Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[NoisyMinor]

... insipid disposal that was barely auskick standard.

Much improvement.

****in' white-knight loser.

 

[Captain Paddy]

This season being a dud could be the best thing to happen.

Got the vibe last year that the 'year of exploration' was more successful than Ross or the club planned, which then gave us unrealistic expectation this year based on where our list actually is.

Hard or the club to drop/cut senior guys on the back of last year but now we can really invest in the youth going forward.

Guys like Ross, Jones, Membrey, Paton, Webster etc aren't going to be taking us forward at all. Membrey and Ross have been good contributors over the journey, but also would've been in the top 5-7 paid players at the club, which is where the issues really begin.

 

[StFly]

Yep, I was there too. It's so much more obvious when you're at the game.

Ross needs to speak up about it.

I can't believe they can get away with it.

Went so well last time we did that...

They'll dock us points just for looking in their direction.

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon you mean Anderson (not Touk and Miller). On current form Steele woukd be behind

Melbourne - Trac, Clarry, Viney
Suns - Miller, Anderson, Rowell, Flanders
Dogs - Bont, Libba, Richards, Macrae, Treloar
Giants - Green, Callaghan, Cogs, Ward, Whitfield

By my very quick scan of teams Steele probably “walks” into the roos (purely as an experienced head), West Coast, Hawthorn, Richmond (mostly due to injuries) and maaaaaaaybe Geelong.

Geelong is probably the one ironically. Richmond have Hopper, Taranto and Prestia with about 4 support mids. Dow and Sons types in the VFL.

Geelong haven't got an elite on ball squad. GWS could use him as a replacement for old guys I guess. Bulldogs are developing Sanders and have guys like Garcia who go back to the VFL and get 40 plus playing mids. Also Bazlenko Smith injured. James Harmes looks good there this year too.

Roos wouldn't want him IMO. They have guys like Greenwood in the VFL. They are going for youth. Hawks also have a heap of good on ballers. West Coast probably need someone like him but would risk slowing development.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure, I think if you have to go back more than 12 months and talk about a pretty short period of time you might be clutching at straws.

At the risk of upsetting the cult of Ross this current gamestyle is ALL Ross and the form of 12 months ago when he’d just taken the wheel and seemed to be far less structured and just assessing players strength and weaknesses seems irrelevant to what he wants to do.

I’ve banged on about it a few times but listening to Hardwick talk about exploiting players strengths rather than trying to fix weaknesses is what led to Richmond being Richmond.

Look at our list and we have a pretty solid number of quick, skillful outside runners and a few decent defensive runners as well as pretty good defensive unti. Our midfield sucks and we can’t score but I’m not sure that really on the front 6.

We’re built for quick slingshot, risky corridor footy, we should be playing in games where it’s 15 goals a piece.

Instead Ross wants to make every game a dour slog when we struggle with clearance and contest.

The year is a rite off, we all see that, but the last 2 years and beyond will be a rite off unless Ross changes the gameplan, let the kids loose, play with some flair, enjoy our footy and see what you’ve actually got. I don’t know how you even assess someone like Collard when he’s trying to crumb off packs of 8 defenders with 5 set up behind the pack. Same goes for all the kids really.

It's a balance. Getting kids smashed every week isn't ideal but playing dour is unrewarding and taxing. It feels like we are trying to plug the holes in a leaking hull and every game feels like we are slowly sinking instead of winning.

The list has been able to look okay with a fit list but still looks 8th to 15th even fully fit and old guys are starting tipping over into unreliable. We have to play kids which makes us shitter short term but we have to make sure we don't collapse to the bottom for years as well.

I'm chill now. We need short term pain for a better future. Ross Lyon is a place holder who is at least building a footy department.

 

[D2D3]

I reckon you mean Anderson (not Touk and Miller). On current form Steele woukd be behind

Melbourne - Trac, Clarry, Viney
Suns - Miller, Anderson, Rowell, Flanders
Dogs - Bont, Libba, Richards, Macrae, Treloar
Giants - Green, Callaghan, Cogs, Ward, Whitfield

By my very quick scan of teams Steele probably “walks” into the roos (purely as an experienced head), West Coast, Hawthorn, Richmond (mostly due to injuries) and maaaaaaaybe Geelong.

I'm all for doom posting atm because we are awful but Steele is comfortably ahead of a lot of that list on current form (and far ahead of Clarry, Viney, Macrae, Ward and Callahan) lets at least be real. Whitfeild and Flanders also aren't pure midfielders

I agree with the thesis we need far more midfeilder support than just Steele exactly

 

[beside the seaside]

And the holding of max king is beyond a joke. Umpires can f*ck off too.

It's like they think it's they pay him one or two frees then they don't have to pay any more.

 

[StPiper]

Was that when Sincs was bursting from a centre clearance looking at our 203cm forward leading at him … Sincs pass is headed straight for the big full forward’s chest….

Only to have a HBF come HFF running back into Max’s space & drop a one handed marking attempt?

Hmmmm…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who was that?

 

[Mikevk123]

B- B.Paton D.Howard C.Wilkie
HB- J.Sinclair J.Battle NWM
C- B.Hill M.Windhager M.Wood
HF- D.Wilson C.Sharman L.Henry
F- T.Membrey M.King M.Phillipou
FOLL- R.Marshall M.Owens J.Steele
I/C- R.Bonner, A.Caminiti, P.Dow, L.Stocker
Sub- H.Garcia

 

[Pardon me]

Well that was putrid.
Luckily Freo couldn’t hit the broad side of an outhouse or I could add embarrassing.

Marshall is a beast, ruck-rover doing all the hit outs and also our best mid by the length of the Nepean hwy.

For all those advocating this is a coach and/or gameplan issue I have to disagree.
Our skills, decision making and development for decades has been abysmal with last night just another chapter.
The kids asked me three times to change the channel before they gave up and went off for other forms of entertainment - they didn’t even make half time.
Saying that, Owens has 2 new young fans and a 3 goal return is nothing to sneeze at.

Other than those 2 mentioned Windy and Hammer can hold their heads up but the rest really need to lift.

Edit: I was remiss in not mentioning Battle. He was everywhere, in fact it’s tough to be too harsh on our entire back 6 because as soon as we turn the ball over - usually through a poor decision or bad skill error - they are horribly out of position and get torched.

Max tried hard, I will give him that. Props to him for taking the feedback on and having a crack. Play like that every week and the criticism will stop.

 

[Miha]

B- B.Paton D.Howard C.Wilkie
HB- J.Sinclair J.Battle NWM
C- B.Hill M.Windhager M.Wood
HF- D.Wilson C.Sharman L.Henry
F- T.Membrey M.King M.Phillipou
FOLL- R.Marshall M.Owens J.Steele
I/C- R.Bonner, A.Caminiti, P.Dow, L.Stocker
Sub- H.Garcia

I see Owens in the midfield. I like

 

[D2D3]

I see Owens in the midfield. I like

Thats's to much creativity Ross will never go for it

 

[Saint12]

Who was that?

Paton from memory

 

[phantom13]

I'm all for doom posting atm because we are awful but Steele is comfortably ahead of a lot of that list on current form (and far ahead of Clarry, Viney, Macrae, Ward and Callahan) lets at least be real. Whitfeild and Flanders also aren't pure midfielders

I agree with the thesis we need far more midfeilder support than just Steele exactly

Absolutely not ahead of Clarry, Viney or Macrae. He had one more touch than Callaghan yesterday but Callaghan’s last month has been better. Whitfield maybe plays more wing but Flanders is a mid.

Say he’s injured or whatever but he’s playing like busted ass

 

[phantom13]

It's a balance. Getting kids smashed every week isn't ideal but playing dour is unrewarding and taxing. It feels like we are trying to plug the holes in a leaking hull and every game feels like we are slowly sinking instead of winning.

The list has been able to look okay with a fit list but still looks 8th to 15th even fully fit and old guys are starting tipping over into unreliable. We have to play kids which makes us shitter short term but we have to make sure we don't collapse to the bottom for years as well.

I'm chill now. We need short term pain for a better future. Ross Lyon is a place holder who is at least building a footy department.

There’s really nothing to suggest that the kids would be smashed.

I think the balance is now more about gamestyle. If we’re gonna keep playing this lockdown 8 goals a game shit then play all the kids, they’re not gonna get blown out cause it’s so defensive and yuck that no one scores.

If we’re gonna try to be competitive and mini rebuild then the gamestyle has to change. Use the weapons don’t waste them playing completely defensive don’t score footy.

 

[malevu]

Those who are looking at the silver lining around our current form in terms of a good upcoming draft hand need to take note. I just dusted off my crystal ball and discovered this.

Incredibly, the AFL gift us the first four picks in this year's draft.
The outcome is this.
Pick 1. We bypass the next Harley Reid in favor of a beige half forward flanker based on the recommendation of Chris Pelchen. Apparently his mum reckons he's a good lad too.
Pick 2. We pick a close relative of Dangerfield only to find out later that he's related to Rodney not Paddy.
Pick 3. Surprisingly, we actually pick a gun mid only to find out he's got previously undiagnosed Tourette's Syndrome. He keeps getting suspended for telling the umpires to fk off.
Pick 4. We finally get one right and pick a once in a generation mid. Ironically, he's the younger brother of Petracca. Unfortunately, he does his ACL in the preseason and then gets an infected knee. Eventually they have to amputate his leg.

Actually, our picks dropped back to 5-8 because the Dogs had four father-son picks.

Anyway, apparently we at least get a few decent types in the Rookie draft. They regularly make out top 10 in our B and F.

 

[Teflon]

True. Steele is a re-active/defensive mid.. he can rack up big tackle numbers because he doesn’t win the ball first..

Our real problem is basically we don’t have a midfield of 4-5 quality mids.. we have no chance playing 1 quality mid(Steele) against 4-5 most sides have…

All of our defensive issues / forward entries issues can be solved by fixing the midfield problem, even if we just break even..

So I’d rather play the kids, draft / trade for 3-4 high potential mids then go again next year.. beats finishing 9/10th and be in no man’s land again..

Great post nailed it
Starts in middle

 

[sauce_head]

was at the game
This is fckn criminal and we say nothing
C Scott would be driving to AFL HQ
King gets mauled weekly

The irony of Scott complaining about umpires when they benefited from the biggest free kick cheat ever, in Selwood, and Hawkins is allowed to push two handed in the back on every forward 50 ruck contest is insane!

We deserved to lose v the Dockers by many more than we did though. So fortunately the umpiring didn’t cost us.

 

[Plugger35]

It's going to be a real struggle to get through the rest of the season now that finals have definitely been ruled out and with how badly we are playing. I also wouldn't be surprised if the effort from our players drops off too now that they don't have the carrot of finals to motivate them like they did last year so we might get even worse if that happens and we are bad enough to watch now.

At least there are some other sports events coming up to focus on like the T20 World Cup, the Tour de France and the Olympics.

 

[Saint Watto]

It’s hard enough watching the 3 hours of the broadcast at the moment.

But the weeklong negative stuff in the media and social media just acts to drain every last bit of enjoyment from your life.

I can’t avoid the disappointment but I can attempt to limit the ongoing depression that flows from the reading of opinions whether they be from reporters, journalists, shock jocks, Saints supporters or opposition supporters.

Will keep watching the games, but will try to limit between game internetting of football content.

Stay safe and sane everybody

Well put there Doc.

For us long time.....rusted on....welded on....sprayed on supporters.....it gets very tough to swallow.

For all us passionate Saints people.......the stabs to the heart just keep on coming.

I find the most effective thing after a loss is to tune out of all footy media till about Wednesday........even here I come in less.

I'm in my Saints "doom loop"

It does wonders for your psyche.........as at the end of the day..."cliche alert"....there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.

So there's no point getting wound up about it.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

WHAT WAS THAT SOLDIER.....WE DON'T SHOW OFF BY KICKING GOALS AT STKILDA.
DROP AND GIVE ME 10.

Banished to half back

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I've been an enthusiastic supporter of Lyon's return, and I am a patient man. Losing games I cam deal with,

But watching us play, the whole team looks like it's going through the motions and I can't understand it. Steele looks like an emotional hostage, not one player seems prepared to take the game on, they wander about chaperoning oppo players and looking for cheapies, fumbling marks and kicking carelessly. This cannot be a single player issue, but Ross is no mug so I cannot fathom how it is still this bad.

If its not Ratts,
and it's not the players,
And it's not Ross,
And it's not the list manager,
And it's not the president,
WTF is it?

It’s us. We the supporters are bad luck

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

It’s hard enough watching the 3 hours of the broadcast at the moment.

But the weeklong negative stuff in the media and social media just acts to drain every last bit of enjoyment from your life.

I can’t avoid the disappointment but I can attempt to limit the ongoing depression that flows from the reading of opinions whether they be from reporters, journalists, shock jocks, Saints supporters or opposition supporters.

Will keep watching the games, but will try to limit between game internetting of football content.

Stay safe and sane everybody

Take care doc. Sometimes we let this sport affect us too much.

 

[Saints TV]

Lyon gets asked about the connection between the midfielders and forwards and how the absence of Membrey and Higgins is contributing to our lack of goals and his response was along the lines of ‘that wasn’t our issue today, what were we 45 points at half time? We left a lot on the table.’

Is that not the most bizarre answer? Am I misunderstanding him? Our ‘connection’ is broken. We are terrible going inside 50, probably one of the worst in the league. How can he say that with a straight face? We get it in there a fair bit but it most definitely IS the issue, and that’s the case most weeks.

Bruh we were 47 points at 3/4 time and 55 at full time - c'mon Ross

 

[Saints43]

Just a reminder how much better we used to be under Ken Sheldon, our handball and kicking skills were on point back then.




Why did we sack him?

Bloke had one of the best lists in the history of the club and won one final. Pathetic.