realised, whether we're doing all this stuff, or we leave her in her bed all alone, she's going to cry anyway. So, we'd leave her to cry it out, and while it took a few weeks, eventually, she learned that she needed to go to sleep by herself, and she's been a fine sleeper ever since.

Fact is, we can keep playing the "ol' reliables", because we don't want to lose like we will with lotsa kids. But the fact is, even with the "ol' reliables", we're going to lose anyway. We're going to be losing for a fair bit of the time over the next 5 or so months. So, if we're going to lose anyway, let's blood some kids, let's use their freshness to occasionally pull a blinder, let's get them playing next to wise old champions like Lenny, Fish, Dal, Roo, learning the game.

Every game we play with Polo, Ray, Peake, Jones, Blake is a game we've already lost at selection - not necessarily in terms of that actual game (although, as I've said, probably just as many games as if we played the kids anyway), but in terms of the long term development of the future.

Otherwise, when the ol' faithfuls are REALLY done - like retired, we are going to have 14 under-50-gamers, rather than 5. The fact that we're going to have that many is an indictment on Lyon. The fact that Watters hasn't done much to fix that, is the beginning of an indictment on him. He can be forgiven for his first senior match as coach. But not for much longer.

 

[Strahany]

Scott Watters' press conference.

http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/435939

Jeez, Blake looks absolutely livid.

 

[thomas_m18]

Felt sorry for him, just sitting there...

When was the last time we won for a bloke's 200th?

 

[Squizz]

Perc - to be fair, Ledger was named for the game (and something was obviously amiss). Didn't see much wrong with Polo's game.

We got touched up pretty bad in the ruck (although not as badly as the umpiring) and were pretty lousy at times with our field kicking (including a really bad effort from Milera - who is a skilled player - when Riewoldt had his man quite comfortably).

I do question playing Jones (who at one stage had the ball in space with a player streaming down the wing on his left - but he elected to keep running until he ran into two opponents) when Dempster is being played as a key defender.

This was quite a strange decision, but one that Watters seems keen on (he tried it in the pre-season too).

Ray was not a good choice as sub. He hasn't had a good pre-season and isn't the burst/impact player you'd expect in that role.

But when talking about the younger players, Siposs had been ordinary in the pre-season.

Are there others who've commanded a game? Maybe Simpkin to an extent, although I could see why they thought Blakey could be the right option in his 200th.

Wilkes was the other emergency (seems about right for mine). Not exactly a youngster.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

At least Sandy are playing well

No seriously, this is exactly why i throw up the questions when I see Ray and Polo selected ahead of players like Sipposs and Ledger.

Fact of the matter is, team defences are too good at closing space now, that if you can't dispose the ball well under pressure, your a liability.
Watters was spot on, we were so bad with the fundamentals of the game. Winning the contested footy, we got murdered by them and disposal efficiency. Just terrible. I mean it was only Port. I hate to think whats going to happen when we play a good side.
There's no quick fix for this.... I hope he starts blooding the youth soon.

 

[Strahany]

I think where we stand after round 5 will be really indicative of how our year will be. A lot of questions will be answered. How's the new game plan? Will Watters play the kids? Are we a chance at all this year?

It's too early to tell now, but all will be revealed shortly.

 

[Defacto]

I think Watters wanted to win his first game as a coach, which is entirely understandable, so he risked little, and played safe old players.

Thing is, it's a bit like my wife and I putting our kid to sleep. For a long time, we'd rock her, sing to her, we'd do whatever, but she'd cry and cry. Eventually, we realised, whether we're doing all this stuff, or we leave her in her bed all alone, she's going to cry anyway. So, we'd leave her to cry it out, and while it took a few weeks, eventually, she learned that she needed to go to sleep by herself, and she's been a fine sleeper ever since.

Fact is, we can keep playing the "ol' reliables", because we don't want to lose like we will with lotsa kids. But the fact is, even with the "ol' reliables", we're going to lose anyway. We're going to be losing for a fair bit of the time over the next 5 or so months. So, if we're going to lose anyway, let's blood some kids, let's use their freshness to occasionally pull a blinder, let's get them playing next to wise old champions like Lenny, Fish, Dal, Roo, learning the game.

Every game we play with Polo, Ray, Peake, Jones, Blake is a game we've already lost at selection - not necessarily in terms of that actual game (although, as I've said, probably just as many games as if we played the kids anyway), but in terms of the long term development of the future.

Otherwise, when the ol' faithfuls are REALLY done - like retired, we are going to have 14 under-50-gamers, rather than 5. The fact that we're going to have that many is an indictment on Lyon. The fact that Watters hasn't done much to fix that, is the beginning of an indictment on him. He can be forgiven for his first senior match as coach. But not for much longer.

great post!!!!

couldnt agree more.

these are the only up starts, when fit and if they keep their form or show they are improving:
FB BP FB Gwilt
HB Goddard Fisher HB
C WING Hayes Montagna
HF HF Reiwoldt HF
FB Milne FF Schneider
R Ruck Dal Santo Steven

I/C INT1 INT2 INT3 SUB

 

[StFly]

I have spent a year dropping Gilbert every game in my proposed team. That certainly isn't changing now.

I want to simply ask - do we REALLY see much difference in selection, attitude, game play, skill priority, anything, between Lyon and Watters? When Ledger is dropped for Polo (which is really what happened - c'mon, it's obvious), when Sippos can't come in, when Blake is playing instead of Simpkin after his sterling performance pre-season... Nothing has changed.

Was it '09 when i suggested Gilbert be dropped to the VFL to sort his kicking out? If so this little bug claims being 3 years ahead of the curve. Good to see the club has done away with Grammy (even if it's forced I'll bloody well claim it!) as he's a serial offender as well I could get me a talent scouting job for half backs who kick with a natural friggen arc instead of an attempt to kick themselves on the snozz.

Article in The Age today suggested radical and massive team list surgery. Depending on the next 2 months that might be a necessary gamble.

Reactionary. The core list is "adequate" without containing obvious fill ins for injuries to key personnel (outlined by Benchies KP remark), unfortunately for us "change" needed to occur last year and simply didn't as a gameplan was persisted with, core personnel were persisted with and so we're left with a large group that have teething issues in the side because they've never been given much of a chance.

If by the mid way point to the end of the season we are still running around with the bulk of the core group of the last 3 years still on the park, then it is time for a rather massive list cleanout; delisting/moving on the likes of the Gilbo's, Grams, Kosi's, Peake, Ray, Polo, Clarke, Blake, Armo, Geary and getting an almost complete refreshment of the back of centre, draft a key ruckman, FB, FF, CHB/F, sick Rooey at FF with Archer CHF or vice versa, retire him with Hayes & use Stanley in the pos or the drafted/developed KP prospect.

It's hard to gauge where we are at as a club since over the past 3 years ('09-'11) we've had a set core of 18 take the field with a rotational policy of 3-5 when it really needs to be about half that. First 3-4 rounds are teething issues, trying players, shifting positions, settling on where we want to "go", 5-7 is where we should be seeing good glimpses of what we're going to do this season, 7-11 is where the cue gets firmly put in the rack or you consolidate momentum to then barge home by the midway point if you're serious about finals.

Round 1 is always reactionary doomsday from people wishing to give voice to their "I was right, I made the hard call first!" or merely do as I did and play historics with "this was eventual, blind freddy knew they'd fail and their list was shit, I said as much at the turn of the century and '09-10 was a blip on the screen of a shit club!" /Dermie

 

[Saint4Ever]

Disgusting performance. How we can lose to Port is beyond me. Total lack of desire from the players today. Not good enough.

 

[jackster83]

Saints it's simple, the Afl beat us tonight
A sustained and disgraceful effort from the umpires
don't despair, we'll be back.

Seems the AFL are going all out to help the welfare clubs (Port, GWS and Gold Coast) this year.

Port played very well but you blokes were robbed.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Just a couple of observations from tonights game:
- We just can't seem to win a contested mark
- Defenders need to improve and speed up their decision making
- Players must commit a lot harder to the tackle, soft arm tackles aren't good enough
- Need to learn that if you go in over a players head and shoulders in a ground contest, they are gonna ping you
- Some players suprise me with their lack of proficiency at kicking, how did they get this far
- The umpiring decisions totally cruelled us but we gave away some stupid penalties which gifted soft goals
- Milera, Kozi, Fish, Steven, Polo had good games

I think we'll compete pretty well after getting that one out the way.

 

[Cuz2Plugger]

Was it '09 when i suggested Gilbert be dropped to the VFL to sort his kicking out? If so this little bug claims being 3 years ahead of the curve. Good to see the club has done away with Grammy (even if it's forced I'll bloody well claim it!) as he's a serial offender as well I could get me a talent scouting job for half backs who kick with a natural friggen arc instead of an attempt to kick themselves on the snozz.



Reactionary. The core list is "adequate" without containing obvious fill ins for injuries to key personnel (outlined by Benchies KP remark), unfortunately for us "change" needed to occur last year and simply didn't as a gameplan was persisted with, core personnel were persisted with and so we're left with a large group that have teething issues in the side because they've never been given much of a chance.

If by the mid way point to the end of the season we are still running around with the bulk of the core group of the last 3 years still on the park, then it is time for a rather massive list cleanout; delisting/moving on the likes of the Gilbo's, Grams, Kosi's, Peake, Ray, Polo, Clarke, Blake, Armo, Geary and getting an almost complete refreshment of the back of centre, draft a key ruckman, FB, FF, CHB/F, sick Rooey at FF with Archer CHF or vice versa, retire him with Hayes & use Stanley in the pos or the drafted/developed KP prospect.

It's hard to gauge where we are at as a club since over the past 3 years ('09-'11) we've had a set core of 18 take the field with a rotational policy of 3-5 when it really needs to be about half that. First 3-4 rounds are teething issues, trying players, shifting positions, settling on where we want to "go", 5-7 is where we should be seeing good glimpses of what we're going to do this season, 7-11 is where the cue gets firmly put in the rack or you consolidate momentum to then barge home by the midway point if you're serious about finals.

Round 1 is always reactionary doomsday from people wishing to give voice to their "I was right, I made the hard call first!" or merely do as I did and play historics with "this was eventual, blind freddy knew they'd fail and their list was shit, I said as much at the turn of the century and '09-10 was a blip on the screen of a shit club!" /Dermie

We have the oldest list. 'Sometimes playing it safe is the most dangerous thing you can do' I did say depending on this years trend, but you're right, Im not optimistic. And then you said exactly the same thing as I did "If by the mid way point.....' ??? Nothing more or less.

And I'll tell you what's been reactionary, our list management fr a decade.

 

[Cardio Carl]

Oh yes, calling him Stevens. That was infuriating.

I thought you PO to watch the A-League?

Backbone - ha!

WTF

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I couldn't agree more with the sentiments in this thread. with pelchin on the bridge n watters in the seat. how they selected half those hack kicks to play ahead of the youth is beyond me. Players like Polo n Ray were brought in ahead of youth because of there gardness n ability to win the contested footy. ppfftt even if they get the ball there skills are rubbish they just turn it over. Opposition pressure tactics are too good now. thank goodness the rebuild started last season. weve been up a long time. All i can say, is im gladweve got Pelchin behind watters now.

 

[UnfinishedBusiness]

As bad as the umpiring was (and it was terrible) we got absolutely smashed around the ball. Port just looked like they wanted it more and credit to them. I'm extremely concerned about our ruckmen/clearances.

Absolutely. McEvoy appeared completely unable to tap it to anyone in a RWB jumper, anytime he got a hand on it it went straight into the hands of a port player.

I agree that a few didn't go our way but I think it's unhelpful to complain about the umpiring costing us the match. Especially when there were plenty of things which we control which could have been done better

 

[Trojan Pies]

Surprised Ledger was replaced unless he was injured. I went to the Pies V St Kilda NAB Cup game and he and Geary were two of your best. Interestingly, Ledger was the sub in that game and only got near on a full game cos Sir Lenny went down.

These two plus Steven, Siposs and Cripps, are the next wave of youth, the future of your club and need max game time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just a couple of observations from tonights game:
- We just can't seem to win a contested mark
- Defenders need to improve and speed up their decision making
- Players must commit a lot harder to the tackle, soft arm tackles aren't good enough
- Need to learn that if you go in over a players head and shoulders in a ground contest, they are gonna ping you
- Some players suprise me with their lack of proficiency at kicking, how did they get this far
- The umpiring decisions totally cruelled us but we gave away some stupid penalties which gifted soft goals
- Milera, Kozi, Fish, Steven, Polo had good games

I think we'll compete pretty well after getting that one out the way.

Port took 16 contested marks by 11 players ( lead by Daniel Stewart with three ). StKilda took 11 by 8 players.
McEvoy and Riewoldt were our best.
Port won contested marks inside 50 though , while our players rely on getting space.
Watters is putting a lot onto winning contested ball.
Our leading stat getters were:
DalSanto 14
Riewoldt 10
Dempster 8
Steven 8

Port had 9 players who got 9 or more contested posessions.
Conspicuosly poor were Cripps (2), Kosi (3)

Blake was credited with 9 1%'s. Twice as many as anyone else on the ground except fish who had 5.

 

[Persevering Saint]

What you might not have been able to see on the TV, that was plain as day at the game, was this:

Port would get the ball from a pack in the backline, find a player with space, and start charging through the middle. Meanwhile, there would be at least one, often two, Port players in their forward fifty ALL ALONE, who had left their Saints opponent in the dust. The Port player with the ball would get into the centre of the ground, and dilly-dally with it (despite those two players in front of him, by themselves) just that TAD bit too much, and get tackled - holding the ball (miraculously, thanks, umps).

We dodged that bullet quite a few times. QUITE a few times.

ANY other team (God help us, Collingwood, or Geelong, or Hawthorn, or West Coast), that midfielder would have disposed of the ball to those forwards, and they would have strolled in and kicked a goal... and then done it again... and then again...

And then we sub one of our faster players, in Cripps? Seriously?