Autopsy Round 14 - Saints vs Bulldogs

[Diehard Saint]

11 players recycled. If you want to know why we have no passion for the jumper or culture. That's it.

They don’t have to all “love the jumper” - I’m not sure that’s as important to players anymore as it used to be but surely, as professional sportsmen, they want to win?

 

[The Punter]

The club outright said they have cut hard and a good year will be dependent on our personnel hitting the park.

Currently.

Max King 0 games. Dougal Howard 3 games. Alice Tauru 0 games Zaine Cordy 0 games.

Last night the dogs had 3 players over 200cms, we had Marshall.
They had 8 over 190 but under 200 we had 7. They monstered us in the air. (Think I counted right). It’s been the same story since we beat port. Annihilated by the big guys every week.

Mattaes played 4 games all year and the last one he was off in the first 5 minutes. We haven’t really seen him get to go properly onball as he trained. He isn’t the messiah but Christ he helps with decision making and skills around the ground and he is a big guy.

Of those 5 I’ve mentioned, 3 would be best 18 locks. Tauru id have been hoping is pencilled into the 22 by the end of the year. So that’s 4 guys we would need to be dependent on.

3rd youngest list, but specifically the David king comment that we look like kids compared to the general size of the other sides in pre season. That result last night is in no way out of the ordinary lined up against any of the bottom 6 sides. But our guys are pushed under or over the ball too many times.

It’s a timing thing, they need a summer maybe 2.

Talent wise, don’t think anyone thought we would be contending. We sat 3-1 after including rolling the Cats and port in port. We have a lot of talent. TDK doesn’t change this result on his own. But we would look a hell of alot better with him in that side. We need genuine blue chip mid kids in the draft alongside smart recruiting this offseason.

I think that is all fair comment, but it has little to do with the Doggies (once again) walking it between the arcs.

Peak Hudghton wouldn't have been able to deal with some of the space afforded mids and leading space afforded forwards last night.

 

[saint_]

With a dogshit midfield and a undersized defence, Ross Lyon is sort of having to play a more defensive style of gameplan. I know that is his usual mantra, but our best key position player and only quality one is Wilkie at 191cm. The team tends to flood back due to our lack of height down there which means our forward structure is gone. It's incredible the neglect in not drafting midfielders for the last 10 or so years. I feel like the good sides keep propping key parts of the ground. Like when we moved on Carlisle, a good side would have replaced him straight away, we as a club seem to pray and hope something sticks.

 

[The Punter]

They don’t have to all “love the jumper” - I’m not sure that’s as important to players anymore as it used to be but surely, as professional sportsmen, they want to win?

They should show some indication they don't like being embarrassed.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He was really bad last night. Either signed a contract and instantly turned to shit or feeling the pressure after telling teammates that he's leaving.

Agree. His head was nowhere near where it neeed to be. I’d go so far as to say that was his worst game for us.

He is obviously just completely all over the show with this contract.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Average age last night:

Saints : 26.3
WB : 25.6


I don't get the hype of us being the 3rd youngest list and all this potential when the 23 last night was older and more experienced than the dogs 23.


and then you've got our younger players trying to develop in that shit show at sandy.

It’s not hype, just a fact. Also not an excuse before the doomsayers try and paint that comment as rOsE CoLoUrEd GLasSeS.

The fact also is, the majority of our elders are shit - the best teams older players are usually still quite good to great to stay in the best 22.

 

[phantom13]

With a dogshit midfield and a undersized defence, Ross Lyon is sort of having to play a more defensive style of gameplan. I know that is his usual mantra, but our best key position player and only quality one is Wilkie at 191cm. The team tends to flood back due to our lack of height down there which means our forward structure is gone. It's incredible the neglect in not drafting midfielders for the last 10 or so years. I feel like the good sides keep propping key parts of the ground. Like when we moved on Carlisle, a good side would have replaced him straight away, we as a club seem to pray and hope something sticks.

We lost by 12 goals and gave up about 785 inside 50s.

His defensive gameplan isn’t working. If we’re gonna lose by 10+ goals I’d rather we try some attacking shit and **** it up

 

[Diehard Saint]

Part of the most dissapointing part of last night.

Hill
Wood
Steele
Butler

Jones.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Agree. His head was nowhere near where it neeed to be. I’d go so far as to say that was his worst game for us.

He is obviously just completely all over the show with this contract.

Has been quite average this year imo. His best is clearly incredible, but until he rids his game of the really Hollywood trash like 6m kicks off his pinky toe at a 160° angle he’ll keep giving up multiple goals a game.

 

[botts]

The AFL are giving a lot of interstate teams' handouts, and the bigger Melbourne based clubs crash the system to top up talent without any real impact to their salary cap.

Well, welcome. The only other club in our position is north. Wait, the afl gave them 2 second round picks, 2 thirds and 5 first round picks. Guess they only want us not to succeed

 

[Saintbloke]

The endless list of excuses at St Kilda for us failing, wears thin with long-term supporters. Last night was rubbish as was the previous loss to them, the loss to WCE was even more rubbish, and more alarming for us as a club. We have little leadership, and a bunch of senior players who turn it on when they feel like it, and didn't turn up last night, and game plans that can easily be picked through by better coaches. Pity help the young guys.

 

[Cro19]

I'm pretty sure your numbers are incorrect.

Saints averaged 25y, 185d (25.5) against Melbourne and only made 2 changes. Average cannot have been over 26.

The two guys we brought in added 17 years to our side from the Dees game. It's one thing for the club to claim we are a young team but wheeling out this many old dudes is ridiculous.

 

[John2010362340]

Went last night, can't get to a lot of games but thought i'd make an effort for who i think is one of our best ever players in Sincs.

Some takeaways.

Umpires: When you are already up against it against a team with superior talent, it's not why we lost, but when we were actually up and about in the first 45 minutes they just continually sucked the life out of the game.

Senior Players: Apart from Sinclair and Wilkie, the 25's and over are just so inconsistent and that's why we're struggling in games. They should be the constant, but they're the ones we don't know what we will get from them. For the most part the under 23's have been pretty consistent all season.

Rebuild: I'm optimistic with what we're doing, I'm confident Nas is staying Pou is staying and Bergman and TDK are coming. trade out some players to get some more draft capital in, i only see Ro as the only realistic option to trade out to get a decent pick in.

All in all losing by that margin twice in the same year isn't ideal, but the Bulldogs have so much talent, it is crazy to me that they're not sitting top 4 right now. I'd be surprised if they're not in the last fortnight of the season.

We're on the right track and we will more games throughout the season because we aren't horrible, still think we win 10 games this season which i know it's not what a lot want, but it's just the way it is.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Assuming that our reserves play about to the level expected, I'd go with these changes (I'm assuming Lyon was Lyin about Pou to hide the fact that they sent him out injured and he'll be out for an extended period)

Out: Byrnes, Hill, Carroll, Jones
In: Garcia, Hastie, Heath, Arie

B: Webster, Wilkie, Stocker
HB: Nas, Caminiti, Sinclair
C: Schoenmaker, Macrae, Hall
HF: Higgins, Keeler, Wood
F: Butler, Sharman, Heath

Foll: Marshall, Owens, Windhager
Int: Steele, Hastie, Garcia, Travaglia
Sub: Clark

Emg: Boxshall, Tauru, Collard


How about...once....just once this year, we don't go in undersized? Also, let's try mixing things up (Owens mid, Arie/Hall wing, several tall forwards) from the start of the game rather than with 20 mins to go and 10 goals down?

 

[Saints TV]

Assuming that our reserves play about to the level expected, I'd go with these changes (I'm assuming Lyon was Lyin about Pou to hide the fact that they sent him out injured and he'll be out for an extended period)

Out: Byrnes, Hill, Carroll, Jones
In: Garcia, Hastie, Heath, Arie

B: Webster, Wilkie, Stocker
HB: Nas, Caminiti, Sinclair
C: Schoenmaker, Macrae, Hall
HF: Higgins, Keeler, Wood
F: Butler, Sharman, Heath

Foll: Marshall, Owens, Windhager
Int: Steele, Hastie, Garcia, Travaglia
Sub: Clark

Emg: Boxshall, Tauru, Collard


How about...once....just once this year, we don't go in undersized? Also, let's try mixing things up (Owens mid, Arie/Hall wing, several tall forwards) from the start of the game rather than with 20 mins to go and 10 goals down?

get some excitement going, play the bloody viking.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Agree. His head was nowhere near where it neeed to be. I’d go so far as to say that was his worst game for us.

He is obviously just completely all over the show with this contract.

I agree he was bad but at least he's tries stuff, being there live a couple of his worst turnovers could have been marked but the players pulled out too early (Windy and Hall I think.) Most of the team absolutely shits themselves with ball in hand.

 

[Hayes4PM]

I can see why we are after TDK so heavily now, you either have a dominant midfield group and an average ruckman or an average midfield group and a dominant ruckman to even it up. Ro's workrate after the initial tap and his marking makes him versatile, but his actual ruckwork isn't gonna cut it with this midfield.

I know we always bitch about Hill but deadset, if he can't be more accountable defensively he's got to get dropped. We've got plenty of hard running, agile types now (Nas, Travaglia, Wood, Wilson), I cannot see how he gets a pass so often.

I hope the coaches show some of the efforts that stood out, like the hard running to pressure from the likes of Travaglia (big tackle in our defensive 50 running down West(?)), Jack Higgins (as usual) running just as hard defensively as offensively, almost caused a few turnovers, Windy's run down and follow up with a goal.

Ross' DNA is defensive play first, I hope he slams them for some of the poor defending last night and then picks a few guys you know have the attitude and toe to be hard running defensive players.

Bring back O'Connell after watching his efforts earlier this year, bring back Hastie who has some pace and a bit of a hard edge for a smaller framed lad and bring back Hugh Boxshall over 30 year old journeyman Zak Jones

3

Zak Jones

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.8

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.1

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

3.1

4star

CL

4.9

5star

D

7.0

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.6

4star

CL

1.0

3star

.

Heads on the chopping block for me after that game would be Hill, Jones and Clark. Clark mainly just because he is so slow that defensively he is a liability when opposition rebound on turnover or win a clearance. If he wins a clearance his decision making and ability to buy time and work through traffic is great.

Well that's my rant, I'll review other rants in after this coffee.

 

[Tom12]

Seeing Jones attend CB over Garcia who isn't even playing is shameful.

What are we doing?!!! Middling.

It sucks because we are every chance to go on a fake run with nothing to play for to close out the year (circa 2024) and get a worse pick. It's broken, it doesn't help us in the long term. We're ****ed.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Yeah but you know how when we’re well into a last quarter getting flogged no chance of winning and rtb removes the shackles and we play on and kick with dare?
It’s probably the best we ever look.
Have none of the coaches noticed that?
Maybe pull the move out a bit more often. It’ll certainly surprise the shit out of the oppo. And us supporters.

 

[PJays]

The two guys we brought in added 17 years to our side from the Dees game. It's one thing for the club to claim we are a young team but wheeling out this many old dudes is ridiculous.

View attachment 2341565

Apologies I stand corrected. Will delete post

Time for Jones to give way for Garcia or Boxshall at least.

 

[Tom12]

Positives...sigh.

I like Travaglia alot and he has a future. Keeler has shown plenty over the last 3 games - he has improved this year. That's something. Hall in the midfield? He's clean with the ball. Unlike well, everybody else we've thrown in there.
Windhager fought hard.

That's really it haha.

 

[The Punter]

Not sure where to put this view but I'll just put it here: Boxshall is better than Garcia. Same competitiveness, but Boxshall bigger and a better kick.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Completely agree and it makes sense strategically

Why would the AFL want St Kilda or North etc to be successful it would be a drain on their bottom line if we played a prelim at 70k vs Collingwood being consistently good at 95k

Their commitment to the expansion market is obviously about building fans in non traditional areas and the best way to do that is to feed those teams talent to make them good

There’s no competitive balance in the league because the AFL has an agenda and our place in that agenda is to be the 18th team on the priority list and provide another matchup to maintain the TV rights

Meanwhile they’re driving away traditional fans.

 

[Tom12]

It was a bad loss but I'm content with being bad. I'm sick of finishing between 6-12 every year. If we're not contending then we should be finishing as low as possible and getting a top pick in.

Time to blood the kids and see what we're working with.

I don't think Hugo or Hastie could've played any worse than Zones or Byrnes did tonight.

I am not convinced that we won't finish 10th. That's almost the painful part.

Last 8 weeks of 2024 papered over cracks in a big way, we should've been bottoming out then. And we need to bottom out now.

 

[The Punter]

I am not convinced that we won't finish 10th. That's almost the painful part.

Last 8 weeks of 2024 papered over cracks in a big way, we should've been bottoming out then. And we need to bottom out now.

Need to grab that fourth ninth pick.

#abolishthefathersonandtheacademies