Preview Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle - Marvel Stadium - Saturday 18th May, 7.30pm AEST

[Saintbloke]

Sandringham simply isn't a development opportunity though. This has been quite clear for the best part of a decade. The state of the club does not allow for development unlike other reserves/affiliate sides.

Quite obvious when the list managers aren't satisfied with a single Zebra player to draft this year, so have jetted a VAFA player into the side.

There's a Sandy player, Will Vesely, who I reckon could turn into a decent AFL player- great goal sense and strong mark

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Exactly- people seem to think as a tall forward, that he is a key position player which he is not- he is a tall athletic HF flanker

What qualities do you require in a tall forward that Max doesn’t have?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sauce_head]

I suggested that he might struggle to make it as a tall forward in his draft year because of it. I wanted Izaak Rankin and he went before we had a pick anyway.

But he’s plucking marks at training I think. You can see it’s almost there.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

He won't do anything to improve us. Yes he is better than Ross but so what.

So you ascertain that Dow is better than the player he that is replacing but he won't improve us, because "so what"

 

[Yawkey way]

He had kicked 11goals in the previous 4 games. I think he might be our highest scoring VFL player this year.

VFL small forward roles are the hardest position to play and the first half the ball barely came deep inside our attacking 50.

Without Snags and Butler our forward line looks impotent. If you have one small forward left you might as well play them.

I’ve watched a bit of sandy and he has some impressive skills unfortunately finding the ball at this stage isn’t one on them. Low possession high impact along with pressure and run down tackles along with his pace and agility is good package. I’m greedy though so I’d still be a lot happier if he could start getting 15 plus.

Anyway his kicking skills won’t let him down over the long haul so that’s a bonus in itself, a guy who can nail a shot on goal.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Can't run our own VFL side without money to spend, can't develop players without our own VFL side (or a better allignment).

I don't think that flies.
Our development coach is the Sandringham coach.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Will Graham and Joel Jeffrey are the ones to pick off this time.

WG is another academy kid from last year. Not as high profile as the other three they got last year but is a fast tackle happy inside mid/ HBF. They get more academy kids in the next couple of years so they'll have a surplus. Already looks pretty good at VFL level.

Jeffrey in the VFL looks a gun. He's getting a bit lost in the seniors. He's probably not a need but think he'll end up another high level Sun who might struggle to fit own the side.

We should throw Weitering money at Luko too. He's a freak and apparently gettable next year.

Riley Garcia from the Dogs and throw him on ball too. His VFL numbers were incredible when he plays out of the middle. Plays HHF when he makes seniors and gets lost.

Your talking about a few blokes who get plenty of it in the VFL that most times doesn't equate to being a good AFL player , we have seen that with some of our own players over the years

 

[Premium]

So you ascertain that Dow is better than the player he that is replacing but he won't improve us, because "so what"

It's taken just about 10 rounds to realize Seb Ross is not what we need in the middle - at least the move has been made.
This allows a player to have a good crack , we may go backwards but at least we are now attempting something different - good move by Lyon - however I wouldn't cast Seb Ross aside because he would be a very good sub.
Membery is another good move imo , his stats have not been better than Owens and now a younger player can fill the void either Hammer or Sharman.

Season finished so give the kids games to let them know what standard they need to get up to.

 

[gringo2011]

Always wanted a Saints VFL side ahead of everything else we have invested in over the last ten years.

Our goal was to have a standalone side by 2016.

Saints to field standalone VFL team from 2016

St Kilda to field standalone VFL team from 2016 onwards

www.afl.com.au

The reason we aren't any good is that we don't surround the players with top line VFL talent. We can't even pay what we have so aren't about to rebrand what is pretty much our development side anyway.

The AFL should rebrand the VFL with a few stand alone sides that are true showcase sides for talent that wants to go make it from outside clubland. Then have AFL affiliates as stand alone. The worst of both worlds at the moment. It's shit for players outside AFL clubs trying to get in and badly paid compared to other secondary comps.

 

[gringo2011]

Your talking about a few blokes who get plenty of it in the VFL that most times doesn't equate to being a good AFL player , we have seen that with some of our own players over the years

These are guys that make our guys look shit. There are guys that are a level above. We haven't had one of those for years. I reckon our last VFL gun was Lonie. He'd go back and play on ball and look a class above everyone else, come in to seniors and get stuck in a pocket and struggle to have an impact.

 

[gringo2011]

There's a Sandy player, Will Vesely, who I reckon could turn into a decent AFL player- great goal sense and strong mark

Yeah, he looks a natural footballer.

 

[gringo2011]

I’ve watched a bit of sandy and he has some impressive skills unfortunately finding the ball at this stage isn’t one on them. Low possession high impact along with pressure and run down tackles along with his pace and agility is good package. I’m greedy though so I’d still be a lot happier if he could start getting 15 plus.

Anyway his kicking skills won’t let him down over the long haul so that’s a bonus in itself, a guy who can nail a shot on goal.

Any VFL small forward that can kick a score is doing well IMO. It's Death Valley usually.

 

[gringo2011]

But he’s plucking marks at training I think. You can see it’s almost there.

He can do all of the skills well but it's his tall forward craft that lacks a bit.

He'd actually be better standing at the crumbs of a more contested tall like Hammer.

He actually ran into towards defenders last week. It was one of the weirdest bit's of tall forward play I've witnessed. I think he thought he'd just outreach everyone else. It means that the mids are kicking to a contest and likely turn over.

 

[Fehring]

He had kicked 11goals in the previous 4 games. I think he might be our highest scoring VFL player this year.

VFL small forward roles are the hardest position to play and the first half the ball barely came deep inside our attacking 50.

Without Snags and Butler our forward line looks impotent. If you have one small forward left you might as well play them.

Agreed. We desperately need a small forward in the team. Not a small mid/HBF who we put in the forward line; an actual small forward.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Agreed. We desperately need a small forward in the team. Not a small mid/HBF who we put in the forward line; an actual small forward.

Break glass and thaw the tiprat?

 

[pebblesofsand]

He had kicked 11goals in the previous 4 games. I think he might be our highest scoring VFL player this year.

VFL small forward roles are the hardest position to play and the first half the ball barely came deep inside our attacking 50.

Without Snags and Butler our forward line looks impotent. If you have one small forward left you might as well play them.

I think the day he kicked 4 was a re-enactment of Ben Long kicking 7 in the VFL final.

If they reckon speed in the fwd half is the issue, then they should have brought in Collard and kept Garcia instead of bringing in Phillipou.

Surely King, Caminiti, Sharman and Owens provide enough tall(ish) options.

 

[sauce_head]

He can do all of the skills well but it's his tall forward craft that lacks a bit.

He'd actually be better standing at the crumbs of a more contested tall like Hammer.

He actually ran into towards defenders last week. It was one of the weirdest bit's of tall forward play I've witnessed. I think he thought he'd just outreach everyone else. It means that the mids are kicking to a contest and likely turn over.

Agree definitely with tall forward craft. That is leading to space.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Think Maxxy boy has been a victim of a few things so far, but can hopefully break through it giving some continuity.

- He isn't really a key forward in the same mould of Tom Lynch, but we've had to play him like that since he came in because we had no other options. Riewoldt had an old Stewy Loewe and then G-Train and Kosi as a cover. Max has been THE key forward since his first game.

- ACL Rehab and then the ankle injury in Sandy ruined his first season and then made the club wrap him in cotton wool - leaving him as a deep forward and not risking him with any run in the ruck or up the ground at all.

- TERRIBLE ball movement doesn't help because at times when he does lead, we can miss him by a mile or be so slow to make a decision that it doesn't matter.

No doubt he's out of form now, but it doesn't have to stay like that. I'd like us to leave one of Caminiti or Hayes as the deep get out target and just let Max off the leash a bit. Let him have the Jezza Cameron roaming style of play. Can you imagine him floating across packs on the wing and taking those marks down the line instead of trying to compete against 20 blokes in a school yeard style markers up every time.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Think Maxxy boy has been a victim of a few things so far, but can hopefully break through it giving some continuity.

- He isn't really a key forward in the same mould of Tom Lynch, but we've had to play him like that since he came in because we had no other options. Riewoldt had an old Stewy Loewe and then G-Train and Kosi as a cover. Max has been THE key forward since his first game.

- ACL Rehab and then the ankle injury in Sandy ruined his first season and then made the club wrap him in cotton wool - leaving him as a deep forward and not risking him with any run in the ruck or up the ground at all.

- TERRIBLE ball movement doesn't help because at times when he does lead, we can miss him by a mile or be so slow to make a decision that it doesn't matter.

No doubt he's out of form now, but it doesn't have to stay like that. I'd like us to leave one of Caminiti or Hayes as the deep get out target and just let Max off the leash a bit. Let him have the Jezza Cameron roaming style of play. Can you imagine him floating across packs on the wing and taking those marks down the line instead of trying to compete against 20 blokes in a school yeard style markers up every time.

Its a worry that bad ball movement can actually hinder his development.

Forwards need reward for effort to learn what to do, if they lead and its always going over their head they are more likely to preference staying still or ducking out the back etc..

We want King to learn good habits not bad ones.

 

[CaptainRisky]

These are guys that make our guys look s**t. There are guys that are a level above. We haven't had one of those for years. I reckon our last VFL gun was Lonie. He'd go back and play on ball and look a class above everyone else, come in to seniors and get stuck in a pocket and struggle to have an impact.

Must admit Jeffrey has played his best two games ever in the last two weeks , question can he keep it up and I'm not sure we need another 192cm forward

 

[SG34]

Max can pick up a ball in traffic nicely and throw it on his boot in all directions - intended and intended. Gotta add that to his box of tricks. And it isn’t a skill associated with big tall forwards I guess…or is it?

To add injury to insult..re as we lament our forward line and massage our miseries..look who pops up for a Gold Coast game in the firsts, kicks two goals and two goal assists- Ben Long

22

Ben Long

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

!!

 

[g_TRAIN]

Max can pick up a ball in traffic nicely and throw it on his boot in all directions - intended and intended. Gotta add that to his box of tricks. And it isn’t a skill associated with big tall forwards I guess…or is it?

To add injury to insult..re as we lament our forward line and massage our miseries..look who pops up for a Gold Coast game in the firsts, kicks two goals and two goal assists- Ben Long!!

Happy for Ben but in a team that kicks 26 goals as a forward you would be disappointed not to get at least 2 or 3.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Its a worry that bad ball movement can actually hinder his development.

Forwards need reward for effort to learn what to do, if they lead and its always going over their head they are more likely to preference staying still or ducking out the back etc..

We want King to learn good habits not bad ones.

Battle going forward the last few weeks has been funny to see, because he isn't use to terrible ball movement or missed passes, he just leads at the ball carrier like he's still playing his TAC cup days

 

[Yawkey way]

Any VFL small forward that can kick a score is doing well IMO. It's Death Valley usually.

Lonie could get huge numbers running in the mids and still found it even as a small forward and we delisted him.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Think Maxxy boy has been a victim of a few things so far, but can hopefully break through it giving some continuity.

- He isn't really a key forward in the same mould of Tom Lynch, but we've had to play him like that since he came in because we had no other options. Riewoldt had an old Stewy Loewe and then G-Train and Kosi as a cover. Max has been THE key forward since his first game.

- ACL Rehab and then the ankle injury in Sandy ruined his first season and then made the club wrap him in cotton wool - leaving him as a deep forward and not risking him with any run in the ruck or up the ground at all.

- TERRIBLE ball movement doesn't help because at times when he does lead, we can miss him by a mile or be so slow to make a decision that it doesn't matter.

No doubt he's out of form now, but it doesn't have to stay like that. I'd like us to leave one of Caminiti or Hayes as the deep get out target and just let Max off the leash a bit. Let him have the Jezza Cameron roaming style of play. Can you imagine him floating across packs on the wing and taking those marks down the line instead of trying to compete against 20 blokes in a school yeard style markers up every time.

True but he has also been wrapped in 'cotton wool' and treated like some prince who cant leave his castle. He needs to be freed up and thrown into the ruck for short bursts to get him involved in the game and more used to around the ground contact. Teach him how to win the ball other than huge marks he has nothing else to his game. Thats the only way I see him improving his game, he has got to learn to become more robust and put in full effort for 120 minutes in games.