Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[StCicatriz]

Not sure, I think if you have to go back more than 12 months and talk about a pretty short period of time you might be clutching at straws.

At the risk of upsetting the cult of Ross this current gamestyle is ALL Ross and the form of 12 months ago when he’d just taken the wheel and seemed to be far less structured and just assessing players strength and weaknesses seems irrelevant to what he wants to do.

I’ve banged on about it a few times but listening to Hardwick talk about exploiting players strengths rather than trying to fix weaknesses is what led to Richmond being Richmond.

Look at our list and we have a pretty solid number of quick, skillful outside runners and a few decent defensive runners as well as pretty good defensive unti. Our midfield sucks and we can’t score but I’m not sure that really on the front 6.

We’re built for quick slingshot, risky corridor footy, we should be playing in games where it’s 15 goals a piece.

Instead Ross wants to make every game a dour slog when we struggle with clearance and contest.

The year is a rite off, we all see that, but the last 2 years and beyond will be a rite off unless Ross changes the gameplan, let the kids loose, play with some flair, enjoy our footy and see what you’ve actually got. I don’t know how you even assess someone like Collard when he’s trying to crumb off packs of 8 defenders with 5 set up behind the pack. Same goes for all the kids really.

This is ridiculous.... the form was there. I'm not sure why you won't acknowledge it.

I'm not defending Ross either. Not defending the current plight.

I'm merely stating they had showed what was capable. You can't argue against something that actually happened.

Now you can discount it and see well it was along time ago but you atleast have to acknowledge it occurred.

So did it happen or not?

 

[Desperate saint]

After sleeping on last night’s result, all I will say is that Ross isn’t the undisputed reason we are playing the way we are - but he isn’t immune to criticism.

We are not a good football team at the moment, and playing finals last year has muddied the waters for most fans. We overachieved last year, and with such an even competition, the slightest bit of regression will see teams finish in the bottom five.

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

Correct

 

[Teflon]

I see this comment a fair bit, but Nas, Bonner, Hill and Sinclair in particular have a licence to show as much flair as they can.

Agree
It’s hard to be show creative flair when all you’re doing is reacting to opponents winning the ball in front of you !

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I am literally stunned at how bad we are playing, we are getting worse by the week despite getting some better players back.

I hope we are now trying to lose to get better draft picks because if we are then tonight was a raging success.

If we were trying to win tonight then you could have fooled me, we are carrying so many passengers that we could replace Bonza.

I don’t think we’re a side that can be expected to improve when our “best” players come back. Our second tier depth is a similar level of performance which means we don’t get worse with injury but we also don’t get much better when they come back

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Between the lines yeah. Also thought it was interesting right at the end that he said Pou was happy to stay in the 2's but they wanted him in the team to play midfield time. s**t decision, we cannot afford to carry Pou in the middle right now without Crouch. Our midfield is already our weakest point, adding Pou who is still learning to that is just shite. He's shown an aerial presence and forward craft somewhat, but as a mid he is still very, very raw.

Bank a top 6 pick, trade or draft a mid and see if we can't poach a mid FA as well. It's Steele and then a big drop off at the minute.

Pou needs to have a nice month of footy at sandy where he can dominate. Play pure mid and feel and look like a beast

 

[Miha]

Pou needs to have a nice month of footy at sandy where he can dominate. Play pure mid and feel and look like a beast

Agreed

 

[phantom13]

This is ridiculous.... the form was there. I'm not sure why you won't acknowledge it.

I'm not defending Ross either. Not defending the current plight.

I'm merely stating they had showed what was capable. You can't argue against something that actually happened.

Now you can discount it and see well it was along time ago but you atleast have to acknowledge it occurred.

So did it happen or not?

Lol what? I never said it wasn’t, I’m just making the point that it’s about as relevant as form from 40 years ago at this point.

 

[Saintbloke]

Pou needs to have a nice month of footy at sandy where he can dominate. Play pure mid and feel and look like a beast

He doesn't seem to have a strong core- easily gets bumped off the contest for taller player, and too slow off the mark for a mid. He is a HF flanker if anything- Lyon just needs to leave him there to learn the position if he gets senior games

 

[EddieMurphy]

This is ridiculous.... the form was there. I'm not sure why you won't acknowledge it.

I'm not defending Ross either. Not defending the current plight.

I'm merely stating they had showed what was capable. You can't argue against something that actually happened.

Now you can discount it and see well it was along time ago but you atleast have to acknowledge it occurred.

So did it happen or not?

List is 90% the same.

 

[Saints43]

Great way to get the players on your side. It’s no wonder they don’t believe in themselves.

They could stick their heads over the ball and see if that gives them some belief.

 

[MUFASA12]

at the moment Steele is averaging 25.5 possessions a game (career avg is 23.4), tackles 8.2 (7.1), clearances 5.9 (4.5)


Steele ain’t the problem.

Doing the bare minimum by his supposed standards with those stats, not one possession had an ounce of leadership attached to it

 

[busso_mick]

Personally, I believe that players make coaches and at the moment our list is vastly under skilled. AFL is a results-based business, so I looked into the current coaching results of Ross Lyon (at Saints) V John Longmire.

Lyon - win rate of 62.3% (Home and Away), 45.8% (Finals).
Longmire - win rate of 64.1% (H+A), 48.0% (F).

Longmire shades Lyon in both and is currently coaching the top of the ladder Swans.

Longmire has at his disposal 3 absolute midfield guns in Warner, Heeney and Gulden, all probably in the top 10 in the competition. The closest we have is Steele.

Comparisons can be subjective, but how would we be playing if we had access to those 3 Swans? Conversely how good would Longmire be going with our list? We are miles off at the moment and wringing your hands about Lyon is fairly futile.

As far as our skills go, they are something that you predominantly possess when you are drafted. Expecting our coaches to turn inferior skills into a team of one touch wonders is just not going to happen, IMO. We definitely need to improve our list if we are to progress into contenders.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Huge win by Sandy ... 110pts

 

[g_TRAIN]

For now my enjoyment as a supporter comes down to if I have faith in the current coaching and high performance regime or not.

If I do then I can enjoy watching our kids develop and I can be optimistic about our future despite the losses.

If I don't then its a sick feeling. I'm somewhere in the middle now and need some re-assurance.

Truth is a lot of developing teams go through similar patches to this and then turn it around the next year so that's what I'm hoping for. (Example Melbourne 2020 to 2021)

 

[denisp]

5 seasons off creating a decent midfield - Lyon in for the long haul - doubtful any free agent will choose us atm - Lyon loves the club he’ll do what he can with the right people - Dalrymple is a good start

 

[Saint Shags]

I've seen it all now.
Steele is the problem. We be better off not having him

I'm certain that there would be plenty of clubs that would love to have a dual AA mid at their club. And if you think differently you have no idea about footy at all.

Hell part of me hopes we do the stupid. It would be St Kilda to a tee.

 

[Leigh58]

I said it Friday and I’ll say it again. Whoever made the decision to play Lance Collard must have been stoned.

They either haven’t watched the past few VFL games or were made to make the woke decision to play him because it’s Sir Doug Nicholls round.

Hope he becomes a star but he isn’t even close to being ready for AFL. I felt sorry for him.

Euro - Woke

Hi Jack,
I too can't understand selection criteria. I thought Collard only had limited possessions against the Hawks and made an error which cost Sandy the game right at the death.
Then he is REWARDED with being selected for the following match, an indigenous match. Maybe it's just me being old fashioned but what sort of consequential message does that send him, other players and supporters?
Is the world going crazy?

 

[Cairnsman]

Pou needs to have a nice month of footy at sandy where he can dominate. Play pure mid and feel and look like a beast

I'm always curios why fans think this is a real thing of improving skills in elite sport?

Certainly beneficial if it's condition that a player needs but it would certainly signal a mental fragility and lack of resilience if a supposed champion of the future gets his kicks out of beating up on weaker opponents. Most elite minded sports people look to hone their skills against the best.

Pou sells himself as a champion of the future and elite minded so I couldn't imagine he'll feel like a "beast" at VFL level as it is a woefully poor standard comp.

But here's what might be an interesting space to watch for the remainder of the season, and that is some times players get their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities and that's what we don't know yet.

 

[The Cobra]

Personally, I believe that players make coaches and at the moment our list is vastly under skilled. AFL is a results-based business, so I looked into the current coaching results of Ross Lyon (at Saints) V John Longmire.

Lyon - win rate of 62.3% (Home and Away), 45.8% (Finals).
Longmire - win rate of 64.1% (H+A), 48.0% (F).

Longmire shades Lyon in both and is currently coaching the top of the ladder Swans.

Longmire has at his disposal 3 absolute midfield guns in Warner, Heeney and Gulden, all probably in the top 10 in the competition. The closest we have is Steele.

Comparisons can be subjective, but how would we be playing if we had access to those 3 Swans? Conversely how good would Longmire be going with our list? We are miles off at the moment and wringing your hands about Lyon is fairly futile.

As far as our skills go, they are something that you predominantly possess when you are drafted. Expecting our coaches to turn inferior skills into a team of one touch wonders is just not going to happen, IMO. We definitely need to improve our list if we are to progress into contenders.

The great Allan Jeans -“good players make good coaches”!

 

[TheJackal]

I can't see anything that Jones gives us, even as a sub, that Garcia couldn't.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Who was that?

Paton


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DougalHoward]

I can't see anything that Jones gives us, even as a sub, that Garcia couldn't.

Jones was terrible hope he doesn't get another game

 

[Saintbloke]

5 seasons off creating a decent midfield - Lyon in for the long haul - doubtful any free agent will choose us atm - Lyon loves the club he’ll do what he can with the right people - Dalrymple is a good start

I don't reckon Lyon will stay 5 years

 

[Mat Mann]

Well I think Sharmy may be hard pressed to get another run in the firsts.
Collard should get at least another week.
Pato probably same as Sharmy but will probably get another week.
Poo is on the verge of a good game just needs to delete everything the coaches have told him and play his natural game.
Jones to the starting 22.

of Mentone Old Boys

 

[puntking]

Just off-topic, but if port get done by the Hawks, I’ll be ringing that flog Kane corns every time he is live on air