Review Round 14, 2018 - Brisbane Lions vs. GWS

[jackess]

No surprises with the coaches votes although Whitfield must have got 5 from one coach and 0 from the other.

BRISBANE v GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
8 Luke Hodge (BL)
8 Josh Kelly (GWS)
5 Lachie Whitfield (GWS)
3 Daniel Rich (BL)
3 Stephen Coniglio (GWS)
2 Dylan Shiel (GWS)
1 Hugh McCluggage (BL)

 

[DanT7]

Finding the red card debate interesting. Bit of a tough one to design a tribunal for.

On one hand, the AFL easily have a big enough payroll to have an on-call system. Either the Match Review Officer or a tribunal panel or some other similar committee (the AFL have enough of them). This happens, they discuss off-field, and determine whether there's sufficient to warrant taking the player off. 5 minutes later, the umpires could be informed that at the next stop in play, Cameron is to leave the field on a red-card.

Could be in play for any call where an opposition player has been removed from the game as a result of a play deemed severe and reckless/intentional by the panel.

Of course, then we have another panel, making odd calls, and it won't be long before the line in the sand moves. One called accidental on-field but intentional after the fact. Or the other way around. New footage comes to light. A player was thought out injured, but after half-time comes back (not for HIA, but for other things). Imbalance of removing a top line player for sins against a fringe player, or the imbalance of a marginally talented sniper taking out an opposition star.

It's uneven now, and it could be just as uneven under a red card system. Tough one to know.

Rather than a red card we implement a free throw (actually, kick) type penalty. 3 shots at goal from 30m. Awarded after significant reportable offence that incurs injury.

 

[DanT7]

Injury due to reportable offence should be an immediate 200m free kick.
If sustained in the first half, and the affected player cannot return, then an emergency is allowed to suit up. (Not the sub at a whim s**t they trialled). We should have been able to replace Andrews on the day, rather than red card Cameron. I think a send off rule is too hard, particularly when it relies on the discretionary decision making abilities of umpires. They can't adjudicate on correct disposal properly, it would unfairly cost games, and they can't be allowed or expected to be judge, jury and executioner, otherwise there would be no referral for reports.

I like the idea of subbing a player who is injured from a reported offence.

 

[Dalions]

I like the idea of subbing a player who is injured from a reported offence.

I just think that if someone suffers concussion and can’t continue they can be subbed!
Injuries, too bad so sad!
Just concussion.

 

[M Malice]

I would be for a red card in our game but only for the most severe of cases, while the player is down a video review is conducted (plenty of time in these type of incidents).

Examples of a send off to me would be- Hall > Staker. Bugg > Mills. Jonas > Gaff. Cameron > Andrews.

IMO you would only see one every year or two. The player sent off can be replaced on field they just play short on the bench.

 

[kenberger]

Like the idea of a penalty applied to the next game against the same club and like the idea of an emergency being subbed in for concussion injuries no matter the cause. Trying to play judge during games though will just add to supporter frustration.

This one is pretty clear cut but a lot of murky water most of the time

 

[Footballator]

Just give the guy a lengthy holiday. Red cards are another thing for the umps to make poor decisions on and they might have zones as well and head counts etc who knows. Leave the monkeys with the bunch of bananas they already struggle with. Player welfare and head knocks are very concerning. Rub him out for a a long time and send a clear message. That incident and ones like change the momentum of the game and rarely does it advantage the team that loses the player. s**t scenario all around and I hope Andrews makes a good recovery and gets well soon.

 

[Gadzorks]

Cutler's game against Essendon was diabolically bad, both with and without the ball, but he was pretty solid on Saturday, closer to what he produced in some of the earlier games (Suns, Hawks). Good to see him bounce back.

Really? An actual comment on the game. Wow, novel concept this week.
Edit my winking emoji disappeared

 

[Skoob]

I just think that if someone suffers concussion and can’t continue they can be subbed!
Injuries, too bad so sad!
Just concussion.

So if Cameron had slid in and snapped Harris' leg, you'd be okay with that?

 

[Skoob]

Geez, it's going to be hard to kick some of the goals from outside the Gabba.

Doesn't matter if the mark is set on Main Rd, you can take the kick from wherever you like. It just allows for any size ground. A kick in your square is the intention.

 

[Dalions]

So if Cameron had slid in and snapped Harris' leg, you'd be okay with that?

Wrong choice of words.
Sub for concussion only!

 

[carnthemlions]

Just give the guy a lengthy holiday. Red cards are another thing for the umps to make poor decisions on and they might have zones as well and head counts etc who knows. Leave the monkeys with the bunch of bananas they already struggle with. Player welfare and head knocks are very concerning. Rub him out for a a long time and send a clear message. That incident and ones like change the momentum of the game and rarely does it advantage the team that loses the player. s**t scenario all around and I hope Andrews makes a good recovery and gets well soon.

Whenever red cards are raised people go on about the potential for umpire error. I don't get it. Of course that would be a risk, but how is it worse than the alternative? There's a reason virtually all team sports of this nature have card systems, send-off rules or just allow officials to eject players at their discretion.

 

[Skoob]

Wrong choice of words.
Sub for concussion only!

Oh, I knew what you meant, but my point is if an opponent unfairly injures someone, they should be able to be subbed, not just for concussion.

 

[Dalions]

Oh, I knew what you meant, but my point is if an opponent unfairly injures someone, they should be able to be subbed, not just for concussion.

Putting the onus back on the umpires to make an on field call on whether the injury is as a result of an unfair act I think is the problem there.
Where as with concussion, fair or unfair. I think we should have a sub rule in place.

 

[Skoob]

Putting the onus back on the umpires to make an on field call on whether the injury is as a result of an unfair act I think is the problem there.
Where as with concussion, fair or unfair. I think we should have a sub rule in place.

That's why I nominated a reportable offence. They already make those decisions.

 

[martinson]

That's why I nominated a reportable offence. They already make those decisions.

Really the card system works in every other brand of football and what you're trying to do is stamp out the dog acts of which Exhibit A is what we saw on Saturday.

The most unedifying aspect of the whole episode are the lamebrain excuses made ever since . It was a blatant and brutal attack on a guy's head and it seemed to me that Cameron saw an opportunity to inflict some damage and unfortunately for both players it just panned out a lot worse than what he anticipated.

Any attempt to spin it any other way is to me fairly pathetic

 

[Dylan12]

 

[DanT7]

I would be for a red card in our game but only for the most severe of cases, while the player is down a video review is conducted (plenty of time in these type of incidents).

Examples of a send off to me would be- Hall > Staker. Bugg > Mills. Jonas > Gaff. Cameron > Andrews.

IMO you would only see one every year or two. The player sent off can be replaced on field they just play short on the bench.

May > Martin?

 

[Dylan12]

Bit of heat came on Coach Fagan by Craig Hutchinson saying that he lacks tactical nous and desperately requires a master tactician in the box and further that the AFL industry is way too light on the Lions and is not the man to lead us into the finals given his 6 wins out of 35 games coached.

Personally, I agree with the former that he is in desperate need of a tactician as the evidence regularly suggests that he is reactive, although I disagree that he will not be the man to lead us to finals.

Just an odd time for Hutchy to raise this given we were one player short (arguably our best and most important player) early in the game coupled with Gardiner's long stint on the sidelines and the shuffling of the decks which resulted.

 

[Harris Specter]

I had to look up who Craig Hutchinson was.

Clearly another Victorian journalist with not much going on in the head.

 

[jackess]

The best tactics in the world won’t be much help without the players good enough to execute them.

 

[Dodongo]

Bit of heat came on Coach Fagan by Craig Hutchinson saying that he lacks tactical nous and desperately requires a master tactician in the box and further that the AFL industry is way too light on the Lions and is not the man to lead us into the finals given his 6 wins out of 35 games coached.

Personally, I agree with the former that he is in desperate need of a tactician as the evidence regularly suggests that he is reactive, although I disagree that he will not be the man to lead us to finals.

Just an odd time for Hutchy to raise this given we were one player short (arguably our best and most important player) early in the game coupled with Gardiner's long stint on the sidelines and the shuffling of the decks which resulted.

Dodongo remembers Hutchy saying the same thing about everyone being light on us two weeks ago. He has had that opinion for a while.

 

[lionraven]

Bit of heat came on Coach Fagan by Craig Hutchinson saying that he lacks tactical nous and desperately requires a master tactician in the box and further that the AFL industry is way too light on the Lions and is not the man to lead us into the finals given his 6 wins out of 35 games coached.

Personally, I agree with the former that he is in desperate need of a tactician as the evidence regularly suggests that he is reactive, although I disagree that he will not be the man to lead us to finals.

Just an odd time for Hutchy to raise this given we were one player short (arguably our best and most important player) early in the game coupled with Gardiner's long stint on the sidelines and the shuffling of the decks which resulted.

You need players capable of executing tactics before you can comment on a coach's ability for tactical change. Leppa is a brilliant tactician. Look at how he has gotten Rance, Dusty, Reiwoldt with a bunch of no-namers and middle of the road players to execute one of the best defensive structures in the AFL that has been able to shut down all different styles of opposition for two years now. He was s**t at the Lions because our players were young/unskilled and struggled to implement 2/3 different game plan changes per week and Leppa got tarred with the 'crazy Leppa' tag. We arent let down by tactics but rather execution. 1st quarter against GWS - we have equal number of inside 50s but they score 2 goals more because of defensive 50 turnovers (self inflicted) whereas we miss open targets in our 50 or drop marks - so they get up by 12. Then second quarter final 2 minutes - down by 12 - Witherdens forward 50 entry falls 2m short and into a Giants players hands - they quickly counterattack and goal. Instead of being only 6 down at HT we go down by 4 goals. Bombers game - we generate so many chances 30m out at easy angles and still kick behinds. We kick those and we win. Thats not a tactical issue - thats a player execution issue. Same with Richo at the Saints. What can Richo do if his gameplan generates all these shots by Mav Weller has the yips and kicks 1.5 instead of 5.1?

 

[Viceregal]

Hypothetically speaking, if a player was accidentally do to umpire what Cameron did to Andrews would they still play out the rest of the game (or even if the umpire took the Staker role to a current player's Hall hit)?

 

[Jivlain]

Hypothetically speaking, if a player was accidentally do to umpire what Cameron did to Andrews would they still play out the rest of the game (or even if the umpire took the Staker role to a current player's Hall hit)?

There's an emergency umpire who steps in in such situations (or rather more commonly, when one of the regular umpires does a hammy or something).

Someone actually compiled a list!

... or if you're asking what would happen if a player actually deliberately did a Hall punch on an umpire, would they continue the game - I mean, maybe after the police had removed the player from the field in the backseat of a paddy wagon.